Do We Already Have Our ILB's?

[cmhargrove]

I was just looking at the depth chart again, and remembered Mario Haggan at 6'3" 263. Then there's DJ, who looks to fit ILB more than OLB. The coaches have already given him the thumbs up.

Even for depth, we have Larsen (who could obviously compete with Haggan), and possibly even Winborn (with a low price tag).

It would seem to me that we have more ILB's on the roster than OLB's (unless both Elvis and Jarvis can transition).

For that reason, I don't see Maualuga as our first round pick unless we trade down. Just my thoughts.


Also, a couple other funny things about the depth chart:
Our starting RB is Tatum Bell, followed by Cory Boyd (it just looks ridiculous).
Darrell Jackson is listed as our second string punt returner behind Eddie Royal (snicker).
If Mike Leach went down, we would have had a long snap battle between Chris Kuper (broken hand) and Tony Scheffler.

Polumbus would have taken over at either Tackle spot, and Lichtensteiger would have taken over at all three interior spots.

[MagicHef]

I would think Larsen would get the SILB spot over Haggan. Less size, but more skill.

[e-mac]

I disagree Mario Haggan is the more experienced player started in buffalo if I remember correctly, I think the 3-4 is a better fit for him than any other Lber currently on the roster, Larsen is what he is but Nolan runs alot of cover one with the SILB in man coverage, that makes Spencer a two down player at best as COD and pass recotnition are his most obvious shortcomings.

[e-mac]

also Jamie Winborn won't make it out of camp Nolan already ran him off a team once in his career back in San Fran, also Takeo Spikes is a SF free agent had a good year in the 3-4 SILB after questionable play in Johnsons 4-3 Defence in Philly. Spikes and Williams would be a nice center to a new culture of LBers in Denver.

[ayjackson]

Lets not assume that Nolan will run "his" 3-4. Early returns (GMs fired), may indicate that McDaniels is calling the shots and he spent four seasons in NE as a defensive assistant before switching to offense. I think McDaniels brought Nolan in because he was the best fit to run McD's defence.

In NE, when McD was on defence, Ted Johnson was the SILB. He was a two-down, downhill hammer. That is still the preference in NE. Bruschi can't cover anymore there as SILB, so they will usually cover the TE with a safety, or a nickel LB in passing situations.

[elsid13]

Haggen is outside backer that they moved inside because of injuries last season. He is at best a ST player that can play on the outside spot in 3-4 if needed. Larson has more ability to play the ILB for us, and I expect that he will get the first shot to start next to Williams.

[cutthemdown]

Haggen= depth player not the type of new starters we need to make this happen.

Winborn way to small to play in a 3-4, there is no spot for him. His only use is to play the weakside in a 4-3. He was horrid at SSL because he's just not big or strong enough.

DJ can maybe play inside in a 3-4 and do well, but IMO he will need a 250 pound partner to play the other inside spot. DJ a tad small in the way he plays to be the biggest force inside in a 3-4. He could be a good compliment to a bigger player like Ray Lewis etc.

[Dedhed]

Originally Posted by ayjackson

Lets not assume that Nolan will run "his" 3-4. Early returns (GMs fired), may indicate that McDaniels is calling the shots and he spent four seasons in NE as a defensive assistant before switching to offense. I think McDaniels brought Nolan in because he was the best fit to run McD's defence.

In NE, when McD was on defence, Ted Johnson was the SILB. He was a two-down, downhill hammer. That is still the preference in NE. Bruschi can't cover anymore there as SILB, so they will usually cover the TE with a safety, or a nickel LB in passing situations.

Good points here. I think Larsen is very much a Bruschi type of player, and McDaniels might see him in that role. However, I think he's going to trust Nolan, for the most part, to run the defense how he sees fit.

The original point of the thread may have some merit. I've been on a Maualuga tear, but given that Moss, Dumervil, Larsen, DJ, Woodyard, and Haggan all project as LBs in a 3-4 we're probably thinner on the DL than we are at LB.

It's a tough call though because I doubt any of the real impact DL will be on the board (and represent value) at #12, and it is always difficult to move back in the draft. I think Raji will go top 10, and he's about the only DL prospect who would represent value at #12.

I love Peria Jerry, but he would be a reach at #12. I love Everett Brown, but he's an OLB in the 3-4 and wouldn't have the first year impact that Maualuga would while making the transition.

[s0phr0syne]

What do people think about Antonio Appleby as a good later round ILB draft prospect?

I don't know much about him, just wondering if any posters have seen him play and have any comments.

He's played four years in a 3-4 already, so that should help his rookie transition...

[Carmelo15]

I agree with Dedhed. We got our LB's on our roster. Maybe one more OLB. But we have zero nose tackles on our roster and Marcus Thomas and Kenny Peterson are the only guys i can see playing 5 technique DE. So I think defensive line is our greatest need. That being said my ideal offseason would be to first get that NT. Raji will be gone at #12 so unless McDaniels and Xanders like him enough to trade up the draft will not be the solution for us at NT. Trading into the top 10 is very costly so I dont see that happening. So I think we need to go out and get Gabe Watson. Hes a RFA so he'll likely cost us a 3rd rounder. In my opinion he is worth that especially if you look at who we could draft at that point of the draft. Gabe Watson or Terrence Taylor? Immediate starter or 3rd round project? Easy decision in my eyes. We can then get his backup in the 4th round in Sammie Lee Hill out of Stillman. Now we need a few more DE's for our new defense. We have Marcus Thomas and Kenny Peterson but who knows how well they'll translate at that position and we need depth there anyways. I look for us to pick up a guy here through free agency and one through the draft as well. Igor Olshansky would not be too pricey and has started in the 3-4 defense his whole career. We also have SD's old D-Line coach to recruit him to the orange and blue. I also want to bring in Chris Canty from the Cowboys. We now have two guys that have played DE in a 3-4 and played well.

[27atwater]

I like Worrell Williams or Jasper Brinkley in rd4. We should go Raji, Everette Brown or Tyon Jackson in rd1. imho

[ayjackson]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

DJ can maybe play inside in a 3-4 and do well, but IMO he will need a 250 pound partner to play the other inside spot. DJ a tad small in the way he plays to be the biggest force inside in a 3-4. He could be a good compliment to a bigger player like Ray Lewis etc.

I recall Belichick being high on DJ when we drafted him. DJ seems like an older, slightly worn down version of Jerod Mayo.

He needs the bigger ILB to take on the point of the running attack and shed occupy/shed a guard. Ray Lewis allegedly hates this role, and likes a defence that keeps him free to make plays.

If we could make one splashy FA signing, it might be Karlos Dansby. That would give our defence an area of immediate strength. We could bring in less splashy signings at DE (Mike Wright) and safety to help stabilize our lineup prior to the draft.

IF we went into the draft with a defence of:

DE - Thomas
NT - Powell
DE - Wright
OLB - Moss/Colvin
ILB - Dansby
ILB - DJ
OLB - Dumerville/Crowder
CB - Bailey
SS - Barrett
FS - Otogwe
CB - Bly

it would give us some freedom to take best value at any position (whichever potential pick offers the most improvement to our defence).

I don't think these signings would break the bank.

[Br0nc0Buster]

I think we do
DJ and Larsen

They may not be perfect, but I think we have more pressing needs
Like OLB and Dline

[montrose]

I think you have to look towards this year and long-term. Long-term I'm sure McDaniels and Xanders want to move to a 3-4, but we may be playing a hybrid this season.

Now if Xanders, McDaniels and Nolan believe Maualuga is their guy at #12 - by all means take him. However, considering the number of needs and the fact we might be looking at a hybrid, I think we can get by for a season with DJ and Larsen as the ILB's in the 3-4 and Larsen as the MLB in the 4-3 with DJ playing WLB. Larsen would obviously come off the field in 3rd down situations. Again, if they think Maulauga is the guy, take him - but I don't think we HAVE to take a MLB in round 1 or 2.

[Broncos_OTM]

Originally Posted by montrose

I think you have to look towards this year and long-term. Long-term I'm sure McDaniels and Xanders want to move to a 3-4, but we may be playing a hybrid this season.

Now if Xanders, McDaniels and Nolan believe Maualuga is their guy at #12 - by all means take him. However, considering the number of needs and the fact we might be looking at a hybrid, I think we can get by for a season with DJ and Larsen as the ILB's in the 3-4 and Larsen as the MLB in the 4-3 with DJ playing WLB. Larsen would obviously come off the field in 3rd down situations. Again, if they think Maulauga is the guy, take him - but I don't think we HAVE to take a MLB in round 1 or 2.

aggreed. One reason shanny tried Larsen at Fulback is becasue he loves contact. and would be ideal in a 3-4 SILB position.

Above all we need someone to put down a tempo for this defense to run on. We need a fire eater much like Maulauga but do we really wanna take the risk here?

And if we do transition to a 3-4 D How do we draft if we most likely will run the hybrid.

So many questions good thing we got two weeks to see how we will most likely draft.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by montrose

I think you have to look towards this year and long-term. Long-term I'm sure McDaniels and Xanders want to move to a 3-4, but we may be playing a hybrid this season.

Now if Xanders, McDaniels and Nolan believe Maualuga is their guy at #12 - by all means take him. However, considering the number of needs and the fact we might be looking at a hybrid, I think we can get by for a season with DJ and Larsen as the ILB's in the 3-4 and Larsen as the MLB in the 4-3 with DJ playing WLB. Larsen would obviously come off the field in 3rd down situations. Again, if they think Maulauga is the guy, take him - but I don't think we HAVE to take a MLB in round 1 or 2.

If DJ is the WILB and Larsen is the SILB, where does this leave WW?

How could be play at OLB when those guys are basically large (250-265) LB/DE hybrids who are pass rushing specialists? That's not WW. He's 220-230. He's not much of a sack artist. Where does he fit in this? He has to fit somewhere. Is it at SS? And if so, where does that leave Barrett?

[Broncos_OTM]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

If DJ is the WILB and Larsen is the SILB, where does this leave WW?

How could be play at OLB when those guys are basically large (250-265) LB/DE hybrids who are pass rushing specialists? That's not WW. He's 220-230. He's not much of a sack artist. Where does he fit in this? He has to fit somewhere. Is it at SS? And if so, where does that leave Barrett?

I think alot of people had him as a S/LB prospect. and i am just saying what i think is gonna happen is he is gonna be moved to S

*ducks*

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

If DJ is the WILB and Larsen is the SILB, where does this leave WW?

How could be play at OLB when those guys are basically large (250-265) LB/DE hybrids who are pass rushing specialists? That's not WW. He's 220-230. He's not much of a sack artist. Where does he fit in this? He has to fit somewhere. Is it at SS? And if so, where does that leave Barrett?

Let's be honest. There's nowhere for WW in a 3-4, other than being traded to a 4-3 team for a good draft pick.

[Mediator12]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

If DJ is the WILB and Larsen is the SILB, where does this leave WW?

How could be play at OLB when those guys are basically large (250-265) LB/DE hybrids who are pass rushing specialists? That's not WW. He's 220-230. He's not much of a sack artist. Where does he fit in this? He has to fit somewhere. Is it at SS? And if so, where does that leave Barrett?

I hate to be the guy who says this, but moving to a 3-4 leaves WW in a huge bind. He is undersized for a 4-3 LB and doubly so for a 3-4. I am always for finding a guy who can play, no matter the size, but this one could really hurt him in DEN if they go 3-4. Especially since the new regime has little ties to an UDFA from last year.

It's not like I do not think he can play, its just not a good situation for WW and this new defense.

BTW, Are you ever going to answer my invitation to CO GM with me

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

If DJ is the WILB and Larsen is the SILB, where does this leave WW?

How could be play at OLB when those guys are basically large (250-265) LB/DE hybrids who are pass rushing specialists? That's not WW. He's 220-230. He's not much of a sack artist. Where does he fit in this? He has to fit somewhere. Is it at SS? And if so, where does that leave Barrett?

Playing in the nickle package and other sub packages.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Mediator12

I hate to be the guy who says this, but moving to a 3-4 leaves WW in a huge bind. He is undersized for a 4-3 LB and doubly so for a 3-4. I am always for finding a guy who can play, no matter the size, but this one could really hurt him in DEN if they go 3-4. Especially since the new regime has little ties to an UDFA from last year.

It's not like I do not think he can play, its just not a good situation for WW and this new defense.

BTW, Are you ever going to answer my invitation to CO GM with me

Yeah..I think the 3-4 hurts WW even more than it hurts DJ. I don't like a hybrid defense, either. That will just hurt the development of the defense long term by reducing their reps in the system that will be used long term. It reduces transition costs, but since we're not going to the playoffs next year anyway with this schedule, I'd rather have the long term benefit rather than the ease of transition.

I thought I had answered your question already re: co-GM'ing, but if I didn't, I'll answer it now. As I told Florida Bronco, I am not going to participate in the mock draft this year in any capacity (in either mock draft).

In any case, I still think DEN absolutely has to take Raji at 12 if he is there. Then if a guy like Larry English or Sintim is there at 42, that probably should be the next selection, unless someone like Louis Delmas or Rashad Johnson is still there, since 3-4 OLB is not as dire as S, since I think Doom can hack one of those spots.

[montrose]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

If DJ is the WILB and Larsen is the SILB, where does this leave WW?

How could be play at OLB when those guys are basically large (250-265) LB/DE hybrids who are pass rushing specialists? That's not WW. He's 220-230. He's not much of a sack artist. Where does he fit in this? He has to fit somewhere. Is it at SS? And if so, where does that leave Barrett?

I don't think WW is here long-term beyond reserve/STer. Maybe he could transition to SS, but I doubt it. If we could get a pick for him, I'd say go ahead and do it because he doesn't fit in long-term.

Per Barrett, I don't know if he has the smarts McDaniels/Nolan will demand from their defenders. At the most, he'll be given a shot to compete but I don't think we can slot-in any of these guys to needing specific positions as none of the coaches or F.O. guys who brought them in are still here.