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Old 02-02-2009, 09:23 AM   #1
gyldenlove
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I wanted to try a conservative approach to the offseason, no high priced FAs, no significant trades in the draft and no spending of next years draft picks. I will assume that Foxworth resigns with Atlanta and we get a 6th round pick for that.

Resignings:

Kenny Peterson (for DL depth)
Michael Pittman (as a backup RB and short yardage guy)
Karl Paymah (for DB depth, TC fodder)

Free agents:

JJ Arrington (RB depth, speed guy)
Jabar Gaffney (WR depth, knows McDaniels system)
CJ Mosley (DL depth)
Sam Williams (LB depth)
James Sanders (S depth)
Monty Beisel (Starting LB)
Drew Henson (depth QB)

Cuts:

Dewayne Robertson (too expensive)
John Engelberger (too abysmal)
Niko Koutouvides (almost as bad as Engelberger)
Boss Bailey (numbers crunch)
Selvin Young (too injured)

Draft:

12. Brian Cushing, LB, USC (can play across from Dumervil/Moss in 3-4)
48. Ron Brace, DT, BC (rotational player in front 3)
79. Domonique Johnson, CB, Jackson State (depth CB)
110. David Bruton, S, Notre Dame (FS and ST ace)
132. Kevin Ellison, S, USC (depth SS)
141. Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson (depth DL)
172. TJ Lang, OL, Eastern Michigan (depth OL, can play all positions)
183. Lee Robinson, OLB, Alcorn State (depth LB)
208. Demetrius Byrd, WR, LSU (Deep threat WR)

Depth Chart:

Defense:

LDE: Marcus Thomas/CJ Mosley
NT: Ron Brace/Dorell Scott (Rotating)
RDE: Carlton Powell/Kenny Peterson
ROLB: Elvis Dumervil/Javis Moss
MLB: Spencer Larsen, Monty Beisel
MLB: DJ Williams, Lee Robinson
ROLB: Brian Cushing, Sam Williams
LCB: Champ Bailey, Jack Williams, Karl Paymah
RCB: Dre Bly, Domonique Johnson, Josh Bell
FS: James Sanders, David Bruton
SS: Josh Barrett, Kevin Ellison

Offense:

QB: Jay Cutler, Drew Henson
RB: Peyton Hillis, Michael Pittman, Ryan Torain, JJ Arrington
TE: Daniel Graham, Tony Scheffler, Chad Mustard, Mike Leach
WR: Brandon Marshall, Jabar Gaffney
WR: Eddie Royal, Demetrius Byrd
WR: Brandon Stokley, Chad Jackson
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus
LG: Ben Hamilton, TJ Lang
C: Casey Wiegman, Kory Lichtensteiger
RG: Chris Kuper, TJ Lang
RT: Ryan Harris, Tyler Polumbus

Should be cheap, covers all the bases, although maybe not as well as more expensive plans.

Let me know what you think, just please remember that this is supposed to be affordable, so I will ignore it if you put guys like Suggs, Dansby, Haynesworth, Peppers, TO...
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:40 AM   #2
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Depth Chart:

Defense:

LDE: Marcus Thomas/CJ Mosley has he ever played end in a 3-4?
NT: Ron Brace/Dorell Scott (Rotating)Rookie DT don't play well usually
RDE: Carlton Powell/Kenny Peterson Total Unknown, who knows if he can play?
ROLB: Elvis Dumervil/Javis Moss Not sure doom agile or tall enough to play linebacker and drop into coverage. Jarvis hasn't ever done it either.
MLB: Spencer Larsen, Monty Beisel He looked decent but not starter worthy IMO Beisel pretty avg not sure he would help
MLB: DJ Williams, Lee Robinson I think DJ would play decent inside in a 3-4
ROLB: Brian Cushing, Sam Williams I love Cushing
LCB: Champ Bailey, Jack Williams, Karl Paymah Healthy? if he is enough said
RCB: Dre Bly, Domonique Johnson, Josh Bell- I still think Bly decent
FS: James Sanders, David Bruton I hate his size, not the type of safety I really want
SS: Josh Barrett, Kevin Ellison Dude looked slow and was a poor tackler in the chances he got last yr
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:42 AM   #3
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A lot of question marks in your plan but it illustrates how much work Broncos have to do. It might be impossible to add enough talent in on offseason to fix this mess.

Also offense will have a learning curve. I'm afraid unless some real magic in offseason takes place its going to be a tough yr against a really tough schedule.
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Old 02-02-2009, 09:48 AM   #4
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I'm still blown away by the Henson idea as our backup....
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:05 AM   #5
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I'm not going to be as mean as some guys around here, but here's my viewpoint (as of 2-2-2009).

1. There's no way Cushing is a #12 pick. If you want Cushing, trade back to spot #20 and pick up another second rounder. You will get Cushing + a probable starter in the second round.
2. I'm not convinced that Brace is a good pick in the second either. He's no more refined than other guys that will be there in the third and fourth rounds. He may be worth it, maybe not.
3. I think picking up two big DT's in rounds 3-4 would be a great thing so I like the Scott pick, but I would also throw in Terrence Taylor for consideration in rounds 3-5. Pick up two fatties in the mid rounds and hope you pick a gem.

Also, just tell me who you would be choosing Cushing over at #12? Who is already off the board that you would rather have?

Are the following players already gone? Curry, Raji, Maualuga, Brown?

I know I have stated this before, but I am starting to believe that there is no better player for us in round 1 than Everette Brown. The more I watch this guy, the more i think he could have the best upside of any 3-4 OLB available. Since Aaron Curry could very well end up as an ILB (he could play either), this is important.

OLB's make the 3-4 work as much at a dominant NT. OLB's are the sack leaders, and the difference makers. Everette Brown is a manchild. He is mean, instinctive, powerful, and fast as hell. If you can't tell already, he has become #1 on my draft board.

I think there will be other good LB's available in rounds 2-3 also. We could use another good thumper in the middle, but the real talent needs to be on the outside.

Last edited by cmhargrove; 02-02-2009 at 10:13 AM..
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
I'm not going to be as mean as some guys around here, but here's my viewpoint (as of 2-2-2009).

1. There's no way Cushing is a #12 pick. If you want Cushing, trade back to spot #20 and pick up another second rounder. You will get Cushing + a probable starter in the second round.
2. I'm not convinced that Brace is a good pick in the second either. He's no more refined than other guys that will be there in the third and fourth rounds. He may be worth it, maybe not.
3. I think picking up two big DT's in rounds 3-4 would be a great thing so I like the Scott pick, but I would also throw in Terrence Taylor for consideration in rounds 3-5. Pick up two fatties in the mid rounds and hope you pick a gem.

Also, just tell me who you would be choosing Cushing over at #12? Who is already off the board that you would rather have?

Are the following players already gone? Curry, Raji, Maualuga, Brown?

I know I have stated this before, but I am starting to believe that there is no better player for us in round 1 than Everette Brown. The more I watch this guy, the more i think he could have the best upside of any 3-4 OLB available. Since Aaron Curry could very well end up as an ILB (he could play either), this is important.

OLB's make the 3-4 work as much at a dominant NT. OLB's are the sack leaders, and the difference makers. Everette Brown is a manchild. He is mean, instinctive, powerful, and fast as hell. If you can't tell already, he has become #1 on my draft board.

I think there will be other good LB's available in rounds 2-3 also. We could use another good thumper in the middle, but the real talent needs to be on the outside.
I agree with what you said here. If Curry, Maualuga, Brown, Orakpo and Brown were all gone, I would be for taking Cushing but only if it happened after we traded down. Even if we were to trade down to the 20-24 range, if Cushing were to get snagged up, Larry English, who has proven his worth of late as a 1st rounder, might be an option as well and wouldn't be giving up much in terms of talent in regards to Cushing. Acquiring another 2nd in the process would be ideal with the amount of safeties and other 3-4 talents that will be available in the 2nd.
I don't mind the Brace pick, but I too am not sold quite yet on him. He appears to play very high out of his stance which makes me think he wouldn't fare well against multiple blockers no matter how big he is.
I think the Broncos might have learned their lesson with FA's like the ones you mentioned in your mock in the past (McCree, Colbert, Niko, etc.). I'm not saying lets go after the big names, but mid-grade guys like Robinson/McFadden, Atogwe/Phillips, Mike Wright might be the better route. Adding just three of them would result in 3 instant starters whom will contribute for sure.
I like your mock, it is realistic, I agree with some things, disagree with others, but that's just how it is. Enjoyed reading it.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:54 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmhargrove View Post
I'm not going to be as mean as some guys around here, but here's my viewpoint (as of 2-2-2009).

1. There's no way Cushing is a #12 pick. If you want Cushing, trade back to spot #20 and pick up another second rounder. You will get Cushing + a probable starter in the second round.
2. I'm not convinced that Brace is a good pick in the second either. He's no more refined than other guys that will be there in the third and fourth rounds. He may be worth it, maybe not.
3. I think picking up two big DT's in rounds 3-4 would be a great thing so I like the Scott pick, but I would also throw in Terrence Taylor for consideration in rounds 3-5. Pick up two fatties in the mid rounds and hope you pick a gem.

Also, just tell me who you would be choosing Cushing over at #12? Who is already off the board that you would rather have?

Are the following players already gone? Curry, Raji, Maualuga, Brown?

I know I have stated this before, but I am starting to believe that there is no better player for us in round 1 than Everette Brown. The more I watch this guy, the more i think he could have the best upside of any 3-4 OLB available. Since Aaron Curry could very well end up as an ILB (he could play either), this is important.

OLB's make the 3-4 work as much at a dominant NT. OLB's are the sack leaders, and the difference makers. Everette Brown is a manchild. He is mean, instinctive, powerful, and fast as hell. If you can't tell already, he has become #1 on my draft board.

I think there will be other good LB's available in rounds 2-3 also. We could use another good thumper in the middle, but the real talent needs to be on the outside.

Raji, Curry and Brown will all be long gone before the 12th pick. I did pick Cushing over Maualuga for 2 reasons: 1, Cushing is a good fit as the more passive OLB and 2, I believe Maualuga is not a big enough upgrade over Spencer Larsen, they were both 1st team pac-10 players a year ago.

I am honestly not really happy with Cushing at number 12 either, he is too injury prone, but I treated the 1st round as a worst case scenario with Brown, Orakpo, Malcolm Jenkins, Raji and Curry all gone in the top 11, so I was left choosing between Maualuga, Cushing and Moreno and of the 3 I think Cushing has done most to help his draft stock right now and he is the most needed player.

I actually had a CB in the 2nd at first, but I realized I would end up neglecting the DL too much if I went with secondary in round 2. I think Ron Brace is a guy you take for his physical measurables and then round him into an NFL player. Of the people I consider NT prospects in this draft he is the one with the fewest detractors since we can't get Raji.

I did consider Taylor, but I felt we had bigger needs at S and I just hate Michigan defensive linemen, they are like boils full of puss, you don't want them if you can avoid it.
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Old 02-02-2009, 11:01 AM   #8
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Depth Chart:

Defense:

LDE: Marcus Thomas/CJ Mosley has he ever played end in a 3-4 ?
No, but most people who play 3-4 DE are natural DTs, Trevor Pryce, Ty Warren, Richard Seymour are all natural DTs.

NT: Ron Brace/Dorell Scott (Rotating)Rookie DT don't play well usually
That is true, but we don't have a lot of other options.

RDE: Carlton Powell/Kenny Peterson Total Unknown, who knows if he can play?
He could certainly play at VT.

ROLB: Elvis Dumervil/Javis Moss Not sure doom agile or tall enough to play linebacker and drop into coverage. Jarvis hasn't ever done it either.
Guys like James Harrison, Joey Porter and Calvin Pace aren't exactly nimble, and they do all right.

MLB: Spencer Larsen, Monty Beisel He looked decent but not starter worthy IMO Beisel pretty avg not sure he would help
Beisel is good for backup, he has experience in 3-4 and is an older guy, if he is available at a decent price he could provide depth. Larsen is getting a bum wrap, he was all pac-10 with Maualuga and Rivers last year, ahead of some very good linebackers. He is a player, plus his role would be very heavily skewed towards clogging up running lanes which he does well.

MLB: DJ Williams, Lee Robinson I think DJ would play decent inside in a 3-4

ROLB: Brian Cushing, Sam Williams I love Cushing

LCB: Champ Bailey, Jack Williams, Karl Paymah Healthy? if he is enough said

RCB: Dre Bly, Domonique Johnson, Josh Bell- I still think Bly decent

FS: James Sanders, David Bruton I hate his size, not the type of safety I really want This one can go either way, Bruton could easily start there and be the centerfielder

SS: Josh Barrett, Kevin Ellison Dude looked slow and was a poor tackler in the chances he got last yr Again this is a situation where we just can't get the talent we would really like with the premise of this mock since we can't add a big name FA, I do agree that this is the place we need to invest in FA for instant upgrades.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:02 PM   #9
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Here's my idea of a cheap offseason, please be sure to tell me how terrible it is, posthaste. I'm assuming that either Moss or Crowder will start performing at least decently. If not, move Brown to SAM and Dumervil to starting JACK.

FA:
James Sanders
Geoff Hangartner
Ronald Fields
James Butler

Draft:
1 Everette Brown
2 Ron Brace
3 Jarron Gilbert
4 Sherrod Martin
5 Brooks Foster
5 Sammie Lee Hill
6 Curtis Taylor
7 Zach Potter
7 PJ Hill

Defensive Depth Chart:

RDE Jarron Gilbert; Zach Potter; Carlton Powell
NT Ronald Fields; Ron Brace; Sammie Lee Hill
LDE Marcus Thomas; Kenny Peterson; Nic Clemons
JACK Everette Brown; Elvis Dumervil
WILL DJ Williams; Wesley Woodyard
MIKE Spencer Larsen; Jamie Winborn
SAM Jarvis Moss; Tim Crowder
CB Champ Bailey; Josh Bell; Sherrod Martin
SS James Butler; Josh Barrett
FS James Sanders; Curtis Taylor
CB Dre Bly; Jack Williams

Last edited by MagicHef; 02-02-2009 at 01:02 PM..
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
I wanted to try a conservative approach to the offseason, no high priced FAs, no significant trades in the draft and no spending of next years draft picks. I will assume that Foxworth resigns with Atlanta and we get a 6th round pick for that.

Resignings:

Kenny Peterson (for DL depth)
Michael Pittman (as a backup RB and short yardage guy)
Karl Paymah (for DB depth, TC fodder)

Free agents:

JJ Arrington (RB depth, speed guy)
Jabar Gaffney (WR depth, knows McDaniels system)
CJ Mosley (DL depth)
Sam Williams (LB depth)
James Sanders (S depth)
Monty Beisel (Starting LB)
Drew Henson (depth QB)

Cuts:

Dewayne Robertson (too expensive)
John Engelberger (too abysmal)
Niko Koutouvides (almost as bad as Engelberger)
Boss Bailey (numbers crunch)
Selvin Young (too injured)

Draft:

12. Brian Cushing, LB, USC (can play across from Dumervil/Moss in 3-4)
48. Ron Brace, DT, BC (rotational player in front 3)
79. Domonique Johnson, CB, Jackson State (depth CB)
110. David Bruton, S, Notre Dame (FS and ST ace)
132. Kevin Ellison, S, USC (depth SS)
141. Dorell Scott, DT, Clemson (depth DL)
172. TJ Lang, OL, Eastern Michigan (depth OL, can play all positions)
183. Lee Robinson, OLB, Alcorn State (depth LB)
208. Demetrius Byrd, WR, LSU (Deep threat WR)

Depth Chart:

Defense:

LDE: Marcus Thomas/CJ Mosley
NT: Ron Brace/Dorell Scott (Rotating)
RDE: Carlton Powell/Kenny Peterson
ROLB: Elvis Dumervil/Javis Moss
MLB: Spencer Larsen, Monty Beisel
MLB: DJ Williams, Lee Robinson
ROLB: Brian Cushing, Sam Williams
LCB: Champ Bailey, Jack Williams, Karl Paymah
RCB: Dre Bly, Domonique Johnson, Josh Bell
FS: James Sanders, David Bruton
SS: Josh Barrett, Kevin Ellison

Offense:

QB: Jay Cutler, Drew Henson
RB: Peyton Hillis, Michael Pittman, Ryan Torain, JJ Arrington
TE: Daniel Graham, Tony Scheffler, Chad Mustard, Mike Leach
WR: Brandon Marshall, Jabar Gaffney
WR: Eddie Royal, Demetrius Byrd
WR: Brandon Stokley, Chad Jackson
LT: Ryan Clady, Tyler Polumbus
LG: Ben Hamilton, TJ Lang
C: Casey Wiegman, Kory Lichtensteiger
RG: Chris Kuper, TJ Lang
RT: Ryan Harris, Tyler Polumbus

Should be cheap, covers all the bases, although maybe not as well as more expensive plans.

Let me know what you think, just please remember that this is supposed to be affordable, so I will ignore it if you put guys like Suggs, Dansby, Haynesworth, Peppers, TO...
I am sorry, man. This is a HORRID plan. Affordable!?!? Monte Beisel?
If Bowlen doesnt let McD/Nolan spend some coin, then this team is looking at 8-8 7-9 all over again. This team DESPERATELY NEEDS some help. Stop foolin yourselves.
Look, you can look at why this happened all day. Who cares. Whats done is done.
The defense SUCKS. BAD. REAL BAD.
DEN needs to spend in the area of 25-30 MIL on FAs to just BEGIN! to be somewhat competitive!
DEN needs
2 DTs
2 S
1 LB (maybe more)
1 DE
Those are the NEEDS.
This hoping Dumervil can play OLB, or "Moss is gonna pan out, just you wait and see"!!!! crap is laughable. Theres players to be had, and money to spend, so get them.
I cannot see Pat Bowlen giving McD more than 3 years to fix this mess. The offense is in place, and this guy isnt getting a free ride. If there isnt significant improvements made to create a foundation for the defense, then McD will not be able to get this ship in the right direction.
Bowlen must know this, and he must know that he has to spend some coin to get some quality players with leadership in to DEN ASAP.
The McCree/Manuel/BossBAiley crap is over. Shanahan is gone. Playing games, with players or "projects" is just a waste of time.This team needs a shot of adrenaline and it needs it right now!!
Sorry to reign on your draft,man.

Also, i can see you dont like REY REY too much. Well, i gotta tell ya , another reason that i like REY aside from his playing at USC, is the fact that he plays with alot of intensity. I know, he makes mistakes. So does Raji, so does Cushing. Whatever. But another reason i like REY here in DEN is the way he ISNT intimidated by anyone. Hes an evil player. He plays with that crazy "islander blood in the eye" craze sometimes.
And to be quite honest, DEN just doesnt have a freakin psycho that INTIMIDATES the other team. A guy that just makes the other team kinda hesitiant to push him around after the plays over. A guy the has the "f-you" look in his eyes. Someone who just scares the crap outta the other teams players. Thats REY REY. No one EVER gets into it with him, ever.
Thats actually half the reason i want DEN to draft him.
I also think your underestimating his abilities as do EVERY analyst out there.
Just sayin. (here comes the pink panties! LO!L)

Last edited by socalorado; 02-02-2009 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:42 PM   #11
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Here's my idea of a cheap offseason, please be sure to tell me how terrible it is, posthaste. First, a note about NT: I believe that Robertson's $17m bonus has been discovered to not apply, and I am assuming that this makes him financially feasible to keep. I know he is not an ideal NT, but he has experience there and I think he would be able to help out in rotation, hopefully just until one of our rookies starts playing like a starter. Also, I'm assuming that either Moss or Crowder will start performing at least decently. If not, move Brown to SAM and Dumervil to starting JACK.

FA:
James Sanders
Geoff Hangartner
Ronald Fields
James Butler
Monty Beisel

Draft:
1 Everette Brown
2 Ron Brace
3 Jarron Gilbert
4 Sherrod Martin
5 Brooks Foster
5 Sammie Lee Hill
6 Curtis Taylor
7 Zach Potter
7 PJ Hill

Defensive Depth Chart:

RDE Jarron Gilbert; Zach Potter; Carlton Powell
NT Dewayne Robertson; Ronald Fields; Ron Brace; Sammie Lee Hill
LDE Marcus Thomas; Kenny Peterson; Nic Clemons
JACK Everette Brown; Elvis Dumervil
WILL DJ Williams; Wesley Woodyard
MIKE Spencer Larsen; Jamie Winborn
SAM Jarvis Moss; Tim Crowder
CB Champ Bailey; Josh Bell; Sherrod Martin
SS James Butler; Josh Barrett
FS James Sanders; Curtis Taylor
CB Dre Bly; Jack Williams
The bonus still stands, it is just not guaranteed. If we want to keep him we will have to pay.

I like your plan, I was working under the premise that Brown wouldn't be available in the draft, but I really like that pick.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:46 PM   #12
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The bonus still stands, it is just not guaranteed. If we want to keep him we will have to pay.

I like your plan, I was working under the premise that Brown wouldn't be available in the draft, but I really like that pick.
I thought that eddiemac said something about that bonus only applying if the 65% playing time for the pick to NY was met, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, I'm just really hoping that enough OT's go before us to make Brown slide to us.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:46 PM   #13
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I may have missed the point of this thread. Is it to try to spend as little as possible?
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:53 PM   #14
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I may have missed the point of this thread. Is it to try to spend as little as possible?
Yes. Well, that and have a decent team.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:56 PM   #15
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I am sorry, man. This is a HORRID plan. Affordable!?!? Monte Beisel?
If Bowlen doesnt let McD/Nolan spend some coin, then this team is looking at 8-8 7-9 all over again. This team DESPERATELY NEEDS some help. Stop foolin yourselves.
Look, you can look at why this happened all day. Who cares. Whats done is done.
The defense SUCKS. BAD. REAL BAD.
DEN needs to spend in the area of 25-30 MIL on FAs to just BEGIN! to be somewhat competitive!
DEN needs
2 DTs
2 S
1 LB (maybe more)
1 DE
Those are the NEEDS.
This hoping Dumervil can play OLB, or "Moss is gonna pan out, just you wait and see"!!!! crap is laughable. Theres players to be had, and money to spend, so get them.
I cannot see Pat Bowlen giving McD more than 3 years to fix this mess. The offense is in place, and this guy isnt getting a free ride. If there isnt significant improvements made to create a foundation for the defense, then McD will not be able to get this ship in the right direction.
Bowlen must know this, and he must know that he has to spend some coin to get some quality players with leadership in to DEN ASAP.
The McCree/Manuel/BossBAiley crap is over. Shanahan is gone. Playing games, with players or "projects" is just a waste of time.This team needs a shot of adrenaline and it needs it right now!!
Sorry to reign on your draft,man.

Also, i can see you dont like REY REY too much. Well, i gotta tell ya , another reason that i like REY aside from his playing at USC, is the fact that he plays with alot of intensity. I know, he makes mistakes. So does Raji, so does Cushing. Whatever. But another reason i like REY here in DEN is the way he ISNT intimidated by anyone. Hes an evil player. He plays with that crazy "islander blood in the eye" craze sometimes.
And to be quite honest, DEN just doesnt have a freakin psycho that INTIMIDATES the other team. A guy that just makes the other team kinda hesitiant to push him around after the plays over. A guy the has the "f-you" look in his eyes. Someone who just scares the crap outta the other teams players. Thats REY REY. No one EVER gets into it with him, ever.
Thats actually half the reason i want DEN to draft him.
I also think your underestimating his abilities as do EVERY analyst out there.
Just sayin. (here comes the pink panties! LO!L)
I just want to tell you in so many words how much you haven't learned.

Which team spend the most money on free agents last year? the Jets and how did that go for them? How did our big signings of guys like Javon Walker, Travis Henry, Daniel Graham, Simeon Rice work out? how did it work out for the Raiders throwing big money at free agents?

If you think throwing around big money is going to magically lead to playoffs you are not only kidding yourself, you are displaying a worrying lack of touch with reality.

I remember Foxworth, you remember him too he used to play here and he was bad, then he got traded and now he is a starter and a highly rated free agent after only a single season. Some times you have to accept that if your players are not performing, it may not be the players it may be the coaching. If Foxworth could become a player the way he did, then there is a chance that Moss and Dumervil can too. Their skillset is virtually identical to many players people want to draft in the 1st and 2nd round, so give them a shot to show what they can do.

It is okay, you can reign on my draft as long as you don't rain on it....

I think you are wrong, I know it is a long held sentiment among the simple-minded that just because nobody agrees with you it doesn't make you wrong - But it does. There is a reason a guy like Mayock can predict the draft so well, it is because he knows a lot. I like Rey Maualuga, but you have to remember the players he has been intimidating are guys who play for Arizona and Berkeley which is all good, but when the player standing across from him is Antonio Gates, then it doesn't matter if he scares college players, it matters if he can cover Gates and Maualuga can't do that.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:56 PM   #16
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I thought that eddiemac said something about that bonus only applying if the 65% playing time for the pick to NY was met, but maybe I'm wrong. Also, I'm just really hoping that enough OT's go before us to make Brown slide to us.
I thinkt he deal was that if he played 65% of the snaps then 10 million of the bonus would be guaranteed, but since he didn't hit that target the bonus becomes a roster bonus.
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:00 PM   #17
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I thinkt he deal was that if he played 65% of the snaps then 10 million of the bonus would be guaranteed, but since he didn't hit that target the bonus becomes a roster bonus.
Aha. In that case, he's out. I changed my first post to reflect that.

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Old 02-02-2009, 01:19 PM   #18
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I just want to tell you in so many words how much you haven't learned.

Which team spend the most money on free agents last year? the Jets and how did that go for them? How did our big signings of guys like Javon Walker, Travis Henry, Daniel Graham, Simeon Rice work out? how did it work out for the Raiders throwing big money at free agents?

If you think throwing around big money is going to magically lead to playoffs you are not only kidding yourself, you are displaying a worrying lack of touch with reality.

I remember Foxworth, you remember him too he used to play here and he was bad, then he got traded and now he is a starter and a highly rated free agent after only a single season. Some times you have to accept that if your players are not performing, it may not be the players it may be the coaching. If Foxworth could become a player the way he did, then there is a chance that Moss and Dumervil can too. Their skillset is virtually identical to many players people want to draft in the 1st and 2nd round, so give them a shot to show what they can do.

It is okay, you can reign on my draft as long as you don't rain on it....

I think you are wrong, I know it is a long held sentiment among the simple-minded that just because nobody agrees with you it doesn't make you wrong - But it does. There is a reason a guy like Mayock can predict the draft so well, it is because he knows a lot. I like Rey Maualuga, but you have to remember the players he has been intimidating are guys who play for Arizona and Berkeley which is all good, but when the player standing across from him is Antonio Gates, then it doesn't matter if he scares college players, it matters if he can cover Gates and Maualuga can't do that.
I never said throw money around on just any high priced FA.
Those examples were the Shanahan era of "win now". Which is over.
And your examples arent really making up for those players either.
What this team needs is a mix of players, some really highly talented, and some role players. But having all just reserves really isnt going to make any kind of an impact. Again, this team sucks BAD on defense.
DEN isnt a few players away on defense. They are like 6-7 players away.
Also, who can cover Antonio Gates!??! What, maybe 2 players in the NFL?!?!?
Bad example. I watched Barrett cover Gonzo for an entire game, and i have defended keeping Barrett at SS AS LONG AS DEN goes out and get a true ballhawk at FS. I am more than willing to see DEN use its young players, but DE is a fairly simple position to evaluate, and Moss hasnt even remotely passed on any level. We'll see.
As for REY, so because ray lewis intimidated players in the SEC, and was good at it, that means that anyone in any other conference just doesnt stack up when it comes to being an intmidator? The other conferences doent count? Thats funny cause BAMA sure looked intimidated in the Sugar Bowl. WTF? Dude, please. Get off the conference crap, its old and holds no validity.
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:24 PM   #19
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Huh. Interesting. This FORMER USC player in this photo seems to be intimidating Antonio Gates somewhat.
I thought only players from the SEC were allowed to do tha!

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Old 02-02-2009, 01:25 PM   #20
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I agree on the Cuts
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Old 02-02-2009, 01:39 PM   #21
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I never said throw money around on just any high priced FA.
Those examples were the Shanahan era of "win now". Which is over.
And your examples arent really making up for those players either.
What this team needs is a mix of players, some really highly talented, and some role players. But having all just reserves really isnt going to make any kind of an impact. Again, this team sucks BAD on defense.
DEN isnt a few players away on defense. They are like 6-7 players away.
Also, who can cover Antonio Gates!??! What, maybe 2 players in the NFL?!?!?
Bad example. I watched Barrett cover Gonzo for an entire game, and i have defended keeping Barrett at SS AS LONG AS DEN goes out and get a true ballhawk at FS. I am more than willing to see DEN use its young players, but DE is a fairly simple position to evaluate, and Moss hasnt even remotely passed on any level. We'll see.
As for REY, so because ray lewis intimidated players in the SEC, and was good at it, that means that anyone in any other conference just doesnt stack up when it comes to being an intmidator? The other conferences doent count? Thats funny cause BAMA sure looked intimidated in the Sugar Bowl. WTF? Dude, please. Get off the conference crap, its old and holds no validity.
When did I ever say anything about him being bad because he is not from the SEC? please don't just make things up to compensate for your poor case.

So you don't want to throw money at just any high priced FA, but don't you think that is how every team feels? I don't think any team with the possible exception of Oakland set out to sign free agents just because they are expensive, I am sure there is some sort of scouting going to try to only sign the good players.

The thing is that is what most people said about Atlanta and Miami, and instead of panicking and signing tons of high priced FAs they went pretty conservative and they both did pretty well. What we need is to build a team, you can't do that by throwing around 50 million, you do that by developing your young players, by drafting well (the way we have done on offense) and by adding a sprinkling of free agents. I fully agree that we can't be in contention without adding a big name or two, but that is not what I have tried to do here.

The thing is, with this plan, there is enough money left over to add any of the big name free agents without having to subtract anything. We could sign Haynesworth or Peppers or Sean Jones or any of the Tampa safeties or any of the Baltimore free agents or Dansby. I know who I prefer, but that is not the point, the point is that with this plan it is possible, and if you want to just pretend I put in your favourite big name free agent as well and see if you like it better then.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:04 PM   #22
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When did I ever say anything about him being bad because he is not from the SEC? please don't just make things up to compensate for your poor case.

So you don't want to throw money at just any high priced FA, but don't you think that is how every team feels? I don't think any team with the possible exception of Oakland set out to sign free agents just because they are expensive, I am sure there is some sort of scouting going to try to only sign the good players.

The thing is that is what most people said about Atlanta and Miami, and instead of panicking and signing tons of high priced FAs they went pretty conservative and they both did pretty well. What we need is to build a team, you can't do that by throwing around 50 million, you do that by developing your young players, by drafting well (the way we have done on offense) and by adding a sprinkling of free agents. I fully agree that we can't be in contention without adding a big name or two, but that is not what I have tried to do here.

The thing is, with this plan, there is enough money left over to add any of the big name free agents without having to subtract anything. We could sign Haynesworth or Peppers or Sean Jones or any of the Tampa safeties or any of the Baltimore free agents or Dansby. I know who I prefer, but that is not the point, the point is that with this plan it is possible, and if you want to just pretend I put in your favourite big name free agent as well and see if you like it better then.

Em KAy. I pretended and i like the plan. However, i pretended Cushing OUT and REY REY IN and i like that plan too!
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Old 02-02-2009, 04:50 PM   #23
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1. There's no way Cushing is a #12 pick. If you want Cushing, trade back to spot #20 and pick up another second rounder. You will get Cushing + a probable starter in the second round.
you beat me to that. Cushing at 12 is a major reach
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:44 PM   #24
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How come all 20 guys we like are in the top 11?
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:59 PM   #25
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How come all 20 guys we like are in the top 11?
This is my ranking for the 1st round:

1. BJ Raji
2. Malcolm Jenkins
3. Aaron Curry
4. Everette Brown
5. Brian Orakpo
6. Brian Cushing
7. Rey Maualuga

Right now I don't see how the top 5 from that list falls out of the top 11, so that leaves a pretty simple choice.

If you know of more than these guys you consider to have 1st round value, please chime in.
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