Kreiger's Cutler Fiasco Wrap-up: Belichick's Revenge - The Orange Mane

Agent Orange · 03-04-2009, 04:06 PM

McD's fiasco: Belichick's revenge?
Dave Krieger
The Denver Post
Posted: 03/04/2009 12:30:00 AM MST

The way his best-laid plans have blown up on new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels over the past week, it's almost as if some nefarious rival had a hand in it.

And it's not out of the question that one did. The deal Patriots coach Bill Belichick ended up making for quarterback Matt Cassel was so one-sided — a second-round pick from old pal Scott Pioli in Kansas City for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel — that even Pioli won't talk about it.

The conventional wisdom says Belichick took Pioli's second-round pick (No. 34) instead of the Broncos' first (No. 12) he would have gotten out of the proposed Broncos-Bucs-Patriots three-way deal because the Broncos and Bucs were late to the party.

Maybe, but since when is the author of Spy-gate too honorable to back out of one deal to take a better one?

So it is perhaps worth noting that the day before the Cassel deal was announced, McDaniels, Belichick's former assistant, signed two of Belichick's players — wideout Jabar Gaffney and long snapper Lonie Paxton. In fact, to steal Paxton from the Patriots, McDaniels took the extraordinary step of offering a long snapper a $1 million signing bonus.

Why McDaniels considered this necessary given Mike Leach's immaculate record as the Broncos' long snapper I don't know, but a day later, trade talks involving the two teams blew up in McDaniels' face by going public while Belichick made a different deal.

The 34th pick will cost Belichick considerably less to sign than the 12th would have, leaving him with more cap space for free agents, which is what he was after in the first place. And, somehow, his former assistant has a quarterback crisis on his hands 24 hours after signing two of his guys.

Somewhere, Eric Mangini is having flashbacks.

Since the news became public, McDaniels hasn't covered himself with glory. Although Jay Cutler is taking heat for throwing a snit fit, he postponed meeting with the Broncos not because his feelings were hurt. He postponed meeting with them because he thought they were lying to him.

"They deny everything," he told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. "That's a problem. We know for a fact they tried to trade me."

Even now, there are reports of trade talks with Minnesota and Detroit, although McDaniels stands by his denial.

But listen to McDaniels' comments about Cutler and Cassel to a group of reporters on Feb. 20 at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis, courtesy of my former Rocky Mountain News colleague Jeff Legwold. McDaniels was asked about the two QBs on consecutive questions.

On Cutler: "I think Jay gives you an opportunity to be successful right away, and I think you have to have a competitive quarterback to be able to win at a high level in this league and I don't think I'm saying anything nobody doesn't know. He's going to be a big piece of what we do and it's important, I think, in our system, the system we're going to use, to have a guy like that there.

"I think he'll adapt quick. In the time I spent with him, I think he'll be fine. He's working hard at it; we're hard at it together."

On Cassel: "Here's what Matt Cassel is: Very bright, he's very athletic, strong, accurate arm and he has now a full season of game experience under his belt. And I think we all saw how much that meant to him as the season progressed.

"He is a competitive player, a great person and there's a lot of things about Matt that are very ideal for that position. He's got size and all the rest of it.

"So I was a small part of his success, and he was a big part of my success and I think that whatever challenge Matt Cassel has in front of him, whether that be in New England or happens to be somewhere else, I think he's going to respond to it the same way he responded when he walked in the door in New England, which is to meet it head-on with a great attitude and an incredible work ethic to try and do everything you can to make himself better.

"If that's what you're looking for in an NFL quarterback, you probably got a shot."

The vast difference in tone between these assessments lends credence to the reports that McDaniels wanted to trade Cutler for Cassel. And since he denies that, if you're Cutler, how much credibility do you attach to what he tells you now?

Cutler says he will come back to town next week and try to sort this all out. It's a good move, assuming he's still the Broncos quarterback next week.

Blame him for petulance if you like, but the entire episode is a major stumble right out of the gate for the Broncos' new head coach.

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_11830190

KillerBronco#76 · 03-04-2009, 04:35 PM

im still doubting that we would have given up our 1st to get him im guessing we were offering our 2nd and then the chiefs came in higher with theirs.

Irish Stout · 03-04-2009, 04:54 PM

Kreiger's article articulates what I couldn't - sure Jay wasn't manning up and sorting crap out, but he believed that his bosses were straight up lying to him. It may be a business, but you don't want to work for someone who is not going to be honest in their business dealings...

Ok now i will never post on this again... unless it re-blows up.

chaz · 03-04-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

Kreiger's article articulates what I couldn't - sure Jay wasn't manning up and sorting crap out, but he believed that his bosses were straight up lying to him. It may be a business, but you don't want to work for someone who is not going to be honest in their business dealings...

Ok now i will never post on this again... unless it re-blows up.

This is exactly what I felt but had a hard time articulating as well...it was never the deal itself, it was the lying. Water under the bridge I hope.

ZONA · 03-04-2009, 05:52 PM

Tone this and Tone that. I don't ready anything into that crap at all. Tone.....phsssshhh

Trying to pick at a set of words and trying to find "tone" and all these differences, what a waste.

To me it looked like a coach had good things to say about each guy. If somebody is looking at this and trying to speculate that he like Cassel more then Cutler is an idiot. He may have but that would be because he coached the guy and knows him personally. If you take that out, and look at the words only, you would have no story based on those comments at all.

Gimme a frickin break already.

Tombstone RJ · 03-04-2009, 06:12 PM

So freaking what! So McD has a boner for Cassel, who gives a ratz azz? I said a long time ago (at least I think I said this) that Belichick was schooling McD the hard way.

So McD learns a valuable lesson, good. He's 32 years old and has been given the reigns of a class A organization. He'll learn quickly who his friends are and who he needs to steer clear of.

Los Broncos · 03-04-2009, 06:12 PM

I the heard replay today on the radio, this guy sounds like a complete clown.

Rohirrim · 03-04-2009, 06:39 PM

The 34th pick will cost Belichick considerably less to sign than the 12th would have, leaving him with more cap space for free agents, which is what he was after in the first place.

Yeah. Bellychuck needed all that money to sign BuntaCain and Fred Taylor.

colonelbeef · 03-04-2009, 06:50 PM

But but but but but this is all Cutler's fault

As I have been saying, Cutler was right in being miffed. He could have toned it down a touch, but he was completely misled by his new coach, and fairly publicly. Any one of you would be pissed as well.

*Cue the Shanahan/Cutler bashers with their ad hominem baseless attacks*

slyinky · 03-04-2009, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

The 34th pick will cost Belichick considerably less to sign than the 12th would have, leaving him with more cap space for free agents, which is what he was after in the first place.

Yeah. Bellychuck needed all that money to sign BuntaCain and Fred Taylor.

These reporters that keep saying that Belichick took the 34th pick over the 12th pick and it was because of cap space are idiots. You take the 12th pick and trade it for multiple picks if that is the case.

Popps · 03-04-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slyinky

These reporters that keep saying that Belichick took the 34th pick over the 12th pick and it was because of cap space are idiots. You take the 12th pick and trade it for multiple picks if that is the case.

Well, these guys ****ed up the story 8 ways 'til Sunday, so they've got to come up with something.

So, their answer is... a Hall of Fame coach accepted a #34 instead of a #12 because we signed away their long-snapper.

I can't imagine how many shades of stupid you have to be to buy into anything in that article.

Bronco Yoda · 03-05-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colonelbeef

But but but but but this is all Cutler's fault

As I have been saying, Cutler was right in being miffed. He could have toned it down a touch, but he was completely misled by his new coach, and fairly publicly. Any one of you would be pissed as well.

*Cue the Shanahan/Cutler bashers with their ad hominem baseless attacks*

Did you forget that Cutler asked to be traded even before all this mess went down?

Taco John · 03-05-2009, 01:04 AM

To repost in a more topic appropriate thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

I don't think that the "listening" to the trade offers is the problem that Cutler had over this situation. Cutler was specifically upset about being lied to. The more this story has unravelled, the more clear it's become that he was, in fact, lied to.

Per Kreiger:
He postponed meeting with them because he thought they were lying to him.

"They deny everything," he told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. "That's a problem. We know for a fact they tried to trade me."

Even now, there are reports of trade talks with Minnesota and Detroit, although McDaniels stands by his denial.

Taco John · 03-05-2009, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Yoda

Did you forget that Cutler asked to be traded even before all this mess went down?

That's if you can trust Peter King as a legitimate source of Broncos news.

Any thoughts on what the last Broncos story Peter King was able to be as such?

Keep in mind that not a single local guy has been able to corroborate this story - and they've been digging.

hambone13 · 03-05-2009, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irish Stout

Kreiger's article articulates what I couldn't - sure Jay wasn't manning up and sorting crap out, but he believed that his bosses were straight up lying to him. It may be a business, but you don't want to work for someone who is not going to be honest in their business dealings...

Ok now i will never post on this again... unless it re-blows up.

All I have to say is, after a couple of dark frothy nectars from the Gods, I'd probably be found sneaking in a man hug on ya.....from the front of course ;-) You and I couldn't agree more.....

hambone13 · 03-05-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZONA

Tone this and Tone that. I don't ready anything into that crap at all. Tone.....phsssshhh

Trying to pick at a set of words and trying to find "tone" and all these differences, what a waste.

To me it looked like a coach had good things to say about each guy. If somebody is looking at this and trying to speculate that he like Cassel more then Cutler is an idiot. He may have but that would be because he coached the guy and knows him personally. If you take that out, and look at the words only, you would have no story based on those comments at all.

Gimme a frickin break already.

You were obviously a Physical Education major.....if you had a major. You couldn't have proven yourself to be more obtuse with this posting....

extralife · 03-05-2009, 02:44 AM

Man I was going to say something about that post but I just thought it best to continue on with my day.

elsid13 · 03-05-2009, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

That's if you can trust Peter King as a legitimate source of Broncos news.

Any thoughts on what the last Broncos story Peter King was able to be as such?

Keep in mind that not a single local guy has been able to corroborate this story - and they've been digging.

That what confused me so much about that "story", if Cutler really wanted to be traded after Bates/Shanahan were released it not like he wouldn't have let the world know. Not a peep from anyone.

hambone13 · 03-05-2009, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by extralife

Man I was going to say something about that post but I just thought it best to continue on with my day.

The OP or another one?

extralife · 03-05-2009, 03:34 AM

the one about tone that you quoted

Drek · 03-05-2009, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

That's if you can trust Peter King as a legitimate source of Broncos news.

Any thoughts on what the last Broncos story Peter King was able to be as such?

Keep in mind that not a single local guy has been able to corroborate this story - and they've been digging.

Funny how you bash King's reliability yet take everything coming from local media outlets (most of which have admitted they now have zero access to the current organization) and Chris Mortenson as fact handed down on stone tablets from god.

Adam Schefter looks to be the only guy who still has connections in the Broncos FO (I'm guessing its Pat Bowlen himself or one of the higher up assistants working directly for Bowlen). Despite the HC change he's still continued to be fast and accurate with breaking Broncos related news.

He says the Broncos never agreed to trade Cutler, that they simply listened and discussed the possiblity when Tampa Bay called, didn't like the sounds of it, and then refused Detroit immediately as well.

But you and your throng of drama queens can keep acting like we had a deal in place and for some inextricable reason the Patriots didn't want #12 and instead wanted #34, even though #12 is only marginally more expensive per year and buys you the right to sign a longer contract. Who am I to stop people from tipping at windmills when they so clearly enjoy it?

hambone13 · 03-05-2009, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drek

Funny how you bash King's reliability yet take everything coming from local media outlets (most of which have admitted they now have zero access to the current organization) and Chris Mortenson as fact handed down on stone tablets from god.

Adam Schefter looks to be the only guy who still has connections in the Broncos FO (I'm guessing its Pat Bowlen himself or one of the higher up assistants working directly for Bowlen). Despite the HC change he's still continued to be fast and accurate with breaking Broncos related news.

He says the Broncos never agreed to trade Cutler, that they simply listened and discussed the possiblity when Tampa Bay called, didn't like the sounds of it, and then refused Detroit immediately as well.

But you and your throng of drama queens can keep acting like we had a deal in place and for some inextricable reason the Patriots didn't want #12 and instead wanted #34, even though #12 is only marginally more expensive per year and buys you the right to sign a longer contract. Who am I to stop people from tipping at windmills when they so clearly enjoy it?

If Adam Scheftler is the only "legitimate" source of information to the Broncos front office, I doubt very seriously, especially given that he works for the league owned network, that he is going to say anything other than precisely what the FO wants the league and everyone else to hear. I'm not saying that Adam doesn't get some good solid accurate scoop but I doubt he's going to be the one that calls one of the leagues "up and comers" a shady integrity case. Guess what happens to his source....... Schefter is the perfect source for things like legitimacy of singings, etc. but he WILL NoT be the one that breaks the story on an integrity issue that the league hopes gets swept under the carpet...

eddie mac · 03-05-2009, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

The 34th pick will cost Belichick considerably less to sign than the 12th would have, leaving him with more cap space for free agents, which is what he was after in the first place.

Yeah. Bellychuck needed all that money to sign BuntaCain and Fred Taylor.

Roh the 12th pick last year got a 5yr deal averaging less than $3m a year. Foxworth just got a $7m per year deal.

FA's cost far more than any picks outside the top 5.

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03-04-2009, 04:06 PM	#1
Agent Orange Just Drafted Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 5	Kreiger's Cutler Fiasco Wrap-up: Belichick's Revenge McD's fiasco: Belichick's revenge? Dave Krieger The Denver Post Posted: 03/04/2009 12:30:00 AM MST The way his best-laid plans have blown up on new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels over the past week, it's almost as if some nefarious rival had a hand in it. And it's not out of the question that one did. The deal Patriots coach Bill Belichick ended up making for quarterback Matt Cassel was so one-sided — a second-round pick from old pal Scott Pioli in Kansas City for Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel — that even Pioli won't talk about it. The conventional wisdom says Belichick took Pioli's second-round pick (No. 34) instead of the Broncos' first (No. 12) he would have gotten out of the proposed Broncos-Bucs-Patriots three-way deal because the Broncos and Bucs were late to the party. Maybe, but since when is the author of Spy-gate too honorable to back out of one deal to take a better one? So it is perhaps worth noting that the day before the Cassel deal was announced, McDaniels, Belichick's former assistant, signed two of Belichick's players — wideout Jabar Gaffney and long snapper Lonie Paxton. In fact, to steal Paxton from the Patriots, McDaniels took the extraordinary step of offering a long snapper a $1 million signing bonus. Why McDaniels considered this necessary given Mike Leach's immaculate record as the Broncos' long snapper I don't know, but a day later, trade talks involving the two teams blew up in McDaniels' face by going public while Belichick made a different deal. The 34th pick will cost Belichick considerably less to sign than the 12th would have, leaving him with more cap space for free agents, which is what he was after in the first place. And, somehow, his former assistant has a quarterback crisis on his hands 24 hours after signing two of his guys. Somewhere, Eric Mangini is having flashbacks. Since the news became public, McDaniels hasn't covered himself with glory. Although Jay Cutler is taking heat for throwing a snit fit, he postponed meeting with the Broncos not because his feelings were hurt. He postponed meeting with them because he thought they were lying to him. "They deny everything," he told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. "That's a problem. We know for a fact they tried to trade me." Even now, there are reports of trade talks with Minnesota and Detroit, although McDaniels stands by his denial. But listen to McDaniels' comments about Cutler and Cassel to a group of reporters on Feb. 20 at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis, courtesy of my former Rocky Mountain News colleague Jeff Legwold. McDaniels was asked about the two QBs on consecutive questions. On Cutler: "I think Jay gives you an opportunity to be successful right away, and I think you have to have a competitive quarterback to be able to win at a high level in this league and I don't think I'm saying anything nobody doesn't know. He's going to be a big piece of what we do and it's important, I think, in our system, the system we're going to use, to have a guy like that there. "I think he'll adapt quick. In the time I spent with him, I think he'll be fine. He's working hard at it; we're hard at it together." On Cassel: "Here's what Matt Cassel is: Very bright, he's very athletic, strong, accurate arm and he has now a full season of game experience under his belt. And I think we all saw how much that meant to him as the season progressed. "He is a competitive player, a great person and there's a lot of things about Matt that are very ideal for that position. He's got size and all the rest of it. "So I was a small part of his success, and he was a big part of my success and I think that whatever challenge Matt Cassel has in front of him, whether that be in New England or happens to be somewhere else, I think he's going to respond to it the same way he responded when he walked in the door in New England, which is to meet it head-on with a great attitude and an incredible work ethic to try and do everything you can to make himself better. "If that's what you're looking for in an NFL quarterback, you probably got a shot." The vast difference in tone between these assessments lends credence to the reports that McDaniels wanted to trade Cutler for Cassel. And since he denies that, if you're Cutler, how much credibility do you attach to what he tells you now? Cutler says he will come back to town next week and try to sort this all out. It's a good move, assuming he's still the Broncos quarterback next week. Blame him for petulance if you like, but the entire episode is a major stumble right out of the gate for the Broncos' new head coach. http://www.denverpost.com/ci_11830190

03-04-2009, 04:35 PM	#2
KillerBronco#76 Perennial Pro-bowler "The Beast" From the east Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 899	im still doubting that we would have given up our 1st to get him im guessing we were offering our 2nd and then the chiefs came in higher with theirs.

03-04-2009, 04:54 PM	#3
Irish Stout Ring of Famer Run for it Marty! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,804 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Woodyard	Kreiger's article articulates what I couldn't - sure Jay wasn't manning up and sorting crap out, but he believed that his bosses were straight up lying to him. It may be a business, but you don't want to work for someone who is not going to be honest in their business dealings... Ok now i will never post on this again... unless it re-blows up.

03-04-2009, 05:52 PM	#5
ZONA Ring of Famer Liquid greatness in every packet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,393 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	Tone this and Tone that. I don't ready anything into that crap at all. Tone.....phsssshhh Trying to pick at a set of words and trying to find "tone" and all these differences, what a waste. To me it looked like a coach had good things to say about each guy. If somebody is looking at this and trying to speculate that he like Cassel more then Cutler is an idiot. He may have but that would be because he coached the guy and knows him personally. If you take that out, and look at the words only, you would have no story based on those comments at all. Gimme a frickin break already.

03-04-2009, 06:12 PM	#6
Tombstone RJ Ring of Famer Old School Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: In the Tetons! Posts: 19,299 Adopt-a-Bronco: WorrellWilliams	So freaking what! So McD has a boner for Cassel, who gives a ratz azz? I said a long time ago (at least I think I said this) that Belichick was schooling McD the hard way. So McD learns a valuable lesson, good. He's 32 years old and has been given the reigns of a class A organization. He'll learn quickly who his friends are and who he needs to steer clear of.

03-04-2009, 06:12 PM	#7
Los Broncos Ring of farmers Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Anaheim Hills, Santa Ana Mountains CA Posts: 18,766 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ryan Clady	I the heard replay today on the radio, this guy sounds like a complete clown.

03-04-2009, 06:39 PM	#8
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,843	The 34th pick will cost Belichick considerably less to sign than the 12th would have, leaving him with more cap space for free agents, which is what he was after in the first place. Yeah. Bellychuck needed all that money to sign BuntaCain and Fred Taylor.

03-04-2009, 06:50 PM	#9
colonelbeef Purge the McScandals! Ben McDaniels needs a new family Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York, NY Posts: 3,856 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ben McDaniels	But but but but but this is all Cutler's fault As I have been saying, Cutler was right in being miffed. He could have toned it down a touch, but he was completely misled by his new coach, and fairly publicly. Any one of you would be pissed as well. *Cue the Shanahan/Cutler bashers with their ad hominem baseless attacks*

03-05-2009, 02:44 AM	#17
extralife Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,907	Man I was going to say something about that post but I just thought it best to continue on with my day.

03-05-2009, 03:34 AM	#20
extralife Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 3,907	the one about tone that you quoted