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View Poll Results: Should "Gutless" be stickied until Pat passes a comprehensive mental health exam?
Yes 33 55.00%
No 27 45.00%
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:28 AM   #1
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Should the Gutless Drunk thread be stickied until Pat can pass a thorough mental health exam?

Yea or nay?
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Old 02-13-2009, 05:04 AM   #2
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I went with no. It should be stickied until these "organizational moves" prove to be at all useful. I am not jumping all over Bowlen and calling him Al Davis, but at the same time I am not looking at the Broncos with orange tinted glasses right now. We have a very easy line to evaluate these moves, 8-8. If next season we have a winning football team, good moves. If not, then not so much. At the time I thought the Shanahan move was boneheaded, but not neccesarily catastrophic. I have the same feeling about the Goodmans, the recent drafts make me wonder why this happened, but maybe there is a plan. I will wait and see, but the gutless thread should be stickied until it is clear if these moves had an overall plan or if Bowlen got so scared by a 3 game skid that he **** the bed. At the very least it will isolate all the b****ing into one central location.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:27 AM   #3
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Bowlen went from the 'best owner in sports' to a "gutless drunk". Why??

Because he decided to try and win more than one playoff game each decade??

He's a good franchise owner who is trying to get his team back on track.

People get scared of change, melt down and then stupidly lash out.
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:30 AM   #4
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Bowlen went from the 'best owner in sports' to a "gutless drunk". Why??

Because he decided to try and win more than one playoff game each decade??

He's a good franchise owner who is trying to get his team back on track.

People get scared of change, melt down and then stupidly lash out.
What? You mean here on the Mane? When has that ever happened?
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Old 02-13-2009, 07:41 AM   #5
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What? You mean here on the Mane? When has that ever happened?
Hang on, I'll try and find a thread.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:08 AM   #6
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We finally got someone who knows what they're doing in the draft and he cans them a week before the combine. Yeah, I'm not terribly shocked people are upset.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:44 AM   #7
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I don't get the Gutless part. Gutless was the fords with millen. Bowlen is the antigutless.
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Old 02-13-2009, 08:51 AM   #8
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I only regret not making this public...
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:06 AM   #9
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I only regret not making this public...
I'm ashamed of you.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:15 AM   #10
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We finally got someone who knows what they're doing in the draft and he cans them a week before the combine. Yeah, I'm not terribly shocked people are upset.
Truth is you nor anyone else here know exactly who is responsible for our recent great drafts. Your concerns are based on speculation.

In order for the arguments you guys are making to be valid Bowlen would have to be a total idiot and he clearly is not. If Bowlen is guilty of anything it is being overly loyal.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:17 AM   #11
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I'm ashamed of you.
Haven't I punished myself enough?!?!?!?!
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:19 AM   #12
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Truth is you nor anyone else here know exactly who is responsible for our recent great drafts. Your concerns are based on speculation.

In order for the arguments you guys are making to be valid Bowlen would have to be a total idiot and he clearly is not. If Bowlen is guilty of anything it is being overly loyal.
Well, Shanahan did go out of his way to credit the Goodmans solely for it instead of taking any of the credit for himself, so that's a pretty good indicator.

But one thing's for sure, it sure as **** wasn't Xanders responsible for the great drafts!
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:20 AM   #13
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Truth is you nor anyone else here know exactly who is responsible for our recent great drafts. Your concerns are based on speculation.

There's always reading...
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:34 AM   #14
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Royal was Shanahan's guy. The Goodman's only made him restrain himself from trading up to into the first to get him. Clady was sort of a gift. They said no one in the room thought he would last past KC because of how high they rated him. The rest is probably the Goodman's. I guess we'll find out pretty quick how good McDaniels/Xanders is at evaluating talent. I'm not optimistic.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:43 AM   #15
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There's always reading...

Part of the fun of following an NFL team is speculating on all the off season moves that is why most of us are here 365 days a year but if you think you can come with an informed opinion on the inner workings of the front office of an NFL team you are mistaken.

We are all major fans but we will never be able to "read" in public publications detailed enough information to make an informed decision about the real workings of the FO.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:47 AM   #16
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Again, most of our big hits in the draft have been #1 or #2 picks. Clady/Cutler were high on all draft boards.

Hillis was a great steal at the end of the draft.
Marshall was a nice pick at 119. Harris a good round 3 pick.

But, we've struck out entirely on defense, including a first/second round pick.

So, again... it's not like we've just sent Bill Walsh packing, here. The goodmans showed some promise and made some nice picks, and some not so nice picks. We're three years into .500 football.

I'm only going to spend so much energy crying about their departure. Let's see how things play out, and then we can all have a big weep-session if they flail.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:56 AM   #17
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Again, most of our big hits in the draft have been #1 or #2 picks. Clady/Cutler were high on all draft boards.

Hillis was a great steal at the end of the draft.
Marshall was a nice pick at 119. Harris a good round 3 pick.

But, we've struck out entirely on defense, including a first/second round pick.

So, again... it's not like we've just sent Bill Walsh packing, here. The goodmans showed some promise and made some nice picks, and some not so nice picks. We're three years into .500 football.

I'm only going to spend so much energy crying about their departure. Let's see how things play out, and then we can all have a big weep-session if they flail.
What?

Harris played as well as Clady as a 3rd rounder.
Marshall's our only home grown pro bowl starter since Portis
Kuper was amazing last season
Elvis, Hillis, Woodyard, Thomas... and maybe Barrett, Larsen, Powell, etc

How do you get most are from the first two rounds?
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:12 AM   #18
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I think Bowlen screwed the pooch.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:14 AM   #19
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Rev, come on man....

one afc west title in 10 yrs?

one playoff win 10 yrs?

why not shake it up?

you need to let go of shanahan, its over.

the worst defense in team history since 1960 something?

good grief sir!
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:14 AM   #20
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There's always reading...
As Kaylore pointed out with his example of Eddie Royal... we really have no idea what went on behind the scenes. You can read, and assume you're getting the whole story, if you'd like. Not always a good practice, though.

Personally, I think Shanahan's stink was all over these drafts... which is why the offensive picks worked out great and we still haven't drafted a Pro Bowl defender in 10 ****in' years.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:17 AM   #21
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What?

Harris played as well as Clady as a 3rd rounder.
Marshall's our only home grown pro bowl starter since Portis
Kuper was amazing last season
Elvis, Hillis, Woodyard, Thomas... and maybe Barrett, Larsen, Powell, etc

How do you get most are from the first two rounds?
O.K... taking linemen in the middle rounds and having them work out is...

A. A brand new thing that the Goodmans started.

B. Something Shanahan has done his entire career.

As for Harris, I mentioned him as a solid player where he was taken. Same for some of the young guys like Woodyard. Hillis was a steal where he was taken.

But, take away Cutler and Clady, and what do we have? Those were top 12 picks.

Again, they've done fine. I'm just not sold that they're the end-all just yet.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:17 AM   #22
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Rev, come on man....

one afc west title in 10 yrs?

one playoff win 10 yrs?

why not shake it up?

you need to let go of shanahan, its over.

the worst defense in team history since 1960 something?

good grief sir!
Right. I let go of Shanahan.

And Bowlen let go of the best thing to happen to our draft process in Bronco history.

This is an entirely seperate issue and until McDaniel's proves to be an incredible talent evaluator on the same level as Jim Goodman, it's a step backward.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:21 AM   #23
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O.K... taking linemen in the middle rounds and having them work out is...

A. A brand new thing that the Goodmans started.

B. Something Shanahan has done his entire career.

As for Harris, I mentioned him as a solid player where he was taken. Same for some of the young guys like Woodyard. Hillis was a steal where he was taken.

But, take away Cutler and Clady, and what do we have? Those were top 12 picks.

Again, they've done fine. I'm just not sold that they're the end-all just yet.

What the hell are you smoking?!?

Hillis was a steal in the seventh, but Woodyard's only a solid player as an UDFA?!

And take away Cutler and Clady and what do we have?

Hmmm, let's see: How about eleven ****ing starters in 3 years of drafts (and probably more this year), one of which was a pro-bowl starter, and another two who should've been. That's an unheard of hit rate.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:25 AM   #24
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As Kaylore pointed out with his example of Eddie Royal... we really have no idea what went on behind the scenes.
Funny. I personally thought Kaylore's example proved the opposite. We can learn a lot about how the team operates, and get a good intuitive feel for the operation by reading the reports. Is it perfect knowledge? No. But it's enough by which to do some of our own analysis by. Otherwise, what's the point of it?


Quote:
Personally, I think Shanahan's stink was all over these drafts... which is why the offensive picks worked out great and we still haven't drafted a Pro Bowl defender in 10 ****in' years.
The recent drafts are very offense heavy drafts. This is why we're not seeing breakout defenders out of them - because WRs, RBs, QBs, TEs, Gs, and Cs don't get too many reps on that side of the ball.
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Old 02-13-2009, 10:29 AM   #25
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What the hell are you smoking?!?

Hillis was a steal in the seventh, but Woodyard's only a solid player as an UDFA?!

And take away Cutler and Clady and what do we have?

Hmmm, let's see: How about eleven ****ing starters in 3 years of drafts (and probably more this year), one of which was a pro-bowl starter, and another two who should've been. That's an unheard of hit rate.
And yet, no playoff wins. Ironic, ain't it.
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