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Old 02-20-2009, 10:30 PM   #1
mhgaffney
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Default possible trade scenario with Detroit...??

Some of the mocks show Detroit taking Aaron Curry or one of the OTs with the first pick. This raises an interesting trade question, since by most accounts Detriot also needs a QB.

Would Detroit be interested in a deal to acquire Denver's #12 spot -- to nab a top QB? (This is how WE got Cutler -- remember?)

Denver would then move down to #20 and would also get Detriot's spot at #33. The start of the second round would be the equivalent of another first round pick.

Denver would take the best available D player at #20 -- and then take one of the top RBs -- Wells, Moreno or McCoy -- at #33. Surely one of them will fall.

This looks to be a winning deal for both Denver -- and for Detroit. Will it happen? What are the odds?

MHG
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:52 PM   #2
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interesting. I think this makes sense but who r we taking @ 20?
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:14 AM   #3
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Tyson Jackson or Cushing at 20 and Shonn Greene at 33. Screw Wells, Moreno and McCoy
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Old 02-21-2009, 03:50 AM   #4
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Detroit has so many holes that the only trading that they will do is to go backwards and get more picks.
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Old 02-21-2009, 04:55 AM   #5
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When you have the ammunition to get a top LT and a franchise QB you do it no matter how many holes you have. QB and LT are the biggest holes.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:34 AM   #6
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Not a bad scenario, however, isn't Cushing expected to go much higher than 20 right now(although it is still very early in the process)
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:39 AM   #7
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That's a significant overpayment by Detroit. It would likely have to be our 12 and 79 (3rd rounder) for their 20 and 33.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:43 AM   #8
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Why wouldn't Detroit just give the 20th pick to the Pats for Matt Cassel, keep the 33rd, and get a more proven QB in the process?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
Tyson Jackson or Cushing at 20 and Shonn Greene at 33. Screw Wells, Moreno and McCoy
Shonn Greene is several years older than his contemporaries in this draft, only had one standout D1-A college season and that was in a very condusive system, and most importantly, offers pretty much the same skill set of Peyton Hillis carrying the ball, but not nearly the pass pro or pass catching abilities.

Hillis should be penciled in as our feature back. Not a traditional 25-30 carry a game type but he's a great fit for the single back formation that McDaniels liked in NE and that dovetails well with our talent, and he's the best option for pounding the rock inside the 20's.

Pair him with a value slider who fits the speed back format, preferably Moreno somehow falling to our 2nd round pick (or just above it with a small trade up) and we've got a winning RB duo not unlike what the Giants used to be successful last year. Selvin Young isn't that guy, he's lost too much of his once great athleticism due to injuries and can't stay on the field. We need a better option in that role, but that is the role we should be looking to fill.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:25 AM   #9
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Nice take Drek. Selvin should be in the CFL.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:26 AM   #10
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I, like many here, had high hopes for Selvin. Like you said Drek, it appears that the injuries sapped him of any juice he had left in his legs. Thought he had the chance to be a helluva find, but what do I know?
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:11 AM   #11
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I don't think we take an RB with a first or second because the coaching staff really like Torain and Hillis. We'll go RB in round 4 or 5.
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:06 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
Some of the mocks show Detroit taking Aaron Curry or one of the OTs with the first pick. This raises an interesting trade question, since by most accounts Detriot also needs a QB.

Would Detroit be interested in a deal to acquire Denver's #12 spot -- to nab a top QB? (This is how WE got Cutler -- remember?)

Denver would then move down to #20 and would also get Detriot's spot at #33. The start of the second round would be the equivalent of another first round pick.

Denver would take the best available D player at #20 -- and then take one of the top RBs -- Wells, Moreno or McCoy -- at #33. Surely one of them will fall.

This looks to be a winning deal for both Denver -- and for Detroit. Will it happen? What are the odds?

MHG
We won't get #20 and #33. More likely, it would be #20 and # 65, which is within about 80 points on the value chart. We may pick up a late-rounder in addition if this happened.

The biggest problem is that, if Detroit passes on Stafford, SF may be the only team taking a QB in the top-10. If that happens, Detroit has no urgency to overpay for a QB, since the teams immediately behind us have no need for a QB, and the Lions could likely pick up Sanchez with a smaller deal to, say, #16, ahead of the Jets (#20 and #82 would probably get that done, and he'd get a smaller deal). The only way this changes is if there are other teams making noise about moving up and Detroit feels like they have to beat them to the punch.

In my opinion, the more likely scenario would be Detroit trading up for an LT if they grab Stafford #1. I still don't think that's all that unrealistic (especially if they don't make a move for Cassel) and would really lay the foundation for a strong offense. They already have guys like Johnson, Kevin Smith, and Otah in place. If they grab Stafford #1, then trade #65 and #20 for an LT (Jason Smith or Oher?), they'd have their QB, bookend OT's, RB, and possibly the most talented WR in the league. Plus, they'd still have #33 and Dallas' 3rd (#82) to bring in another WR or help to shore up that Defense.

There are trade possibilities out there with the Lions, but not the deal you mentioned (although I'd be leading the Xanders bandwagon if we pulled it off).
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Why wouldn't Detroit just give the 20th pick to the Pats for Matt Cassel, keep the 33rd, and get a more proven QB in the process?


Shonn Greene is several years older than his contemporaries in this draft, only had one standout D1-A college season and that was in a very condusive system, and most importantly, offers pretty much the same skill set of Peyton Hillis carrying the ball, but not nearly the pass pro or pass catching abilities.

Hillis should be penciled in as our feature back. Not a traditional 25-30 carry a game type but he's a great fit for the single back formation that McDaniels liked in NE and that dovetails well with our talent, and he's the best option for pounding the rock inside the 20's.

Pair him with a value slider who fits the speed back format, preferably Moreno somehow falling to our 2nd round pick (or just above it with a small trade up) and we've got a winning RB duo not unlike what the Giants used to be successful last year. Selvin Young isn't that guy, he's lost too much of his once great athleticism due to injuries and can't stay on the field. We need a better option in that role, but that is the role we should be looking to fill.
Great take on our RB situation. I don't think it makes sense for us to duplicate Hillis' skill-set. We really don't need a workhorse back this year, but more of a complimentary type who can carry 15-20 times a game, with Hillis picking up 10-15 carries.
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhgaffney View Post
Some of the mocks show Detroit taking Aaron Curry or one of the OTs with the first pick. This raises an interesting trade question, since by most accounts Detriot also needs a QB.

Would Detroit be interested in a deal to acquire Denver's #12 spot -- to nab a top QB? (This is how WE got Cutler -- remember?)

Denver would then move down to #20 and would also get Detriot's spot at #33. The start of the second round would be the equivalent of another first round pick.

Denver would take the best available D player at #20 -- and then take one of the top RBs -- Wells, Moreno or McCoy -- at #33. Surely one of them will fall.

This looks to be a winning deal for both Denver -- and for Detroit. Will it happen? What are the odds?

MHG
Odds are low, but the potential is there. McD has been a part of a wheeling and dealing Pats team that has made a nice living with draft trades. Wells and Moreno won't drop to the 2nd round, even if it's the first pick in the 2nd round. Mike Sanchez likely won't drop to #12 either. But, Freeman is gain ground and if the Lions want a QB they may move up for the pick. Too bad the teams picking in the 13-15 range don't need a QB either, so they are all possible trade partners too.

Personally, I think we stay put at #12 and go BPA. Top player on our list. If it's Malcom Jenkins so beit. If it's Beanie Wells or Knowshon Moreno, fine. It could very well be Jeremy Maclin. Here's a darkhorse for you though. Percy Harvin! He may not be the pick at #12, but I guarantee Josh McD likes the kid and will want him in Denver. 200# RB/WR that can play the slot or RB. He has incredible speed and outstanding hands. Injuries are the only thing preventing him from being in the top 10. And, if you look at him from his freshman year to his junior year, he has showed the ability to bulk up and gain weight. Just look at his arms now compared to two years ago. Big difference. Same thing with his legs and neck. Reminds me A LOT of Clinton Portis in terms of size... but FASTER! Expect him to run a 4.3 flat, but could surprise and run a sub 4.3.
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:25 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drek View Post
Why wouldn't Detroit just give the 20th pick to the Pats for Matt Cassel, keep the 33rd, and get a more proven QB in the process?


Shonn Greene is several years older than his contemporaries in this draft, only had one standout D1-A college season and that was in a very condusive system, and most importantly, offers pretty much the same skill set of Peyton Hillis carrying the ball, but not nearly the pass pro or pass catching abilities.

Hillis should be penciled in as our feature back. Not a traditional 25-30 carry a game type but he's a great fit for the single back formation that McDaniels liked in NE and that dovetails well with our talent, and he's the best option for pounding the rock inside the 20's.

Pair him with a value slider who fits the speed back format, preferably Moreno somehow falling to our 2nd round pick (or just above it with a small trade up) and we've got a winning RB duo not unlike what the Giants used to be successful last year. Selvin Young isn't that guy, he's lost too much of his once great athleticism due to injuries and can't stay on the field. We need a better option in that role, but that is the role we should be looking to fill.
See i don't want to use 1st or 2nd round picks on complimentary backs, which is what Moreno is. he will compliment what Hillis brings to the table. Also, Hillis's pass catching skills and wide array of talent will make McDaniels more likely to use him as a Kevin Faulk pass catcher out of the backfield, and not the primary runner for us. Shonn Greene's skills are similar to Hillis and that is why I like him. Last season our running game was best when Hillis was running, and since I don't think McDaniels will use Hillis as a RB often, I would like to get a guy with a similar skill set as opposed to a smaller guy whose skills are more in line with a slightly more powerful Selvin Young.

and if not Shonn Greene in the 2nd because of his age, another guy who really should be considered over McCoy and Moreno is Rashard Jennings.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Last season our running game was best when Hillis was running
Couldnt of said it better myself

Which is why Hillis needs to carry the ball for us
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