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View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Combine?
Forget the combine, watch game film only to draft great players 11 18.97%
The combine is somewhat important, it lets you know how individuals stack up against "the best." 28 48.28%
The combine is very important to judging talent, "buy" a player based on physical giftedness. 4 6.90%
The main benefit is it let's you find unknown players - "gems in the rough." 15 25.86%
Voters: 58. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-15-2009, 10:57 AM   #1
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Default What Importance Do You Place on the Combine?

Just a quick question here, but maybe it sparks some discussion on different philosophies on the importance of the combine in drafting.

Although i'm very interested in the combine results, i'm starting to feel indifferent towards it.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:06 AM   #2
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Depends on position and other factors, but I'd say it's very important.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:15 AM   #3
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I'm somewhere in between the top two answers, because while I think waaaay too much importance is put on it, it also is a good judge of how serious a prospect is about the game. I get a very prima donna vibe from players who show up to the combine and don't participate without a reason.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:31 AM   #4
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The combine is important for 3 reasons, it gives players a chance to show their limits, it gives teams an opportunity to guage the players mentality and it allows players who have played for bad teams to show that they may be better than they appear on tape.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:36 AM   #5
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Option 4. Its a great way to learn about players that fly under the radar. But its not the be all end all (Kyle Boller) to determine who is great or not.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:36 AM   #6
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I think its pretty important as long as it is used as part of an overall evaluation. Game film is most important, but it can mislead you, and the combine provides you with a good, standardized way to isolate skills and check them against game film, and also a way to check out players skills at positions/roles they didn't play in college. I think the combine helps scouts identify players whose game film is misleading, and game film should help scouts identify players who are better at drills then football.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:55 AM   #7
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It does have its importance, but some GM's and coaches put waay to much stock in it the numbers. I agree with those that think its a very good measure for the players coming out.
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:04 PM   #8
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I would say it's very important but not for the reasons in the poll. It really gives you a clearer idea of what you're looking at from a purely physical perspective. It also gives you a few more criteria to appraise a prospects value. Someone on film might play well and have a great work ethic. Then the question is their measurables. If they are elite then it adds value. If they are poor then they become a later round bargain. By the same token, someone can do awesome at the combine but on film they look like crap. Then it's question of whether they're just a workout warrior or if they weren't in a good coaching situation. Usually its the former.
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Old 02-15-2009, 01:24 PM   #9
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i have never really thought the combine or pro days were all that important. all it does is showcase the measurables of a player. i honestly don't give a damn about how fast a player runs, how much he can lift or anything like that, because it has no actual bearing on how good a player on the field he would be.

look at TD. he ran like a 4.6-4.7 in the 40 and was overlooked for reasons like that, whereas on the field no one had faster game speed than him.

measurables don't have any bearing on whether or not a player will be any good, game film is what shows how good a player will be or has the ability to be.

measurables are why we are currently stuck with Jarvis Moss.
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Old 02-15-2009, 01:50 PM   #10
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always look for foot work
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Old 02-15-2009, 02:12 PM   #11
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The "diamonds in the rough" aren't usually the ones invited to combine, but there can be surprises and their individual stock could rise, based on the combine perfomance.
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoMan4ever View Post
i have never really thought the combine or pro days were all that important. all it does is showcase the measurables of a player. i honestly don't give a damn about how fast a player runs, how much he can lift or anything like that, because it has no actual bearing on how good a player on the field he would be.

look at TD. he ran like a 4.6-4.7 in the 40 and was overlooked for reasons like that, whereas on the field no one had faster game speed than him.

measurables don't have any bearing on whether or not a player will be any good, game film is what shows how good a player will be or has the ability to be.

measurables are why we are currently stuck with Jarvis Moss.
You can't blame Moss 4.7 40 yard dash and his 16 bench press reps at the combine for him being drafted in the 1st round.

Game film is at least as deceptive as measurables, look at John Mccargo, he looked good on tape but now no team would touch him with a 10 foot pole.

You can always find examples of people who have poor measurables but are very good players and you can find a ton of examples of people who played poorly but with good measurables who are very good players (Eddie Royal is one).

The important thing about the combine is that teams can talk to players and guage how players respond to adversity and competition. Clady last year helped himself by not backing out of the combine after he got injured so teams saw that he was willing to struggle on when it hurt. The same way some players hurt themselves by always being at the back of the line for drills. Those things are very important and you can't see that on game tape.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:01 PM   #13
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:13 PM   #14
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The poll is to narrow to say what the combine is.

It's a chance to meet players and put a face and personality to the name.
You can see how players either rise up or crumble under media and scouting scrutiny.

You can look for injuries that players and agents are trying to hide.

You can make sure players fit your size/speed ratios that you feel your team needs. IE Bill Parcells is really big on players looking the part as far as muscle development goes. He feels those players end up more durable.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
You can't blame Moss 4.7 40 yard dash and his 16 bench press reps at the combine for him being drafted in the 1st round.

Game film is at least as deceptive as measurables, look at John Mccargo, he looked good on tape but now no team would touch him with a 10 foot pole.

You can always find examples of people who have poor measurables but are very good players and you can find a ton of examples of people who played poorly but with good measurables who are very good players (Eddie Royal is one).

The important thing about the combine is that teams can talk to players and guage how players respond to adversity and competition. Clady last year helped himself by not backing out of the combine after he got injured so teams saw that he was willing to struggle on when it hurt. The same way some players hurt themselves by always being at the back of the line for drills. Those things are very important and you can't see that on game tape.
John McCargo played on a line with Mario Williams, Manny Lawson and Tank Tyler. Part of the combine is to see if his production was because of that or his own talent. I thought McCargo would produce. Maybe he just didn't get the mental part of the game.
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Old 02-15-2009, 05:56 PM   #16
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I think the combine is way important cause it lets you find guys who can jump really high, and run really fast. Who cares about tackling anyway?
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:00 PM   #17
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It gets you a chance to see them on a personal level.

It's very important to see how players react. For example, seeing how a CB performs in drills. Speed is one thing, but you get a chance to see if they have fluid hips and can good judgement.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:16 PM   #18
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It's all about the Wonderlic, baby. I'm feeling a 5 from someone this year.
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Old 02-15-2009, 06:25 PM   #19
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not super important. game speed and straight line speed are different, these players spend months training the very specific drills the combine tests, so the numbers are inflated a bit, and great players dont take it very seriously all the time. what it does do however is show you the maximum potential of a player. take that for what its worth though, as the skills are not perfect carry-overs to the NFL
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man-Goblin View Post
It's all about the Wonderlic, baby. I'm feeling a 5 from someone this year.
While you're probably being sarcastic here, I think you actually have a good point.

That Vince Young wonderlic score ended up being a pretty good predictor of future performance, didn't it? If the Titans had taken Cutler instead, they'd be holding the Lombardi trophy now.

Last edited by BowlenBall; 02-16-2009 at 05:03 AM..
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Old 02-15-2009, 09:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
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While you're probably being sarcastic here, I think you actually have a good point.

That Vince Young wonderic score ended up being a pretty good predictor of future performance, didn't it? If the Titans had taken Cutler instead, they'd be holding the Lombardi trophy now.
and we would have been lucky to finish this year at 4-12
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:13 PM   #22
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I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the Combine is just one phase of the evaluation process. It allows the college players to begin understanding the expectations of being a professional athlete, and the NFL get it's first opportunity to see how a sizeable potential investment performs, acts and thinks. Combined with the individual workouts and Pro Days, it seems a little surprising to me that there still so many busts. But then, I guess it'smuch harder to gauge heart.
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Old 02-15-2009, 10:16 PM   #23
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I'm no expert, but it seems to me that the Combine is just one phase of the evaluation process. It allows the college players to begin understanding the expectations of being a professional athlete, and the NFL get it's first opportunity to see how a sizeable potential investment performs, acts and thinks. Combined with the individual workouts and Pro Days, it seems a little surprising to me that there still so many busts. But then, I guess it'smuch harder to gauge heart.
i think a lot of "busts" are a result of the team that drafted them not developing them or giving them a fair shake. look at essentially every raiders pick over teh last 5 years
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:52 PM   #24
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This is just one tool out of many scouts and coaches get to use to determine the talent level of incoming college athletes.


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Old 02-16-2009, 02:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
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measurables are why we are currently stuck with Jarvis Moss.
Right, it has nothing to do with coaching or playing out of position.

Here are some combine notes on Moss:
Jarvis Moss - Moss exhibited the speed that have some believing he can be an effective 3-4 OLB, with a 4.70 40. Moss did not do any of the agility drills, so his performance at his pro day will determine if he can transition to that position at the next level. At just 250 lbs, Moss is probably too small to be an every down DE in the NFL.

I'm sure that his performance in a single drill was the reason we drafted him, and that it had nothing to do with him terrorizing OSU in the National Championship game.
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