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Old 02-01-2009, 11:12 PM   #1
ZONA
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Default So is Tomlin the new Gruden?

I'm just curious how many people out there are gonna look at this win Tomlin the same way many looked at Gruden when the Bucs won it a few years back. If anything, Tomlin might be looked at with even more scrutiny. The Bucs had not won the Superbowl previous even though Dungy had them far into the playoffs many times. Tomlin took over a team that had just won the Superbowl, and now 2 years later they win again. Sure he gets some credit but lets face it, they still have alot of great players from their previous SB.

I'm just trying to prove a point that while I think coaching is very very important, I think good player evaluation (drafting and FA signing) might be even more important. I think great players with an average coach will get you alot further then average players with a great coach.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:14 PM   #2
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I'm just curious how many people out there are gonna look at this win Tomlin the same way many looked at Gruden when the Bucs won it a few years back. If anything, Tomlin might be looked at with even more scrutiny. The Bucs had not won the Superbowl previous even though Dungy had them far into the playoffs many times. Tomlin took over a team that had just won the Superbowl, and now 2 years later they win again. Sure he gets some credit but lets face it, they still have alot of great players from their previous SB.

I'm just trying to prove a point that while I think coaching is very very important, I think good player evaluation (drafting and FA signing) might be even more important. I think great players with an average coach will get you alot further then average players with a great coach.
i concur. that and having 3 cardinals in coverage and not one can go up to bring a ball down dont help either.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:22 PM   #3
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I think its funny that this conversation is taking place on this board. The same board that freaks out when we get a WR coach they don't approve of. The board that often forgets coaches coach and players play. Now suddenly coaches dont matter? hmmmm
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:27 PM   #4
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I think its funny that this conversation is taking place on this board. The same board that freaks out when we get a WR coach they don't approve of. The board that often forgets coaches coach and players play. Now suddenly coaches dont matter? hmmmm
coaches matter for sure, but its more important to have a team with chemistry that can work together. often times, its coaches that create taht atmosphere for them.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:29 PM   #5
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I think its funny that this conversation is taking place on this board. The same board that freaks out when we get a WR coach they don't approve of. The board that often forgets coaches coach and players play. Now suddenly coaches dont matter? hmmmm
Maybe you are referring to some comments from posts awhile go by other people but I never said coaches don't matter. In fact, as stated above, I believe I said "coaches are very very important". For the record, I thought and still do think that Shanny was a fantastic coach. I even think he knew how to draft offensive talent. I just think he sucked very badly at picking defensive talent, which ultimately was his ticket out of town. Coaches do matter, but not more then players.

My mother in law wouldn't know a basketball from a football. But if you gave her LaBron, Kobe, Duncan, Paul and Staudamire, she would whip Phil Jacksons ass if he had the best college players.

Get the point.

Last edited by ZONA; 02-01-2009 at 11:35 PM..
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:59 PM   #6
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Maybe you are referring to some comments from posts awhile go by other people but I never said coaches don't matter. In fact, as stated above, I believe I said "coaches are very very important". For the record, I thought and still do think that Shanny was a fantastic coach. I even think he knew how to draft offensive talent. I just think he sucked very badly at picking defensive talent, which ultimately was his ticket out of town. Coaches do matter, but not more then players.

My mother in law wouldn't know a basketball from a football. But if you gave her LaBron, Kobe, Duncan, Paul and Staudamire, she would whip Phil Jacksons ass if he had the best college players.

Get the point.

Football is not comparable to any other sport....the level of organization is unmatched. Coaching matters at every point. Your mother in law could coach kobe, lebron et al to a championship. You put her in charge witha football all star team, she'd have much more trouble.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:44 AM   #7
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i don't like the idea that a coach wins with a previous coaches players. look at SD. they got rid of Marty who went 14-2 only to go 8-8 the next season with basically the same roster.

a coach has to know what he is doing to win and has to be good to get to the Super Bowl and win it.

coaches put the players in the best position to win, which can make a players talent unseen or bring out a players talent.

Tomlin did a damn good job with the Steelers.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:54 AM   #8
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Anyone else notice how when the Cards were driving late to take the lead it was Lebeau and another assistant taking the reigns during timeouts--NOT Tomlin. Anyone remember Shanny deferring to Kubes during SB 32/33? I don't. He's a fraud. I have said it before and I will say it again..Tomlin is a cheerleader who inherited a FO and defensive coaching staff 1 year removed from winning a SB. Once Lebeau leaves--his inadequacy will shine through for all to see.
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:09 AM   #9
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What's even funnier is watching the Steelers CBs playing off a lot just like ours do. Safety's back just like we tried. The difference is we look like the play where fitz took the slant and went all the way every play while most of the time Steelers come up and make the tackle.

People blame our coaches saying they suck, why do they play corners off, but tons of good defenses do play off to limit big plays, force ball short, and then punish the offensive player until you wear them down.

How many missed tackles in Denver this yr? Is it coaching? or were the players simply matched up against better and stronger athletes?
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Old 02-02-2009, 05:10 AM   #10
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i don't like the idea that a coach wins with a previous coaches players. look at SD. they got rid of Marty who went 14-2 only to go 8-8 the next season with basically the same roster.

a coach has to know what he is doing to win and has to be good to get to the Super Bowl and win it.

coaches put the players in the best position to win, which can make a players talent unseen or bring out a players talent.

Tomlin did a damn good job with the Steelers.
yeah but just as often a team will be 14-2 and with same coach the next yr go 8-8. Why? because every yr is different.
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:33 AM   #11
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Tomlin isn't the best Xs and Os coach. He is a mentalist though. He knows how to motivate and how to get the most out of his players. The Rooneys did their franchise a great service in selecting him as the head coach. Really, they would have done well with Wisenhunt or Grimm as well, but Tomlin is a motivator. Cowher had better teams at times and didn't win the SB so I'm not sure this is the same thing that Gruden had. Gruden is a better coach, Tomlin a better leader. I just hope we get the same type of leadership and motivation from McBicentennial!

Tomlin this morning stated he gets more out of his players life maturation than what they do as football players. He cares about his players and looks to be a combination of Tony Dungy and Tom Coughlin. That is he cares about his players personally and hopes to improve them both physically and mentally. But, make no mistake, he is the boss and don't question him. He'll play nicely with everyone as long as they are accountable.

Not sure if any of you caught it a few weeks ago, but he had an interview where a reporter said something about his players commenting on how far he'd come as a head coach in the past couple years. They asked him what he thought he had learned and so on. His answer didn't have much to do with what he'd learned. He bluntly stated that he wasn't too pleased with his players critiquing him. (paraphrasing) 'I critique my players. I have my management to answer to not my players', Tomlin then went on to say, "How is your editor doing?" Classic and that right there made me an instant fan!
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:00 AM   #12
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As long as they keep the nucleus if this team together, there's no reason they can't compete for a Lombardi the next 3-4 years.

Tomlin inherited a great team, but he hasn't screwed it up yet, so we'll wait and see before calling him Chucky v2.0.
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:24 AM   #13
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Old 02-02-2009, 07:51 AM   #14
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Short answer, IMO, "yes".....he did , after all, inherit a team 2 years removed from a Super Bowl (as well as a team that has been historically successful in the recent years as well as a franchise/owner/FO among the best in the league).


Time will tell - I'm not totally writing him off but I probably wouldn't have written Gruden off after his SB w/ Tampa either. Gruden had success with the Raiders so the "he won with Dungy's team" wasn't as widespread then as it is now.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:24 AM   #15
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The Steelers model is one I think a lot of teams will be trying to copy. Young, motivational Head Coach flanked by experienced and creative coordinators. If anyone has last week's SI, read the article on Tomlin - it's amazing the control he has over that team.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:26 AM   #16
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Well, as I recall, the Giants were the best defensive team ever. But that was last year. And I recall that the Pats were the absloute, most unbeatable team in history. But that was last year, too.

Wait until next year to find out for sure. Stay tuned.......
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:28 AM   #17
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I loved Tomlin's speech after the game. It was the truth.
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Old 02-02-2009, 08:32 AM   #18
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Yup. Gave Cowher a ring too.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:22 PM   #19
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Well, as I recall, the Giants were the best defensive team ever. But that was last year. And I recall that the Pats were the absloute, most unbeatable team in history. But that was last year, too.

Wait until next year to find out for sure. Stay tuned.......
Defense wins championships.
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Old 02-02-2009, 02:32 PM   #20
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Tomlin inherited a superbowl champion that needed to adjust to his coaching style, so in that way yes, he is a Gruden. Can he replace the aging parts as they come up and create a consistent winner like in New England? Thats what we will see. Hines Ward cant play forever, and 3 of pittsburghs's starting linebackers are 30+.

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Old 02-02-2009, 02:41 PM   #21
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Dick Lebeau
I concur, if I had Dick Lebeau as my DC I could have a top 5 defense.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:16 PM   #22
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Tomlin inherited a superbowl champion that needed to adjust to his coaching style, so in that way yes, he is a Gruden. Can he replace the aging parts as they come up and create a consistent winner like in New England? Thats what we will see. Hines Ward cant play forever, and 3 of pittsburghs's starting linebackers are 30+.

The beauty of the Steelers system is that Tomlin will have input on who to draft, but at the same time, the Steeler system already in place with scouting, evaluating, drafting, and developing players all go into the mix of replacing players on the down-side of their career(s). In other words, Tomilin does not wear 2 hats with FO player personnel decision and coaching.

Tomlin is actually learning how to become a great coach while having the ability to win or add more AFC Titles and SB's in the next 10 years.

Tomlin has age on his side also when it comes to dealing and communicating with today's players due to the fact he's still in his 30's!!!!

It appears the trend NFL owners are going with now is the hiring of coaches in their 30's! So perhaps Bowlen is on to too something with the hiring of McDaniels who happens to be in his early 30's vs Shanahan who was closer to 60 than he was 50 years old.
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