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Old 03-04-2009, 12:12 AM   #1
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Default Denver goes from youngest team in the NFL to one of the older ones.

With all of our defensive signings along with the highly probably Vonnie Holliday and maybe even Ray Lewis signing... we're going to have one of, if not the oldest defense in the entire NFL.

What are all your thoughts on this? I'm kind of interested to see how everything plays out. It's clear Denver is going to adopt an almost "baseball AAA" system, in that we have the vets starting and the young guys in practice until they prove they can start over the vet. I'm actually liking this quite a bit... especially with the leaders were getting. Andra Davis was a big leader in Cleavland, Dawkins was the soul of Philly, Vonnie was basically the team leader in Miami... and Lewis is the fire of Baltimore.

No Vonnie and Lewis are not here yet... odds are only Vonnie is coming since signing Lewis would make Andra a backup, and give us too many LB's. For missing out on Canty though... Vonnie is the next best thing.

I really see Spencer Larsen and Wesley Woodyard getting huge benefits out of this, as both were leaders of their respective defenses. In truth I see Woodyard (ignore his size) as a team leader for the Broncos in one to two years, and another 6-8 after that.
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:26 AM   #2
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This team had absolutely no leadership on either side of the ball last year outside of Bailey, and he missed most of the season. So, McD is doing the smart thing... going out and securing guys who can immediately bring accountability to those around them.

I love these moves so far. Yes, I would have preferred a heavy hitter, but there just weren't any outside of Haynesworth and he was probably not the right guy for our system and would have eaten up almost all of our FA cash.

So, plugging these holes with smart, talented vets while we build young talent is absolutely the way to go.

I've had a gut feeling we were going to bring in Ray Lewis since the off-season began. (Whether I like it or not.) We'll see how that plays out. It's not looking likely, but I just have a feeling.
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:39 AM   #3
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I hate getting old this fast...

but if we can couple that with a good draft on the defensive side of the ball it will work out well for the long term. None of the guys we brought in cant play so it should work out for this season I think.
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:51 AM   #4
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Marlon Mccree- age 31
Renaldo Hill- age 30

Brian Dawkins- age 35
Marquand Manual- age 29

Nate Webster age- 31
Andre Davis age -31

Dre Bly age- 31
Andre Goodman-30


Outside of Dawkins I don't see much of a change in terms of age. Hopefully they play better then last yrs scrubs.

Other players that have been let go, Engleberger, Winborn, also aren't young players. I just don't see them getting older really. They just cut the old players they had and replaced them with ones about the same age.
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:03 AM   #5
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i am fine with the situation on the defensive side of the ball. that is one of the things i always liked about the Pats. they always have older proven vets starting, and have rookies and young raw players lined up behind the vets learning and preparing to eventually take over.

it makes it easier in the draft and instead of drafting for need we can go BPA and let them learn, rather than hope they can contribute from day 1.
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:22 AM   #6
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I'm still trying to find out how we got older on defense. Seems to me it was a wash.
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Old 03-04-2009, 01:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
This team had absolutely no leadership on either side of the ball last year outside of Bailey, and he missed most of the season. So, McD is doing the smart thing... going out and securing guys who can immediately bring accountability to those around them.

I love these moves so far. Yes, I would have preferred a heavy hitter, but there just weren't any outside of Haynesworth and he was probably not the right guy for our system and would have eaten up almost all of our FA cash.

So, plugging these holes with smart, talented vets while we build young talent is absolutely the way to go.

I've had a gut feeling we were going to bring in Ray Lewis since the off-season began. (Whether I like it or not.) We'll see how that plays out. It's not looking likely, but I just have a feeling.

Bailey leads by his play, but isn't the type that gets guys crazy. Romo would whip Broncos into a frenzy on defense. Atwater same way.

Dawkins will help whip players into a frenzy. There is something that happens to a man when that adrenaline pumps through you, you get so fired up you can't be denied. I haven't seen Broncos like that in a long time.
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Old 03-04-2009, 03:06 AM   #8
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I'm still trying to find out how we got older on defense. Seems to me it was a wash.
During last season we had guys like Josh Barrett, Wesley Woodyard and Spencer Larsen ALL starting... that's youth. They are now taking a backseat to the vets instead of being thrusted into starting rolls. Let's face it... Webster was done after last year and D.J. was going to go middle with Wesley as OLB. Barrett pretty much was going to be our starting SS as well... and even Larsen was showing he had some talent.

We're looking at guys like Vonnie Holliday now who's going to be 34 in December... every starting DB we have WILL be 31+ this season. Our youngest LB is now D.J. Williams at 27 this season. Instead of seeing the young players that contributed last season getting their shots this one... they are now going to have to play the waiting game until they get their shot. That's what this means by going from young to old.

Lets not forget Ryan Torain and Cory Boyd on offense... with 30 year old Buck being told he WILL be the starter on 1st and 2nd downs, we're not using a young back etc etc.

Last year during the Atlanta game we had a ton of Rookies starting. In fact I think we had the most rookies starting games in the NFL last year... I believe every single one STARTED outside of Powel who was basically on the IR or he would have had his shot too. Not going to be like that this year from the looks of it except maybe with our 1st and 2nd round picks... and MAYBE our 3rd. We'll see though.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:38 AM   #9
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this reminds me of the way the flyers rebuilt a few years ago, they went and poached 4 captians off teams, got tonnes of leadership, and went from worst team in the league to final 4. granted our team is only the worst on D, but all that leadership is gonna pay off huge all the way around.

i like it.
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Old 03-04-2009, 04:41 AM   #10
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What's wrong with being 30!!


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Old 03-04-2009, 05:33 AM   #11
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I could care less. As long as we can win with the old guys and we bring in young ones to learn the system. We'll be fine.
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:34 AM   #12
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A big improvement on the defensive side will be just from coaching. I don't mind getting older as well, most of those guys have experience and will be game ready. This defense as a whole has a big job in front of in to get some youth in there, learning the positions and growing their roles, especially this year.
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:38 AM   #13
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Being one of the youngest didn't help much last year. I don't care about the age of the team than I am talent. If the talent is older, so be it.
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Old 03-04-2009, 05:48 AM   #14
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My one fear is that McDaniels feels the pressure to win immediately, and that instead of the long term approach that Shanahan was following in trying to build a modern dynasty, the new FO will try to build a 10 win team today and sacrifice some of the long term potential.

This is why I hated the Cassel idea, and why I do not want to see Sheffler, Marshall etc go
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:11 AM   #15
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Lets not forget Ryan Torain and Cory Boyd on offense

Who?

Boyd never saw the field last year and Torain won't last with this regime. Cross both of these guys off of any wet dream inducing fantasies
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:12 AM   #16
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Scheffler can't stay healthy, so his importance is minimal at this point. The defense needs guys that can play right now, not guys that might someday.

The draft record on defense for this team has been so poor lately that can they really be counted on to find some impact players and guys that can play right away? That's a big question mark right now.

So far, I don't see where the youth is being sacrificed by McDaniels at any spot on the team.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:20 AM   #17
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I really like the moves so far. The leadership and experience is worth paying for.

We will continue to draft replacements, and when those new guys are worthy, they can take the starting spots. I would rather have one of our young safeties trying to unseat a Pro-bowler like Dawkins than watching the crap we put on the field most of last year.

By the way, Ekuban (as the oldest) was also our most consistent D-lineman lately. I liked his leadership and his effort.

This is a good thing so far. Training camp is going to be intense.
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Old 03-04-2009, 06:31 AM   #18
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Barrett could still battle Hill for a starting spot at safety. With Dawkins, they have 3 pretty good safeties I think. At one other will be needed and that'll probbaly happen in the draft at some point.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:05 AM   #19
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Biggest concern that I've got right now isn't the age issue (and I do think it's kind of a wash.)

It's the sheer scale of the makeover. There are going to be an awful lot of people in new suroundings, and it's going to take a little time to develop some cohesion.

But there really isn't much of a choice. Last year's talent on D was so lacking, that they had to bring in a bunch of new guys.

Hopefully, the vets will make a faster transition than rookies.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:21 AM   #20
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Thats funny, I doubt we get either Holliday or Lewis
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:23 AM   #21
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We needed starters on Defense. We needed 1CB, 2 or 3 DL, at least 1 LB, and 1 or 2 Safeties. Then bring in a solid rookie class, and see how things shake up.

No Igor. That is the big question for me.
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Old 03-04-2009, 08:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Popps View Post
This team had absolutely no leadership on either side of the ball last year outside of Bailey, and he missed most of the season. So, McD is doing the smart thing... going out and securing guys who can immediately bring accountability to those around them.

I love these moves so far. Yes, I would have preferred a heavy hitter, but there just weren't any outside of Haynesworth and he was probably not the right guy for our system and would have eaten up almost all of our FA cash.

So, plugging these holes with smart, talented vets while we build young talent is absolutely the way to go.

I've had a gut feeling we were going to bring in Ray Lewis since the off-season began. (Whether I like it or not.) We'll see how that plays out. It's not looking likely, but I just have a feeling.
The young guys were going to improve, the young guys were going to mature. Every person they brought in with the exception of Dawkins is no better than the person they replaced. Denver was a young 8-8 team last year. Now they will be an older 6-10 team this year. Where is the improvement?
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Old 03-05-2009, 11:51 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UberBroncoMan View Post
During last season we had guys like Josh Barrett, Wesley Woodyard and Spencer Larsen ALL starting... that's youth. They are now taking a backseat to the vets instead of being thrusted into starting rolls. Let's face it... Webster was done after last year and D.J. was going to go middle with Wesley as OLB. Barrett pretty much was going to be our starting SS as well... and even Larsen was showing he had some talent.

We're looking at guys like Vonnie Holliday now who's going to be 34 in December... every starting DB we have WILL be 31+ this season. Our youngest LB is now D.J. Williams at 27 this season. Instead of seeing the young players that contributed last season getting their shots this one... they are now going to have to play the waiting game until they get their shot. That's what this means by going from young to old.

Lets not forget Ryan Torain and Cory Boyd on offense... with 30 year old Buck being told he WILL be the starter on 1st and 2nd downs, we're not using a young back etc etc.

Last year during the Atlanta game we had a ton of Rookies starting. In fact I think we had the most rookies starting games in the NFL last year... I believe every single one STARTED outside of Powel who was basically on the IR or he would have had his shot too. Not going to be like that this year from the looks of it except maybe with our 1st and 2nd round picks... and MAYBE our 3rd. We'll see though.

Sorry but I will go by last seasons starters, not the rookies and young players who backed them up as players got injured.

The starting linebackers last yr were DJ/Webster/Boss Bailey

The starting saftey's last yr were Mccree and Manual

The starting DE were Engleberger and Doom

IMO Broncos may be older on paper but in reality, on the field, to start the yr, it won't be much different then last yr.
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Old 03-05-2009, 12:55 PM   #24
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Quote:
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The young guys were going to improve, the young guys were going to mature. Every person they brought in with the exception of Dawkins is no better than the person they replaced. Denver was a young 8-8 team last year. Now they will be an older 6-10 team this year. Where is the improvement?
Andre Davis may not be better but at least he is bigger. Andre Goodman I think probably about the same as Bly. Renaldo Hill and Dawkins better then anything that started at safety for Denver last yr.

By the way young players don't always improve. Larsen and Woodyard still on team and so is Barrett so it's not like they cut young players. They cut scrubs like Webster, Winborn, Engleberger etc, not exactly young talent.

If anything Broncos traded in old vets who cant play, for old vets who can play some still. The young players IMO will still be given a chance to get better.
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