The Main Problem was Jeff Goodman? - The Orange Mane

cmhargrove · 02-13-2009, 05:25 AM

Sounds like the conflict was happening more with the son of the "father-son" team from articles published today. The Denverpost says there was anxiety between the son (Jeff Goodman) and Xanders (read DP article).

Also, from the CBS Denver station, you can watch the clips where they say many doubted Jeff Goodman's ability to perform as "Assistant General Manager."

So. it looks like job conflicts lead to this "streamlining."

Bowlen had to decide to clear things up when there were several differing opinions. Organizationally, it is a good move, but time will tell if we miss Jim Goodman's scouting expertise.

Broncos shake up front office
By Lindsay H. Jones and Mike Klis
The Denver Post
POSTED: 02/13/2009 12:30:00 AM MST
UPDATED: 02/13/2009 12:56:11 AM MST

Brian Xanders (The Denver Post)
Pat Bowlen again has made a major change atop the Broncos organization.

Less than two months after Bowlen fired coach Mike Shanahan and hired Josh McDaniels, the team owner on Thursday appointed Brian Xanders as the team's sole general manager and fired Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman.

The decision effectively disbands the three-man team that had been running the team's personnel department for the past year.

Jim Goodman had been the vice president of football operations and was in charge of player evaluation. Jeff Goodman, who is Jim's son, had shared the title of assistant general manager with Xanders for a year.

"Really, what I was interested in doing was resetting the way we do business around here," Bowlen said Thursday in a telephone interview. "Brian Xanders was what I considered a true general manager."

Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him.

"We've really changed the complexion of this organization," Bowlen said. "I think it's going to help big-time."

Still, Thursday's moves were a surprise considering comments Bowlen and McDaniels made after the new coach was hired Jan. 12. At that time, Bowlen reiterated statements he made after Shanahan's firing that he didn't anticipate any changes in the personnel department, while McDaniels had said Jim Goodman would have the final say in personnel decisions.

Bowlen's decision surprised the Goodmans, who up until early Thursday afternoon were at work, evaluating players for free agency and the upcoming draft. Both father and son had represented the Broncos at the Senior Bowl in Alabama last month.

"I thank Mr. Bowlen for the opportunity he gave me," Jeff Goodman said Thursday evening. "I wish Brian and Josh the best of luck going forward. It's a class organization that will continue to have success in the future. I'm proud of what we've accomplished in the short period of time that I was here, made a lot of good relationships and look forward to seeing the Broncos have success in the future."

Bowlen said he knew the decision to streamline the personnel department, with Xanders at the top, would leave Jeff Goodman "disenfranchised."

Bowlen acknowledged some "anxiety" between Jeff Goodman and Xanders as they shared duties, and though Bowlen said there was no friction in their relationship, it was inevitable that the one not picked to be GM would have to leave.

"My decision was to pick Brian as the general manager, and once I did that I don't think Jeff felt — he didn't come out and say this — but he felt he should have moved on," Bowlen said. "I think he should move on to a different organization and become a general manager."

By going with Xanders, that also meant proceeding without Jim Goodman, who had been with the Broncos for 11 years. Bowlen said he didn't think Jim would be comfortable staying without Jeff.

"I don't think it would have worked," Bowlen said. "Knowing Jim for a long time, I have a great deal of respect for him. Jim is a top-notch guy who could run anybody's scouting department. And I felt he should be given that opportunity."

Xanders was hired last May as an assistant GM after spending 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons. His expertise is in the business side of personnel matters, especially in dealing with the salary cap and contract negotiations. Though Xanders does have experience in player evaluation, Bowlen said he expects to hire someone else — likely someone with prior connections to either Xanders or McDaniels — to be in charge of scouting.

"I am humbled by this opportunity and accept it as a great challenge on behalf of our fans, our community, Mr. Bowlen and the organization. I am excited to work together with Coach McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games," Xanders said in a statement released by the team.

This is the second overhaul of the Broncos' front office in less than a year after Shanahan fired former general manager Ted Sundquist on March 12.

cmhargrove · 02-13-2009, 05:27 AM

Here are some good analysis clips from the sports dept at CBS4 Denver. They also shed a little insight:

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

bowtown · 02-13-2009, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him.

I'm sorry, what a I missing here?

Dedhed · 02-13-2009, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowtown

I'm sorry, what a I missing here?

Maybe that some coaches don't get the final say on player personnel?

bowtown · 02-13-2009, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dedhed

Maybe that some coaches don't get the final say on player personnel?

Yes. I realize that, thank you. Yet one of the main reasons Bowlen gave for firing Shanahan is that he didn't want the head coach to have the final say anymore. He was taking back the power... thank God he so quickly decided to hand it right back over to a 32 year-old nobody.

DenverBrit · 02-13-2009, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

Here are some good analysis clips from the sports dept at CBS4 Denver. They also shed a little insight:

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

These reports give the situation some clarity.

Bowlen wants the best possible FO team.....Jeff Goodman was definitely a weak link whereas Xanders is well respected in the league.
Bowlen will get control of his team again, who can blame him?

Most here didn't like Shanhan's player evaluations so why would his FO office choices be any better??

The moves look like good business practices, but that won't stop the OMG!!! WTF!! crowd from melting down.

TonyR · 02-13-2009, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

The moves look like good business practices, but that won't stop the OMG!!! WTF!! crowd from melting down.

I agree with you, DB, but the one legit concern is getting rid of your player personnel/talent eval core after the Senior Bowl and so close to FA. Unless they have another experienced player personnel/talent evaluation person(s) ready to step in this move is questionable in that regard. But overall, since we don't know the whole story, I'm not going to panic and I'm going to hope and trust that they know what they're doing!

cmhargrove · 02-13-2009, 06:27 AM

This was taken from a RockuMountainNews Article published in 2008 after Sundquist was released. This outlined what each party actually did:

"What they do

The Broncos have a three-pronged power base that reports to coach Mike Shanahan.

* Jim Goodman, vice president of football operations/player personnel: In charge of pro and college scouting. Will dabble in pro scouting and negotiations, but main emphasis will be coordinating the college scouts and draft while making sure daily operations on the football side run smoothly.

* Jeff Goodman, assistant general manager: Oversees pro personnel department on a daily basis. Cross-checks and analyzes pro players. Frequently serves as point man on contract negotiations, including upcoming talks on draft-pick signings. In charge of Broncos' security detail.

* Brian Xanders, assistant general manager: Chief role is long- and short-term salary-cap management and cash management. Also handles contract negotiations with both Goodmans and Mike Bluem, the team's director of football administration. Contributor in player personnel."

It sounds like Jim Goodman was responsible for overseeing and "dabbling" in pro scouting, but he was mainly responsible for coordinating the scouts themselves.

Both Jeff G and Xanders were working with contracts and signings.

So, with the new power shakeup, it was the 30 year old Assistant GM (Jeff G) against the 37 year old Xanders.

Bowlen had to make a choice, that looks like common sense. Unfortunately, losing Jim Goodman could bite us, depending on how much "dabbling" he actually did.

On the DenverBroncos.com website, all our scouts are still listed (including the youngest Goodman - Tyler). If that crew is the same scouting crew we have used the past few years, I don't see what the main issue is. They will just be reporting to Xanders, rather than Jim Goodman.

We might all be over reacting a little.

Schism · 02-13-2009, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowtown

Yes. I realize that, thank you. Yet one of the main reasons Bowlen gave for firing Shanahan is that he didn't want the head coach to have the final say anymore. He was taking back the power... thank God he so quickly decided to hand it right back over to a 32 year-old nobody.

The real reason is most likely that Bowlen thought that Shanahan was clueless when getting in players on defense, and knew that we could never reasonably expect to compete with Shanny ruling over everything.

But he's not going to come out and say that now is he?

Most likely he has more faith in McDaniels getting in the right guys on that side of the ball, so he's happy to let him run with it. Whether that faith is justified, only time will tell.

There's really no right or wrong way to do things, it's about finding a way that works. Bowlen is clearly intent on doing this, and it really could end up in complete disaster. Or, it could work a charm and set us up for years. There's really no way of knowing at this point, this time next year we'll know whether Pat's drunken escapades are justified or not.

cmhargrove · 02-13-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schism

The real reason is most likely that Bowlen thought that Shanahan was clueless when getting in players on defense, and knew that we could never reasonably expect to compete with Shanny ruling over everything.

But he's not going to come out and say that now is he?

Most likely he has more faith in McDaniels getting in the right guys on that side of the ball, so he's happy to let him run with it. Whether that faith is justified, only time will tell.

There's really no right or wrong way to do things, it's about finding a way that works. Bowlen is clearly intent on doing this, and it really could end up in complete disaster. Or, it could work a charm and set us up for years. There's really no way of knowing at this point, this time next year we'll know whether Pat's drunken escapades are justified or not.

I think it's becoming clearer with every new bit of information that this was just a conflict between two guys with overlapping jobs.

Remember that Shanny really built way too many managers into his organization. A couple years ago, we had "assistant head coaches" of offense and defense, and they weren't even the coordinators.

Shanny built way too many levels of management, and those are being taken apart. Organizationally, that is an excellent decision. The real question is - did we pick the right guy to be GM? Otherwise, the structural changes are very good for the Broncos.

You or I would have been lynched by stockholders for creating on organization with so many levels of overlapping duties and middle management.

DenverBrit · 02-13-2009, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

I think it's becoming clearer with every new bit of information that this was just a conflict between two guys with overlapping jobs.

Remember that Shanny really built way too many managers into his organization. A couple years ago, we had "assistant head coaches" of offense and defense, and they weren't even the coordinators.

Shanny built way too many levels of management, and those are being taken apart. Organizationally, that is an excellent decision. The real question is - did we pick the right guy to be GM? Otherwise, the structural changes are very good for the Broncos.

You or I would have been lynched by stockholders for creating on organization with so many levels of overlapping duties and middle management.

Exactly! Bowlen is a business man and simply said "enough!" Anyone who has owned or run a business would understand these moves.
It had become a clusterI'd like to crawl in the same snuggie with and the organizational chart no longer made sense.
Take back the reigns, reorganize and now we'll wait to see if the choices work out.

oubronco · 02-13-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

These reports give the situation some clarity.

Bowlen wants the best possible FO team.....Jeff Goodman was definitely a weak link whereas Xanders is well respected in the league.
Bowlen will get control of his team again, who can blame him?

Most here didn't like Shanhan's player evaluations so why would his FO office choices be any better??

The moves look like good business practices, but that won't stop the OMG!!! WTF!! crowd from melting down.

I believe it had more to do with the timing

cmhargrove · 02-13-2009, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

I believe it had more to do with the timing

Imagine going into draft day with three competing voices.

Kaylore · 02-13-2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Bowlen's decision surprised the Goodmans, who up until early Thursday afternoon were at work, evaluating players for free agency and the upcoming draft. Both father and son had represented the Broncos at the Senior Bowl in Alabama last month.

Well that's just great. I hope we kept some of their notes.

DenverBrit · 02-13-2009, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

I believe it had more to do with the timing

When would the timing be right?

Not before McDaniels had been able to work with the Goodmans and Xanders.
It was going to take a little time to evaluate the working relationship.

The reports so far show that Bowlen made a decision as quickly as possible.
If the Goodmans had been fired along with Shanny, I can only imagine the meltdown on the mane.

Bowlen wouldn't just be a "drunk", he'd be on "crack/heroin/shrooms/opium" too!

oubronco · 02-13-2009, 07:19 AM

I was responding to your qoute about the OMG!!! WTF!! crowd from melting down

bowtown · 02-13-2009, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

When would the timing be right?

Not before McDaniels had been able to work with the Goodmans and Xanders.
It was going to take a little time to evaluate the working relationship.

The reports so far show that Bowlen made a decision as quickly as possible.
If the Goodmans had been fired along with Shanny, I can only imagine the meltdown on the mane.

Bowlen wouldn't just be a "drunk", he'd be on "crack/heroin/shrooms/opium" too!

Seriously? I don't think people would have melted down any more strongly if Bowlen had decided to just purge all of the old guard at once. It's mickey mouse KFC bull**** to be firing these guys weeks later.

DenverBrit · 02-13-2009, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

I was responding to your qoute about the OMG!!! WTF!! crowd from melting down

Which is why I asked... "when would the timing be right"? No biggie.

Rohirrim · 02-13-2009, 07:31 AM

That's a shame. He was great in The Big Lebowski.

DenverBrit · 02-13-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowtown

Seriously? I don't think people would have melted down any more strongly if Bowlen had decided to just purge all of the old guard at once. It's mickey mouse KFC bull**** to be firing these guys weeks later.

We don't know what really happened. But one thing is becoming clear. Jeff Goodman had been promoted way above his ability.
The "Peter Principal" should have kicked in much earlier.

Peter Principal

Quote:

In an organizational structure, the Peter Principle's practical application allows assessment of the potential of an employee for a promotion based on performance in the current job, i.e. members of a hierarchical organization eventually are promoted to their highest level of competence, after which further promotion raises them to incompetence.

oubronco · 02-13-2009, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

Which is why I asked... "when would the timing be right"? No biggie.

Hell I don't know I'm just a country boy

DenverBrit · 02-13-2009, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

Hell I don't know I'm just a country boy

I'm not falling for it......I spent several years in OKC.

Witness protection program.

Cool Breeze · 02-13-2009, 08:13 AM

They got the wrong Goodman...

oubronco · 02-13-2009, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverBrit

I'm not falling for it......I spent several years in OKC.

Witness protection program.

scratchin my head

tsiguy96 · 02-13-2009, 08:54 AM

to be fair, there are a LOT of people who think that the coach should have say over who is on his team. not 100% control, but a good say in it. i agree with them, regardless of who the coach is.

i think the GM/scouts should be there to supply information and help guide the process, make recommendations etc, but the coach should find the people he wnats to play in his system.

02-13-2009, 05:25 AM	#1
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,409 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	The Main Problem was Jeff Goodman? Sounds like the conflict was happening more with the son of the "father-son" team from articles published today. The Denverpost says there was anxiety between the son (Jeff Goodman) and Xanders (read DP article). Also, from the CBS Denver station, you can watch the clips where they say many doubted Jeff Goodman's ability to perform as "Assistant General Manager." So. it looks like job conflicts lead to this "streamlining." Bowlen had to decide to clear things up when there were several differing opinions. Organizationally, it is a good move, but time will tell if we miss Jim Goodman's scouting expertise. Broncos shake up front office By Lindsay H. Jones and Mike Klis The Denver Post POSTED: 02/13/2009 12:30:00 AM MST UPDATED: 02/13/2009 12:56:11 AM MST Brian Xanders (The Denver Post) Pat Bowlen again has made a major change atop the Broncos organization. Less than two months after Bowlen fired coach Mike Shanahan and hired Josh McDaniels, the team owner on Thursday appointed Brian Xanders as the team's sole general manager and fired Jim Goodman and Jeff Goodman. The decision effectively disbands the three-man team that had been running the team's personnel department for the past year. Jim Goodman had been the vice president of football operations and was in charge of player evaluation. Jeff Goodman, who is Jim's son, had shared the title of assistant general manager with Xanders for a year. "Really, what I was interested in doing was resetting the way we do business around here," Bowlen said Thursday in a telephone interview. "Brian Xanders was what I considered a true general manager." Xanders, 37, will be in charge of player personnel issues, including scouting and contract negotiations, though McDaniels will likely have the final say in selecting the roster. Bowlen said Xanders and McDaniels will independently report to him. "We've really changed the complexion of this organization," Bowlen said. "I think it's going to help big-time." Still, Thursday's moves were a surprise considering comments Bowlen and McDaniels made after the new coach was hired Jan. 12. At that time, Bowlen reiterated statements he made after Shanahan's firing that he didn't anticipate any changes in the personnel department, while McDaniels had said Jim Goodman would have the final say in personnel decisions. Bowlen's decision surprised the Goodmans, who up until early Thursday afternoon were at work, evaluating players for free agency and the upcoming draft. Both father and son had represented the Broncos at the Senior Bowl in Alabama last month. "I thank Mr. Bowlen for the opportunity he gave me," Jeff Goodman said Thursday evening. "I wish Brian and Josh the best of luck going forward. It's a class organization that will continue to have success in the future. I'm proud of what we've accomplished in the short period of time that I was here, made a lot of good relationships and look forward to seeing the Broncos have success in the future." Bowlen said he knew the decision to streamline the personnel department, with Xanders at the top, would leave Jeff Goodman "disenfranchised." Bowlen acknowledged some "anxiety" between Jeff Goodman and Xanders as they shared duties, and though Bowlen said there was no friction in their relationship, it was inevitable that the one not picked to be GM would have to leave. "My decision was to pick Brian as the general manager, and once I did that I don't think Jeff felt — he didn't come out and say this — but he felt he should have moved on," Bowlen said. "I think he should move on to a different organization and become a general manager." By going with Xanders, that also meant proceeding without Jim Goodman, who had been with the Broncos for 11 years. Bowlen said he didn't think Jim would be comfortable staying without Jeff. "I don't think it would have worked," Bowlen said. "Knowing Jim for a long time, I have a great deal of respect for him. Jim is a top-notch guy who could run anybody's scouting department. And I felt he should be given that opportunity." Xanders was hired last May as an assistant GM after spending 14 years with the Atlanta Falcons. His expertise is in the business side of personnel matters, especially in dealing with the salary cap and contract negotiations. Though Xanders does have experience in player evaluation, Bowlen said he expects to hire someone else — likely someone with prior connections to either Xanders or McDaniels — to be in charge of scouting. "I am humbled by this opportunity and accept it as a great challenge on behalf of our fans, our community, Mr. Bowlen and the organization. I am excited to work together with Coach McDaniels and put our collective resources into winning football games," Xanders said in a statement released by the team. This is the second overhaul of the Broncos' front office in less than a year after Shanahan fired former general manager Ted Sundquist on March 12. Last edited by cmhargrove; 02-13-2009 at 05:37 AM..

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02-13-2009, 05:27 AM	#2
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,409 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	Here are some good analysis clips from the sports dept at CBS4 Denver. They also shed a little insight: http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com http://www.cbs4denver.com/video/?id=...nc.dayport.com

02-13-2009, 06:27 AM	#8
cmhargrove Is this thing on??? Travis Henry's love child... Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 6,409 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Hillis	This was taken from a RockuMountainNews Article published in 2008 after Sundquist was released. This outlined what each party actually did: "What they do The Broncos have a three-pronged power base that reports to coach Mike Shanahan. * Jim Goodman, vice president of football operations/player personnel: In charge of pro and college scouting. Will dabble in pro scouting and negotiations, but main emphasis will be coordinating the college scouts and draft while making sure daily operations on the football side run smoothly. * Jeff Goodman, assistant general manager: Oversees pro personnel department on a daily basis. Cross-checks and analyzes pro players. Frequently serves as point man on contract negotiations, including upcoming talks on draft-pick signings. In charge of Broncos' security detail. * Brian Xanders, assistant general manager: Chief role is long- and short-term salary-cap management and cash management. Also handles contract negotiations with both Goodmans and Mike Bluem, the team's director of football administration. Contributor in player personnel." It sounds like Jim Goodman was responsible for overseeing and "dabbling" in pro scouting, but he was mainly responsible for coordinating the scouts themselves. Both Jeff G and Xanders were working with contracts and signings. So, with the new power shakeup, it was the 30 year old Assistant GM (Jeff G) against the 37 year old Xanders. Bowlen had to make a choice, that looks like common sense. Unfortunately, losing Jim Goodman could bite us, depending on how much "dabbling" he actually did. On the DenverBroncos.com website, all our scouts are still listed (including the youngest Goodman - Tyler). If that crew is the same scouting crew we have used the past few years, I don't see what the main issue is. They will just be reporting to Xanders, rather than Jim Goodman. We might all be over reacting a little.

02-13-2009, 07:19 AM	#16
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,604	I was responding to your qoute about the OMG!!! WTF!! crowd from melting down

02-13-2009, 07:31 AM	#19
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,842	That's a shame. He was great in The Big Lebowski.

02-13-2009, 08:13 AM	#23
Cool Breeze Ring of Famer Broncos Rock! Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: south of town Posts: 1,221	They got the wrong Goodman...

02-13-2009, 08:54 AM	#25
tsiguy96 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 12,559 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	to be fair, there are a LOT of people who think that the coach should have say over who is on his team. not 100% control, but a good say in it. i agree with them, regardless of who the coach is. i think the GM/scouts should be there to supply information and help guide the process, make recommendations etc, but the coach should find the people he wnats to play in his system.