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Old 02-11-2009, 11:15 AM   #1
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There are solutions to the problem that this franchise has had for the past 10 years (really since the old Orange Crush days) that are out there and available for you to acquire. No longer should you sit idly by on your kiester and watch every good defensive line player in the league make their money and their contributions somewhere else.

Have you wondered why Pittsburgh has won superbowls under two different coaches with a marginal QB and a marginal RB? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

What about Tennessee? Why have they had success with a retread QB, a rookie RB, and a stable of mediocre WR's? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

What about last year's Giants? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

What about the Patriots? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.



Pat, your Denver Broncos franchise will remain mediocre until you yourself place priority in the defensive line. There is no excuse this year. The players are avaiable. The talent is there to finally make this bunch of underachievers competitive.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #2
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Actually, their Oline wasnt that great this year in pass protection. Ben got beat up a lot this year in that dept. I expect the Steelers to address that more this year.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:20 AM   #3
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Our offensive line has been a priority and it's awesome. I put the D-line woes on Shanahan and Sundquist - both of whom are gone. But I know that's going to change. The few defensive rookies we brought in last year were all good (for where they were taken). I think in a few drafts and the occasional free agent move we'll be ok. I finally have faith that we have the staff to draft and develop defensive players.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:22 AM   #4
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Pittsburgh had better see the OL as a priority, seeing as they allowed 46(!) sacks.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:23 AM   #5
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When does FA open up?
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:24 AM   #6
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Pittsburgh had better see the OL as a priority, seeing as they allowed 46(!) sacks.
Wow, damn near 3 a game...that's atrocious.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:24 AM   #7
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Pat got involved in football operations once in 14 years: He fired Mike Shanahan
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:24 AM   #8
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Pittsburgh had better see the OL as a priority, seeing as they allowed 46(!) sacks.
Pittsburgh's run game is the focus of their line. Their focus is where it should be on both sides of the ball.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:28 AM   #9
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Pittsburgh's run game is the focus of their line. Their focus is where it should be on both sides of the ball.
If they want destroy Bens career, than yes, their focus is where it should be.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:29 AM   #10
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Our offensive line has been a priority and it's awesome. I put the D-line woes on Shanahan and Sundquist - both of whom are gone. But I know that's going to change. The few defensive rookies we brought in last year were all good (for where they were taken). I think in a few drafts and the occasional free agent move we'll be ok. I finally have faith that we have the staff to draft and develop defensive players.
I dont have any faith in the staff...save Turner and Dennison. The others we havent seen in Denver, so I dont see any reason as to why someone would put faith in them.

Pat signs the checks. He trusted Shanny to a fault, and I would expect that he be at least a little more involved with his 32 year old coach.

As for the defensive rookies...they sucked. Yeah, a couple of them may have shown that they can be counted on for a couple plays a game, but not a single one of them is the type of contributor that this defense needs. That atrocity we called a defense was probably the biggest disgrace that we have ever seen in orange and blue.

How can you have any faith in that?
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by McSkillet View Post
There are solutions to the problem that this franchise has had for the past 10 years (really since the old Orange Crush days) that are out there and available for you to acquire. No longer should you sit idly by on your kiester and watch every good defensive line player in the league make their money and their contributions somewhere else.

Have you wondered why Pittsburgh has won superbowls under two different coaches with a marginal QB and a marginal RB? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

What about Tennessee? Why have they had success with a retread QB, a rookie RB, and a stable of mediocre WR's? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

What about last year's Giants? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

What about the Patriots? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.



Pat, your Denver Broncos franchise will remain mediocre until you yourself place priority in the defensive line. There is no excuse this year. The players are avaiable. The talent is there to finally make this bunch of underachievers competitive.
Tell that to their best offensive lineman Alan Faneca and Ben Roethlisberger who is in the top 5 for sacks taken over the last 2 years. Pittsburghs offensive line is being helped out by Roethlisberger, it is not the other way around. Look at the super bowl, Roethlisberger had to scramble around on multiplay plays to avoid being turned into a handbag.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:30 AM   #12
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fa begins 2\27
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:31 AM   #13
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Oh, and Parker isn't a marginal RB
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:31 AM   #14
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Tell that to their best offensive lineman Alan Faneca and Ben Roethlisberger who is in the top 5 for sacks taken over the last 2 years. Pittsburghs offensive line is being helped out by Roethlisberger, it is not the other way around. Look at the super bowl, Roethlisberger had to scramble around on multiplay plays to avoid being turned into a handbag.
Part of the reason thats the case is because Ben cant make a read and deliver the ball. He stands back there and waits for one of his guys to create an opening somewhere.

The dude just stands in the pocket like he's brain dead.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:32 AM   #15
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...and Broncos fans should begin applying pressure now.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:32 AM   #16
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There are solutions to the problem that this franchise has had for the past 10 years (really since the old Orange Crush days) that are out there and available for you to acquire. No longer should you sit idly by on your kiester and watch every good defensive line player in the league make their money and their contributions somewhere else.

Have you wondered why Pittsburgh has won superbowls under two different coaches with a marginal QB and a marginal RB? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

That marginal QB is on the fast track to the Hall of Fame. That marginal RB is better than any RB on our current roster.

What about Tennessee? Why have they had success with a retread QB, a rookie RB, and a stable of mediocre WR's? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

Again, that RB is better than any RB on our current roster. How many playoff games have they won with that retread QB?

What about last year's Giants? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

And they have consistency and depth on both. Our o-line is at or almost at that point. Our d-line simply does not have that kind of talent, so you are correct in that statement.

What about the Patriots? Reason #1 - they see their defensive front line as a priority. Reason #2 - they see their offensive line as a priority.

Again, they have consistency on both. Please show me the linemen on the Patriots that they signed to a massive contract as many want us to do with Haynesworth or Peppers. That is not the Patriot way, and hopefully will not be the McDaniels way. There will be good d-linemen available in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks of this draft. And next years. And the year after that. We are not going to magically have a Patriot-like defensive line 6 months after having the worst in the NFL, no matter who we sign. And of course, having number 12 on their side helps make them look good too.

Pat, your Denver Broncos franchise will remain mediocre until you yourself place priority in the defensive line. There is no excuse this year. The players are avaiable. The talent is there to finally make this bunch of underachievers competitive.
We had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL last year. If you want to improve the offense, we should improve the RB position. We have no playmakers out of the backfield. Someone who can go the distance any team, be it on a run up the middle, a toss outside, or (perhaps most importantly in our offense) on a screen or short pass will take us to another level. I'm sure the Hillis fan club is about to jump down my neck for saying this, but we will never be an offense like NE or IND if he is our primary back. We have superstars at QB, WR, LT, RT (Harris is a hoss), and TE if Scheff can ever actually play all 16 games (big if). If anyone here thinks Hillis is as good as Chris Johnson, Willie Parker, or Brandon Jacobs (the backs of the teams in this thread) you need to watch some more games. He is perfect for our FB/change of pace back. But we are handcuffing Jay and the receivers if we pass on a versatile player like a Chris Johnson in favor of Hillis. Give us a RB like that and we literally have a threat at every position on offense, from the slot WR to the FB.

As for the defense, we need good young talent and a good motivator/schemer to coach them up. I'm fine with signing Haynesworth or Peppers as long as we don't completely break the bank for them and as long as we don't abandon the notion that we need to add talent and depth on the d-line in the draft. The Giants d-line was not the best in the league because Tuck is so good. It was the best because every starter was good, and all of their backups were good i.e. they had good players on the field regardless of who was subbed in or out. Now that we have Nolan, I expect us to find quality players and stick with them. They won't be the best in the NFL next year, but we should start seeing steady improvement. That is all we can ask for at this time. Plus with our offense and just an improved defense (middle of the pack) we can make some serious noise.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:33 AM   #17
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Part of the reason thats the case is because Ben cant make a read and deliver the ball. He stands back there and waits for one of his guys to create an opening somewhere.

The dude just stands in the pocket like he's brain dead.

Dude, Pittsburgh's OL is terrible at pass protection. They could have allowed 60+ sacks if Ben wasn't able to shake a tackle and evade rushers.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:33 AM   #18
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Tell that to their best offensive lineman Alan Faneca and Ben Roethlisberger who is in the top 5 for sacks taken over the last 2 years. Pittsburghs offensive line is being helped out by Roethlisberger, it is not the other way around. Look at the super bowl, Roethlisberger had to scramble around on multiplay plays to avoid being turned into a handbag.
DING! WINNER! We have a winner!
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:39 AM   #19
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I dont have any faith in the staff...save Turner and Dennison. The others we havent seen in Denver, so I dont see any reason as to why someone would put faith in them.
Oh the humanity! These coaches aren't coming out of a vacuum, Llama. Everyone one of them has experience. I'll agree McDaniels is unproven, but his record on offense is good and our offense doesn't suck. The entire defensive staff have all done their job before and been effective. I put faith in them because I've seen their work and its excellent.
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Pat signs the checks. He trusted Shanny to a fault, and I would expect that he be at least a little more involved with his 32 year old coach.
The worst owners in the world are the ones who get involved by either A) telling their team not to spend too much, thus limiting what they can do, or B) Going Al Davis/Jerry Jones on them and pretending they are GM's. Pat Bowlen isn't a football mind. What is it you want him to "get involved with" that you think would work? Pat is doing what good leaders do: Hire good people and get out of their way.

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As for the defensive rookies...they sucked. Yeah, a couple of them may have shown that they can be counted on for a couple plays a game, but not a single one of them is the type of contributor that this defense needs.
Yeah Spencer Larson, Wesley Woodyard and Josh Barrett all suck. Powell hasn't even had chance to play yet, Llama.

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That atrocity we called a defense was probably the biggest disgrace that we have ever seen in orange and blue.

How can you have any faith in that?
What is it with you and your Waltonisms?
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:39 AM   #20
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We had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL last year. If you want to improve the offense, we should improve the RB position. We have no playmakers out of the backfield. Someone who can go the distance any team, be it on a run up the middle, a toss outside, or (perhaps most importantly in our offense) on a screen or short pass will take us to another level. I'm sure the Hillis fan club is about to jump down my neck for saying this, but we will never be an offense like NE or IND if he is our primary back. We have superstars at QB, WR, LT, RT (Harris is a hoss), and TE if Scheff can ever actually play all 16 games (big if). If anyone here thinks Hillis is as good as Chris Johnson, Willie Parker, or Brandon Jacobs (the backs of the teams in this thread) you need to watch some more games. He is perfect for our FB/change of pace back. But we are handcuffing Jay and the receivers if we pass on a versatile player like a Chris Johnson in favor of Hillis. Give us a RB like that and we literally have a threat at every position on offense, from the slot WR to the FB.
Our offense needs nothing save consistency and a little depth in a couple of places. It does not need a "star" running back. Those are made by offensive lines like the one we have.

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As for the defense, we need good young talent and a good motivator/schemer to coach them up. I'm fine with signing Haynesworth or Peppers as long as we don't completely break the bank for them and as long as we don't abandon the notion that we need to add talent and depth on the d-line in the draft. The Giants d-line was not the best in the league because Tuck is so good. It was the best because every starter was good, and all of their backups were good i.e. they had good players on the field regardless of who was subbed in or out. Now that we have Nolan, I expect us to find quality players and stick with them. They won't be the best in the NFL next year, but we should start seeing steady improvement. That is all we can ask for at this time. Plus with our offense and just an improved defense (middle of the pack) we can make some serious noise.
I dont agree with your premise that all the defense needs is youth and coaching. As we have seen over the past two seasons, that can be a recipe for disaster. What the defense needs is legitimate playmakers in the front 7. Not just above-average guys like DJ Williams, but guys like Haynesworth and Peppers who can take over games by disrupting the other offense.

The defensive front 7 should be the focus of our draft and our free agent signings.

If it is not, then we can go ahead and declare McDaniels a fool.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:41 AM   #21
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Llama,

What the hell are you talking about?

Pittsburgh, ****ty offensive line and only ONE defensive lineman drafted on the first day.

NE and NY CAN fit the point you're trying to make, but you might want to be clear that the focus should be on developing the players, because you can certainly argue that Denver has invested just as many resources or more than any of those teams.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:45 AM   #22
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We had one of the best offensive lines in the NFL last year. If you want to improve the offense, we should improve the RB position. We have no playmakers out of the backfield. Someone who can go the distance any team, be it on a run up the middle, a toss outside, or (perhaps most importantly in our offense) on a screen or short pass will take us to another level. I'm sure the Hillis fan club is about to jump down my neck for saying this, but we will never be an offense like NE or IND if he is our primary back. We have superstars at QB, WR, LT, RT (Harris is a hoss), and TE if Scheff can ever actually play all 16 games (big if). If anyone here thinks Hillis is as good as Chris Johnson, Willie Parker, or Brandon Jacobs (the backs of the teams in this thread) you need to watch some more games. He is perfect for our FB/change of pace back. But we are handcuffing Jay and the receivers if we pass on a versatile player like a Chris Johnson in favor of Hillis. Give us a RB like that and we literally have a threat at every position on offense, from the slot WR to the FB.

As for the defense, we need good young talent and a good motivator/schemer to coach them up. I'm fine with signing Haynesworth or Peppers as long as we don't completely break the bank for them and as long as we don't abandon the notion that we need to add talent and depth on the d-line in the draft. The Giants d-line was not the best in the league because Tuck is so good. It was the best because every starter was good, and all of their backups were good i.e. they had good players on the field regardless of who was subbed in or out. Now that we have Nolan, I expect us to find quality players and stick with them. They won't be the best in the NFL next year, but we should start seeing steady improvement. That is all we can ask for at this time. Plus with our offense and just an improved defense (middle of the pack) we can make some serious noise.

Well said and on the money.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:47 AM   #23
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Oh the humanity! These coaches aren't coming out of a vacuum, Llama. Everyone one of them has experience. I'll agree McDaniels is unproven, but his record on offense is good and our offense doesn't suck. The entire defensive staff have all done their job before and been effective. I put faith in them because I've seen their work and its excellent.
Thats juvenile, dude. You have faith in them because you have "seen their work"? You mean...you have been in the locker room and in the office and have first hand information about how they will work here?

Nobody knows how this will work. Not a soul. Not Beilichik, not Bowlen, not McDaniels, not Shanny. To say that you believe that they will succeed without any record of head-coaching and managing success if lunacy.


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Yeah Spencer Larson, Wesley Woodyard and Josh Barrett all suck. Powell hasn't even had chance to play yet, Llama.
They did suck. That was possibly the worst defense ever to play in Denver since the AFL-NFL merger.

All you have to do is look at the proof (I know that your into feel-good smiley faith put in 32-year old head coaches and all, but I prefer proof). This defense went down in flames over the second half of the season on a level that made the NFL record books. We went into the last third of the season having drawn a bead on the AFC West title and a trip to the playoffs. Everyone on this board was gulping the kool-aid. Then...an HISTORIC collapse worthy of shame.

Yeah...those players showed promise. Promise enough that they couldn't do anything to get the other offense off of the field. Ever.
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:52 AM   #24
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I seriously cannot talk to you, Llama. You are so far away from "getting it" it's not even worth it.

Seriously, does anyone here even know what DramaLlama is trying to advocate with this thread? Is he saying we should all be terrified that this team is going to fail? Is he saying he wants Pat Bowlen to start running the front office himself? I miss Slap...
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Old 02-11-2009, 11:53 AM   #25
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Our offense needs nothing save consistency and a little depth in a couple of places. It does not need a "star" running back. Those are made by offensive lines like the one we have.

So Adrian Peterson is so good because their o-line is the best in the NFL? We don't necessarily "need" a Chris Johnson type back, but it sure would be nice. We haven't had a legit threat at RB since Portis was traded. He was the man that could take a 6 yard gain and make it 6 points from anywhere on the field. You can't say that about anyone we have now. And I know you aren't saying you wouldn't want that again. But I agree it is not our first priority unless someone just blows us away at the combine.

I dont agree with your premise that all the defense needs is youth and coaching. As we have seen over the past two seasons, that can be a recipe for disaster. What the defense needs is legitimate playmakers in the front 7. Not just above-average guys like DJ Williams, but guys like Haynesworth and Peppers who can take over games by disrupting the other offense.

The defensive front 7 should be the focus of our draft and our free agent signings.

If it is not, then we can go ahead and declare McDaniels a fool.

Name me the last high priced free agent the last 4 Super Bowl winners (Steelers, Giants, Colts, and Patriots) have signed. Plaxico is the only one I can think of, and look how that worked out for them. We do not have to sign Peppers or Haynesworth to build a good defense. That is a myth. The Patriots have let guys like Lawyer Milloy and Asante Samuel walk, and it doesn't stop them from winning. If you want to be consistently good over a long time, you MUST build primarily through the draft and not tie all of your money onto one guy (unless it's a superstar QB). I suppose we should declare Mike Shanahan a fool for trading up and drafting Jay Cutler, or taking Eddie Royal last year (I know people weren't happy at the time about that). We need to focus on the front 7, but not at the expense of taking an outstanding player at, say, RB or S.
Simple as that.
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