You make the call - trade up or down or stay put - The Orange Mane

ZONA · 02-14-2009, 12:44 PM

We all know our defense is in shambles. A new system going in, new coaches and a plethora of crappy players. Nothing is for sure but I'm going out on a limb here (a very small thin twig of a limb actually) and say we are going to use our 1st pick on a defensive player.

There are 2 views on how we work the first round in the draft. Move up (swapping 1st rounders and probably giving up later picks and or players) or move down (again, swapping 1st rounders and getting additional later round picks or players) or just stay put at 12.

We sure have alot of holes to fill so moving down could be the way to go. But at what cost? I know all picks are gambles but math doesn't lie. 1st round picks have a higher success rate in the NFL then do 5th rounders, ok, you get the point. If we stay put, we can land a nice player at 12 and keep our later picks which is nice but we could miss the guy we want by doing that. I think moving up is the highest risk though. You not only have to give up picks, but it's not a for sure thing you still land the guy you want.

This is not a thread about who we should take but philosophy on moving up or down or staying put. Since it's all a crap shoot on what players are there and when they go and to who, I think it mainly comes down to philosophy on how you work it.

So, you make the call.

TheDave · 02-14-2009, 12:46 PM

Either trade down or stay put. We need every pick we have... maybe more.

We could easily have 6-7 new starters on defense. The draft is going to have to supply most of those.

PRBronco · 02-14-2009, 12:46 PM

Don't move up, there's no one there we need that badly. If Raji or somehow Curry is there at 12, jump on them, else move down, although I'm sure a lot of people would think Rey rey is worth taking at 12. Actually I'd be ok with taking Everette Brown at 12th I think.

Br0nc0Buster · 02-14-2009, 12:48 PM

Stay put

There should be someone there to help our front 7
I wouldnt trade up, too costly

Flex Gunmetal · 02-14-2009, 12:50 PM

ReyRey with #12

tsiguy96 · 02-14-2009, 12:52 PM

you cant just decide to trade up or move down, you have to have someone willing to trade with you. not many teams trade up every year because it costs so much to do so, and its rarely worth it unless its for what you see as a huge need for a playoff team, franchise QB or immediate gamebreaker. look at our trade up for jarvis, it wasnt very smart because it was pretty well known he was a project, it cost us i think a third (and fourth?).

cutthemdown · 02-14-2009, 12:59 PM

Move up but only if it get's you Curry.

oubronco · 02-14-2009, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

you cant just decide to trade up or move down, you have to have someone willing to trade with you. not many teams trade up every year because it costs so much to do so, and its rarely worth it unless its for what you see as a huge need for a playoff team, franchise QB or immediate gamebreaker. look at our trade up for jarvis, it wasnt very smart because it was pretty well known he was a project, it cost us i think a third (and fourth?).

Moss?

cmhargrove · 02-14-2009, 01:09 PM

I've been looking agin at the Pats and the 49ers to see what their history is again.

The Pats start everything by putting first rounders into their 3 interior D-line spots. Guys like Wilfork and Seymour form the base and draw dounle teams. It allows them to rotate other talent through the third spot. So, the Pats started with top-notch interior linemen.

The 49ers brought along lots of picks from 3-5th rounds. They developed some big D-ends, and also have some "tweener" DT's that play end. (they have one top notch FA in Justin Smith).

There's no doubt the Pats method has produced a better result.

Both teams also put a high priority on their ILB "field generals." The 49ers have Willis, the Pats drafted Mayo. These guys are fast, hard hitters and great leaders. It will be interesting to see if they think DJ can handle this. If not, Maualuga fits the bill as a big, fast hitter, I just don't know about his football intelligence. He's had a lot of talent around him to make up for his errors.

So, I endorse the Pats method.
I say #12 is best used on one of two players - Curry (who should be gone), or Raji. So, if Raji is there, you take him.

Otherwise, you trade down for an impact guy who starts in your front 3 from day 1 and draws double teams. That guy is Tyson Jackson. He is a major force coming off the outside, and would make it even easier for our OLB's to adjust to the new scheme. In 4-3 alignment, he would be a run stopping machine, and in a 3-4 he would be a great pocket crusher.

Trading down allows us to take another two impact players in the second. If Larry English is there, you take him first. If not, take your pick of best Safety available (Delmas, Johnson, Chung). With the bonus pick in the second, I would take a Safety or Shonn Greene.

CBF1 · 02-14-2009, 01:13 PM

Stay put.... or trade down depending who is still on the boards at 12

cmhargrove · 02-14-2009, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

you cant just decide to trade up or move down, you have to have someone willing to trade with you. not many teams trade up every year because it costs so much to do so, and its rarely worth it unless its for what you see as a huge need for a playoff team, franchise QB or immediate gamebreaker. look at our trade up for jarvis, it wasnt very smart because it was pretty well known he was a project, it cost us i think a third (and fourth?).

The only "realistic" scenario is if one of the top receivers (Crabtree or Maclin) or if by chance on of the top QB's (Stafford or Sanchez) starts to fall, and someone wants him bad enough. If Gruden was still in Tampa, I would have said the Bucs would trade up, but with a new rookie coach I doubt he would break the back and put his neck on the line for an offensive skill player.

NFLBRONCO · 02-14-2009, 01:22 PM

Trade down with Miami and get another 2nd rounder since Miami has two. We need picks to bolster D.

Kaylore · 02-14-2009, 01:30 PM

I'd love to move down. We have a lot of holes on defense and need as many prospects as possible.

GoBroncos84 · 02-14-2009, 01:33 PM

There are a couple of players I really like at 12, but there is a chance they would be there later if we can trade back. Rey and Knowshon would be great for this team. I know D is a much bigger need than offense, but I would still love for us to take Moreno and then focus the rest of the draft on D. If we get one of those 2 guys, whether its at 12 or we can move back and pick up an extra selection and still get one of them, I will be happy with our first round. I don't think Raji or Curry will be available and don't want to move up for them, and as much as I like Everette Brown I think Dumervil will be our rush linebacker and be very effective.

Hamrob · 02-14-2009, 01:42 PM

Trade down and snap up a guy like Cushing. IMO there is just as good value between 12-24 as at 12.

If we were to trade down 7-10 spots and pick up an extra 2. That could mean getting a guy like Cushing in the 1st and picking up a DT and a RB in the 2nd round.

That's the way that I'd go.

The only guy I'd stay put for is Curry!

SureShot · 02-14-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I'd love to move down. We have a lot of holes on defense and need as many prospects as possible.

No thanks. I don't trust Kiddy McDandraftbusts and Colonel Xanders with more picks. When will you fanboys wake up?

randomtask · 02-14-2009, 01:55 PM

Move down. We have so many holes on defense that every pick is critical. Additionally, Only Curry, Raji, and Brown are worth the #12 pick for us, IMO.

tsiguy96 · 02-14-2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

Trade down with Miami and get another 2nd rounder since Miami has two. We need picks to bolster D.

do you think miami would want to give up one of their 2nds to move up? if you were them, would you? i doubt it. it all begins with someone wanting to move up, you cant chose to move down, you need someone with a need at your position to approach you about it (i imagine asking other teams "hey you wanna move up!?" doesnt work.) and you have to want to move down.

in this case, i highly doubt we get approached unless someone falls who shouldnt.

ludo21 · 02-14-2009, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Move up but only if it get's you Curry.

this

NFLBRONCO · 02-14-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

do you think miami would want to give up one of their 2nds to move up? if you were them, would you? i doubt it. it all begins with someone wanting to move up, you cant chose to move down, you need someone with a need at your position to approach you about it (i imagine asking other teams "hey you wanna move up!?" doesnt work.) and you have to want to move down.

in this case, i highly doubt we get approached unless someone falls who shouldnt.

It depends on need and I know it unlikely just threw out a team. I wanted another Day 1 pick for us is all.

rugbythug · 02-14-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SureShot

No thanks. I don't trust Kiddy McDandraftbusts and Colonel Xanders with more picks. When will you fanboys wake up?

Are you for real? Can we at least let them loose a game before they suck

tsiguy96 · 02-14-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLBRONCO

It depends on need and I know it unlikely just threw out a team. I wanted another Day 1 pick for us is all.

i think every team in the NFL wants more day 1 picks, which is why not many are willing to give them up!

barryr · 02-14-2009, 04:50 PM

I'm always for trading down and getting extra picks. But obviously if there is a player you see as a pro bowl type with that top pick, then you are more wise to get that player since quality means more than quantity in that case.

SureShot · 02-14-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugbythug

Are you for real? Can we at least let them loose a game before they suck

I will not stand for anymore loosening!

tsiguy96 · 02-14-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rugbythug

Are you for real? Can we at least let them loose a game before they suck

i think hes just getting a head start on the rest of the haters on this board that will sound like that after:
1. any loss
2. a really bad loss in particular
3. any of the draft picks doesnt work out
4. a 1st day pick makes a mistake
5. a 2nd day pick makes a mistake
6. the kickers miss a field goal
7. cutler throws an interception
8. marshall drops a pass
9. anyone fumbles

View Poll Results: Move Up - Move Down - Stay Put
Move Up	5	5.56%
Move Down	34	37.78%
Stay Put	51	56.67%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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02-14-2009, 12:44 PM	#1
ZONA Ring of Famer Liquid greatness in every packet Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,383 Adopt-a-Bronco: Chris Harris	You make the call - trade up or down or stay put We all know our defense is in shambles. A new system going in, new coaches and a plethora of crappy players. Nothing is for sure but I'm going out on a limb here (a very small thin twig of a limb actually) and say we are going to use our 1st pick on a defensive player. There are 2 views on how we work the first round in the draft. Move up (swapping 1st rounders and probably giving up later picks and or players) or move down (again, swapping 1st rounders and getting additional later round picks or players) or just stay put at 12. We sure have alot of holes to fill so moving down could be the way to go. But at what cost? I know all picks are gambles but math doesn't lie. 1st round picks have a higher success rate in the NFL then do 5th rounders, ok, you get the point. If we stay put, we can land a nice player at 12 and keep our later picks which is nice but we could miss the guy we want by doing that. I think moving up is the highest risk though. You not only have to give up picks, but it's not a for sure thing you still land the guy you want. This is not a thread about who we should take but philosophy on moving up or down or staying put. Since it's all a crap shoot on what players are there and when they go and to who, I think it mainly comes down to philosophy on how you work it. So, you make the call.

02-14-2009, 12:46 PM	#2
TheDave Sauced... Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 15,120	Either trade down or stay put. We need every pick we have... maybe more. We could easily have 6-7 new starters on defense. The draft is going to have to supply most of those.

02-14-2009, 12:46 PM	#3
PRBronco FML less Join Date: May 2004 Location: North Vancouver Posts: 4,206 Adopt-a-Bronco: I'm so alone	Don't move up, there's no one there we need that badly. If Raji or somehow Curry is there at 12, jump on them, else move down, although I'm sure a lot of people would think Rey rey is worth taking at 12. Actually I'd be ok with taking Everette Brown at 12th I think.

02-14-2009, 12:48 PM	#4
Br0nc0Buster 2012 AFC West Champs stiff arming through the playoffs Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Kansas Posts: 4,432	Stay put There should be someone there to help our front 7 I wouldnt trade up, too costly

02-14-2009, 12:50 PM	#5
Flex Gunmetal Icy Fresh Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: COLORADO Posts: 3,031 Adopt-a-Bronco: Francis Daytona	ReyRey with #12

02-14-2009, 12:52 PM	#6
tsiguy96 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12,559 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	you cant just decide to trade up or move down, you have to have someone willing to trade with you. not many teams trade up every year because it costs so much to do so, and its rarely worth it unless its for what you see as a huge need for a playoff team, franchise QB or immediate gamebreaker. look at our trade up for jarvis, it wasnt very smart because it was pretty well known he was a project, it cost us i think a third (and fourth?).

02-14-2009, 12:59 PM	#7
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,479	Move up but only if it get's you Curry.

02-14-2009, 01:09 PM	#9
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,409 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	I've been looking agin at the Pats and the 49ers to see what their history is again. The Pats start everything by putting first rounders into their 3 interior D-line spots. Guys like Wilfork and Seymour form the base and draw dounle teams. It allows them to rotate other talent through the third spot. So, the Pats started with top-notch interior linemen. The 49ers brought along lots of picks from 3-5th rounds. They developed some big D-ends, and also have some "tweener" DT's that play end. (they have one top notch FA in Justin Smith). There's no doubt the Pats method has produced a better result. Both teams also put a high priority on their ILB "field generals." The 49ers have Willis, the Pats drafted Mayo. These guys are fast, hard hitters and great leaders. It will be interesting to see if they think DJ can handle this. If not, Maualuga fits the bill as a big, fast hitter, I just don't know about his football intelligence. He's had a lot of talent around him to make up for his errors. So, I endorse the Pats method. I say #12 is best used on one of two players - Curry (who should be gone), or Raji. So, if Raji is there, you take him. Otherwise, you trade down for an impact guy who starts in your front 3 from day 1 and draws double teams. That guy is Tyson Jackson. He is a major force coming off the outside, and would make it even easier for our OLB's to adjust to the new scheme. In 4-3 alignment, he would be a run stopping machine, and in a 3-4 he would be a great pocket crusher. Trading down allows us to take another two impact players in the second. If Larry English is there, you take him first. If not, take your pick of best Safety available (Delmas, Johnson, Chung). With the bonus pick in the second, I would take a Safety or Shonn Greene.

02-14-2009, 01:13 PM	#10
CBF1 Ring of Famer No avatar is the new avatar Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: SoCal Posts: 14,907 Adopt-a-Bronco: Jack Del rio	Stay put.... or trade down depending who is still on the boards at 12

02-14-2009, 01:22 PM	#12
NFLBRONCO Ring of Famer Go Nuggets Go Lakers Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Lafayette Colorado Posts: 7,388	Trade down with Miami and get another 2nd rounder since Miami has two. We need picks to bolster D.

02-14-2009, 01:30 PM	#13
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,051 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	I'd love to move down. We have a lot of holes on defense and need as many prospects as possible.

02-14-2009, 01:33 PM	#14
GoBroncos84 Perennial Pro-bowler Crucify the Ego Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 758 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	There are a couple of players I really like at 12, but there is a chance they would be there later if we can trade back. Rey and Knowshon would be great for this team. I know D is a much bigger need than offense, but I would still love for us to take Moreno and then focus the rest of the draft on D. If we get one of those 2 guys, whether its at 12 or we can move back and pick up an extra selection and still get one of them, I will be happy with our first round. I don't think Raji or Curry will be available and don't want to move up for them, and as much as I like Everette Brown I think Dumervil will be our rush linebacker and be very effective.

02-14-2009, 01:42 PM	#15
Hamrob All-American! All-American! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: DFW Posts: 4,747 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	Trade down and snap up a guy like Cushing. IMO there is just as good value between 12-24 as at 12. If we were to trade down 7-10 spots and pick up an extra 2. That could mean getting a guy like Cushing in the 1st and picking up a DT and a RB in the 2nd round. That's the way that I'd go. The only guy I'd stay put for is Curry!

02-14-2009, 01:55 PM	#17
randomtask Thomas is my hero. Like a complete unknown Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Golden, CO Posts: 708 Adopt-a-Bronco: Walton	Move down. We have so many holes on defense that every pick is critical. Additionally, Only Curry, Raji, and Brown are worth the #12 pick for us, IMO.

02-14-2009, 04:50 PM	#23
barryr Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 8,267 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	I'm always for trading down and getting extra picks. But obviously if there is a player you see as a pro bowl type with that top pick, then you are more wise to get that player since quality means more than quantity in that case.