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Old 02-01-2009, 10:39 AM   #1
Snarfalicious
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I have seen a lot of mocks lately, most of which seem pretty good, and some which seem like we are addressing a different team other than the Broncos. The offseason I present in this draft will for the most part be Defensively-oriented, with a little dash of some Offense (But only glaring needs).

Denver Trades in the Offseason:

*** When thinking up these trades, I gave us a little less value than I thought we might actually get, just so I don't appear to be throwing these trades out and making them completely unrealistic. Every trade has a reasoning behind it.

*** Denver trades Dre Bly and 6th Rounder to Seattle for a 4th round pick.
Reasoning: Seattle finished the year as the worst Passing Defense and Bly would instantly help them and allow them to address other needs in the first 3rounds.

*** Denver trades Elvis Dumervil to Buffalo Bills for a 4th round pick.
Reasoning: My whole family (other than me) share a favorite team of the Buffalo Bills. By the end of the season, it became apparent that the most pressing need this offseason would be a pass-rush specialist. Buffalo needs a guy to play opposite of Schobel that can get some pass-rush. Schobel also has injury concerns so the time to acquire a player such as Doom is now. If we gave Buffalo a 6th we might be able to swing a 3rd for Doom, but I just played it safe here. Buffalo gets a proven pass-rush specialist for the 4-3 scheme, something which is not a given via the draft these days.

*** I don't have Denver trading out of the 12th spot in the draft, I think that with the rise of Raji up draft boards, it will allow us to get a guy who was initially thought to be in the top 10, fall to us at #12. Read on to find out...

Denver in Free Agency:

NT Gabe Watson (RFA): Watson's signing will force us to most likely use a 4th rounder on him, but he is still young (25) and he is the same size of Brace (Possible 2nd rounder) and he is already proven himself as a quality player in the NFL.

DE Mike Wright: Wright can come in and address another glaring need (DE). He has also proven the ability to play as NT which will come in handy in case of any unforeseen injuries. He won't be very expensive and will bring some fresh, young (26) talent.

FS OJ Atogwe: This signing is the iffiest one, due to his sheer skills and ballhawk ability. He won't come cheap, because the secret's out on his abilities. But Atogwe would instantly help the secondary of this team and finally give us a long-term solution at the FS position.

CB Jabari Greer: With the trade of Bly, Denver has a backup plan in mind, and Greer is it. He is still young (26) and after watching him play for the past couple years, it's hard to deny his ability and his ball hawking tendencies. He has every ability to play CB in the NFL, and he has proven that. He recently lost his job to Leodis McKelvin (Bills 2008 1st rounder) and will as a result see his price tag shrink.

*** The big-name signing here is OJ Atogwe, which in reality isn't that big. I don't expect to see Denver getting a guy like Aso, Suggs or Peppers simply because of the holes that this D has. Getting one of those guys would severely limit the ability to address multiple needs.

Denver in the Draft:

Pick Rundown (After trades)

Round:
1
2
3
4a (Seattle for Bly and 6th)
4b (Buffalo for Doom and 6th)
X 4c (traded to ARZ for Watson)
5a (Seattle for Colbert)
5b
X 6a (Traded to Buffalo w/ Doom for 4th)
X 6b (From Atlanta for resigning Foxworth, then traded to Seattle for 4th)
7

*** We enter the draft with 8 picks (Originally 9), but with the acquisition of Watson, a glaring need (NT), isn't so desperate now.

Round 1 (#12): Brian Orakpo DE/OLB Texas
- Orakpo gives us the ability to have a great DE in a 4-3 and a LB that can apply pressure and still has the athletic ability to drop back into coverage. I can see him being the Denver version of Terrell Suggs. With Raji flying up draft boards, and the Browns now seemingly looking for a ILB, Orakpo could definetly fall, especially if the race for LT's hits early in the draft, like it has in the past.

Round 2 (#48 ): Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
-With the draft stock of English, Matthews, and Cushing rising, and the slight fall of Sintim, I can definetly see Clint lasting to us in the second round. Some might say this won't happen, but Sintim has definetly seen a slight fall, and he was originally expected to be a late 1st - early 2nd. If Sintim were to fall to us in the position, we have to pull the trigger.

Round 3 (#79): Michael Hamlin SS Clemson
-With the acquisition of Atogwe via FA, SS is the next position in the secondary to be addressed. Enter Hamlin, not a flashy guy, but paired with a ballhawk like Atogwe, Hamlin brings the skillset to play against the run and still be effective against the pass. A safe, steady player like Hamlin, paired with a gutsy, risk-taker like Atogwe, Denver can expect to see a great safety tandem for years.

Round 4 (#100 - from Seattle): Jarron Gilbert DE/DT San Jose State
- Gilbert barely falls out of the 3rd round, but with Denver getting the 4th pick in the 4th from Seattle in the Bly trade, Denver gets a freakish athlete in Gilbert. Gilbert has all the ability to be a great DE in a 3-4.

Round 4 (#107 - from Buffalo): James Davis RB Clemson
- Davis is a no-nonsense, straight-forward runner that will excel in the ZBS that will be kept in Denver. He doesn't have great hands out of the backfield, but luckily he will play a Maroney-type role and a guy like Alridge will play more of a Kevin Faulk role (Receiver out of the backfield) in McDaniels Offense. Davis will be the primary runner for Denver for years to come.

Round 5 (#132 - from Seattle): Jasper Brinkley ILB South Carolina
-Brinkley is a huge (6'2 265) ILB who is a beast against the run. He is coming off a knee injury but prior to the injury was considered a first-round talent. He has every ability to be a force on the inside in a 3-4. The only knock on him is his ability to cover the pass. But in the 5th, his ability is hard to pass up.

Round 5 (#142?): AQ Shipley C Penn State
- Shipley has always been a great Center for Penn State, he is actually very similar in size to Dan Koppen (starting center this past year for New England). Shipley is 6'1 297 and Koppen is 6'2 296. Shipley is no slouch of a Center and he does have a mean streak and always completes his blocks. He gets to spend a year under Weigmann to learn the offense, and in 2010 I fully expect him to take the reins and continue the solid OL play.

Round 6 : Sammie Lee Hill NT Stillman- He has the size (6'4 330) to be a NT in a 3-4 scheme and he is a very athletic individual. His lack of exposure to top talent lets him fall this far, but with proper coaching and gradually working him into things, I have full faith in Hill and I do believe he could become a very impressive NT in the NFL.

Round 7 : Jamarko Simmons WR Western Michigan
- Another Big receiver (6'2 240) who won't blow you away with his speed (about a 4.6) but he does have good hands and has a lot of potential. The first time I saw Simmons, I immediately thought of B-Marsh. At this point, you can't do much better and Simmons would add some quality depth to the receiving corps.

Denver's 2009-2010 Depth Chart:

Defense:

LDE: Marcus Thomas, Carlton Powell
NT: Gabe Watson, Sammie Lee Hill
RDE: Mike Wright, Jarron Gilbert
L OLB: Clint Sintim
LILB: DJ Williams
RILB: Spencer Larsen or Jasper Brinkley
ROLB: Brian Orakpo
CB: Jabari Greer
FS: OJ Atogwe
SS: Michael Hamlin or Josh Barrett
CB: Champ Bailey

Offense:

QB: Jay Cutler
RB: James Davis, Alridge, Torain
FB: Hillis
OL: Same
WR: Brandon Marshall, Jamarko Simmons
WR: Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokely
TE: Daniel Graham, Tony Scheffler
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Old 02-01-2009, 10:49 AM   #2
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I like the plan, but there are a couple of snags along the way.

1. I doubt that Seattle or anyone else trades for Bly, because he makes too much.

2. I don't hink Orapko drops to 12.

3. Jarron Gilbert is going to be one of the fast risers during the combine. Just a prediction, but he's crazy athletic, and I think he'll shoot up draft boards with the numbers he's going to put up.

I love the plan though, good job. Atogwe would look great in a Denver uniform, and would give us the ball hawking safety we've been lacking for many many years. I'm not sure that Sintim falls out of the first round either, but if he was there in the 2nd, he could make an impact in the 3-4 scheme. Gabe Watson would be a great addition, and even be worth a 3rd IMO.

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Old 02-01-2009, 11:02 AM   #3
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good work
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:03 AM   #4
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Awesome plan, and realistic.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:30 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
I like the plan, but there are a couple of snags along the way.

1. I doubt that Seattle or anyone else trades for Bly, because he makes too much.

2. I don't hink Orapko drops to 12.

3. Jarron Gilbert is going to be one of the fast risers during the combine. Just a prediction, but he's crazy athletic, ad I think he'll shoot up draft boards with the numbers he's going to put up.

I love the plan though, good job. Atogwe would look great in a Denver uniform, and would give us the ball hawking safety we've been lacking for many many years. I'm not sure that Sintim falls out of the first round either, but if he was there in the 2nd, he could make an impact in the 3-4 scheme. Gabe Watson would be a great addition, and even be worth a 3rd IMO.
Every time someone moves up, someone comes down. As long as it is a D guy, the Broncos could get lucky - and even get a Curry. Strange things have happened in the draft, and getting Clady, for example, was a very nice "strange" event.

I like your plan, and I wish I could pull a "Captain Picard" and say: "Make it so." But I do not have a single idea about how Goodman will see the draft. If trades are possible, this would be a year that some would be made, I would think.

Getting a replacement for Bly is high on my wish list, and for that reason alone, you get my vote.
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Old 02-01-2009, 11:39 AM   #6
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Every time someone moves up, someone comes down. As long as it is a D guy, the Broncos could get lucky - and even get a Curry. Strange things have happened in the draft, and getting Clady, for example, was a very nice "strange" event.

I like your plan, and I wish I could pull a "Captain Picard" and say: "Make it so." But I do not have a single idea about how Goodman will see the draft. If trades are possible, this would be a year that some would be made, I would think.

Getting a replacement for Bly is high on my wish list, and for that reason alone, you get my vote.
That was exactly my reasoning behind a guy like Orakpo falling. Raji will most likely go top 10 now, and KC has a new report saying they are eyeing Stafford if the Lions pass. And Cleveland is also looking for an ILB so Maualuga might go there. I think it's def. possibly Orakpo falls to us, and even if he doesn't, my personal backup option, Everette Brown probably will be there. And if we were to trade Doom to Buffalo, them drafting a guy like Brown or Orakpo doesn't make too much sense anymore. Just how I looked at it, in my eyes it was like a domino effect.
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:26 PM   #7
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Watson will receive at least a 2 round tender offer . I don't think Bly is tradable with his contract. I still like the Greer signing .Maybe Bly could become nickle for a year before the Broncos cut him with Greer as the starter. I would rather have Donald Brown in the second and Victor Butler in the 4 round. Good offseason plan that and solid draft.
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Old 02-01-2009, 12:58 PM   #8
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That was exactly my reasoning behind a guy like Orakpo falling. Raji will most likely go top 10 now, and KC has a new report saying they are eyeing Stafford if the Lions pass. And Cleveland is also looking for an ILB so Maualuga might go there. I think it's def. possibly Orakpo falls to us, and even if he doesn't, my personal backup option, Everette Brown probably will be there. And if we were to trade Doom to Buffalo, them drafting a guy like Brown or Orakpo doesn't make too much sense anymore. Just how I looked at it, in my eyes it was like a domino effect.
yea but if Buffalo were going DE why wouldn't they take Orakpo
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Old 02-01-2009, 01:13 PM   #9
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yea but if Buffalo were going DE why wouldn't they take Orakpo
Because they had traded for Doom, who is a pass-rush specialist. You wouldn't use your first pick if you essentially have that position filled. They run a 4-3, so Doom/Kelsay , Williams, Stroud, and Schobel would be their front 4. I think you could see them use that 1st to either move back, or draft a guy like Pettigrew. It's obvious they need a C, but Mack would be a bit of a reach at that point.
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Old 02-01-2009, 06:05 PM   #10
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4th rounder for Watson is absolutely hilarious. You should do stand-up, dude. Your subtle humor is priceless.
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:19 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
I like the plan, but there are a couple of snags along the way.

1. I doubt that Seattle or anyone else trades for Bly, because he makes too much.

2. I don't hink Orapko drops to 12.

3. Jarron Gilbert is going to be one of the fast risers during the combine. Just a prediction, but he's crazy athletic, ad I think he'll shoot up draft boards with the numbers he's going to put up.

I love the plan though, good job. Atogwe would look great in a Denver uniform, and would give us the ball hawking safety we've been lacking for many many years. I'm not sure that Sintim falls out of the first round either, but if he was there in the 2nd, he could make an impact in the 3-4 scheme. Gabe Watson would be a great addition, and even be worth a 3rd IMO.
way to go out on a limb he has been riseing.. and then after his senior bowl and what not.. hes been a riser nothing new
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Old 02-01-2009, 07:22 PM   #12
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yea but if Buffalo were going DE why wouldn't they take Orakpo
I am not advocating tradeing doom but. He is a gamer and has done it at the pro leval. they get good value and can/ could address another position
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Old 02-02-2009, 06:33 AM   #13
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Watson for a 4th. Yeah, right. Sure. Thats gonna happen.
I like your offseason ideas, however, but your draft makes me wanna gouge my eyes out.

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Old 02-02-2009, 06:40 AM   #14
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I have a crazy plan, how about we use Doom as a pass rushing specialist?

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Old 02-02-2009, 07:03 AM   #15
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As such not a bad plan, a few things that are debatable if they are realistic or not.

My biggest point of criticism here is James Davis, if we are going to a spread style offense for the passing game we need a RB who can pass block, and James Davis may be the worst pass blocker since Ryan Torain. Davis got beaten like a bongodrum at a hippie party all week at the senior bowl in pass protection.

It is so important that when you play spread that your RB knows where the pressure will come and can stop it long enough for your QB to get the pass out. With Davis we will get Cutler killed. I don't think there is any doubt that Peyton Hillis is the best reciever out of the backfield we have, he has amazing hands, runs good routes, has good ball awareness and is deceptively fast, plus he presents a real mismatch for a cornerback when he gets into the flat and should be able to run over quite a few DBs for extra gains.
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Old 02-02-2009, 10:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by socalorado View Post
Watson for a 4th. Yeah, right. Sure. Thats gonna happen.
I like your offseason ideas, however, but your draft makes me wanna gouge my eyes out.
No need for a rude comment, you might want to state what you'd rather see, otherwise, you kind of look like your just attempting to stir the pot with no base on your reasoning. I would like to hear your ideas, I'm always one that takes criticism well as long as the person backs up their claims. I would like to know what you rather see, in case I were to make a Mock later, I would have a good sense of what people would like to see, after all, we make mocks in order to make people happy and amused.

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Old 02-02-2009, 10:35 AM   #17
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As such not a bad plan, a few things that are debatable if they are realistic or not.

My biggest point of criticism here is James Davis, if we are going to a spread style offense for the passing game we need a RB who can pass block, and James Davis may be the worst pass blocker since Ryan Torain. Davis got beaten like a bongodrum at a hippie party all week at the senior bowl in pass protection.

It is so important that when you play spread that your RB knows where the pressure will come and can stop it long enough for your QB to get the pass out. With Davis we will get Cutler killed. I don't think there is any doubt that Peyton Hillis is the best reciever out of the backfield we have, he has amazing hands, runs good routes, has good ball awareness and is deceptively fast, plus he presents a real mismatch for a cornerback when he gets into the flat and should be able to run over quite a few DBs for extra gains.
I agree completely. He definetly showed his glaring weakness at the Senior Bowl with his ability (or lack thereof) to pass block. I think it can be taught, it's just a matter of recognizing the blitz or unblocked man, getting leverage, and picking it up effectively. I was expecting to see McDaniels use him more of like a Maroney type, a tote the rock in between the tackles kind of guy. Whereas Hillis and Alridge (possibly) could be the Kevin Faulk type players since they both posess great hands out of the backfield and Alridge has the speed and Hillis has the power. I know some would say that Torain is technically the same back as Davis, but I just am not sold on the guys toughness and his ability to stay on the field for an extended amount of time since he's been hurt since his senior year in college. Thanks for the analysis, appreciate your views on Davis.
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Old 02-02-2009, 12:06 PM   #18
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What I don't like:
Trading Bly - we're currently even up on his contract (cap number = bonus remaining that gets accelerated with a cut/trade) so we free up no space in moving him and actually lose space in having to sign a replacement. He's also better than Greer or other cost efficient options out there but despite that he won't trade well because of his age and the fact that the back end of his deal is big money years.

Trading Dumervil - I think he fits a 3-4 front pretty well and he's a proven capable pass rusher. Why would we give him up for exactly what he cost us a few years ago? And no team will probably want to pay more so you're at an impass. Keep him and let him become a pass rushing OLB.

Drafting Orakpo - He's basically a more productive, more athletically gifted version of Crowder. Inconsistent motor and poor fundamentals, like all of UT's guys. I would prefer to see us never draft another UT guy again until their coaching staff actually starts teachin fundamentals and technique instead of living off the athletic freaks they get to recruit from within the state.

Other problems:
No backup for Jay?
All your starting RBs have missed significant time recently to injury.
You have a 7th round WR as our #4.
Assuming that a lesser prospect drafted in the same round is a better option for our future C than Lichtenstieger.
A handful of guys (Gilbert, Davis, Hill, and if he runs well at the combine Brinkley) are being taken probably at least a round later than they would actually go.
I don't see Watson coming that cheap either. We'll be better off with a cheaper stopgap like Fields while we look for a legit stud NT in the draft.

What I like:
Brinkley. I think he'll be a very good bulldozer 3-4 ILB who comes off the field on passing downs.

Greer. I'd like him better as our nickel back who could replace Bly in a year or so, but he's a solid CB.

Sammie Lee Hill. Like his potential, though he will probably be a couple years from paying off.

Sintim. I think there is a very strong chance he falls to us in the 2nd and he'd be great value there.
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Old 02-02-2009, 03:44 PM   #19
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What I don't like:
Trading Bly - we're currently even up on his contract (cap number = bonus remaining that gets accelerated with a cut/trade) so we free up no space in moving him and actually lose space in having to sign a replacement. He's also better than Greer or other cost efficient options out there but despite that he won't trade well because of his age and the fact that the back end of his deal is big money years.

Trading Dumervil - I think he fits a 3-4 front pretty well and he's a proven capable pass rusher. Why would we give him up for exactly what he cost us a few years ago? And no team will probably want to pay more so you're at an impass. Keep him and let him become a pass rushing OLB.

Drafting Orakpo - He's basically a more productive, more athletically gifted version of Crowder. Inconsistent motor and poor fundamentals, like all of UT's guys. I would prefer to see us never draft another UT guy again until their coaching staff actually starts teachin fundamentals and technique instead of living off the athletic freaks they get to recruit from within the state.

Other problems:
No backup for Jay?
All your starting RBs have missed significant time recently to injury.
You have a 7th round WR as our #4.
Assuming that a lesser prospect drafted in the same round is a better option for our future C than Lichtenstieger.
A handful of guys (Gilbert, Davis, Hill, and if he runs well at the combine Brinkley) are being taken probably at least a round later than they would actually go.
I don't see Watson coming that cheap either. We'll be better off with a cheaper stopgap like Fields while we look for a legit stud NT in the draft.

What I like:
Brinkley. I think he'll be a very good bulldozer 3-4 ILB who comes off the field on passing downs.

Greer. I'd like him better as our nickel back who could replace Bly in a year or so, but he's a solid CB.

Sammie Lee Hill. Like his potential, though he will probably be a couple years from paying off.

Sintim. I think there is a very strong chance he falls to us in the 2nd and he'd be great value there.

Thanks for your input man. All's appreciated. Glad to see you liked some and disliked some (and actually stated it instead of being like "Der it sucks"). I am not sold on Doom's ability to play in a 3-4, and I do believe if we were to trade him it would be wise to do so now. Getting a 4th for him would prove to be a future starter in the 3-4 or on O.

I actually have been high on Brinkley for a couple years now, even prior to his injury. He lost a little speed as a result of the injury, but in my opinion, he is one of the best run stuffing ILB's in this draft because he rarely is out of place, and he consistently wraps up rather than trying to deliver the highlight blow. I'll take a consistent tackler than a guy who is going to blow up the runner on an occasion, and miss a few tackles in doing so.

I do think Hill is a 2-year project but he has all the intangibles to thrive as a NT in the 3-4, he probably just needs good coaching and what-not.

If Sintim were to fall to us in the 2nd I think he's the obvious choice unless Delmas were to somehow reach us in the second (which most likely won't happen with his skyrocketing up draft boards). Sintim is a great, consistent player who is familiar with the 3-4.

Getting Everette Brown would be nice as well, but to get Orakpo or him would personally make me happy. Brown has all the talent and burst, whereas Orakpo has similar skillsets and has a great work ethic as well.
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:25 AM   #20
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Thanks for your input man. All's appreciated. Glad to see you liked some and disliked some (and actually stated it instead of being like "Der it sucks"). I am not sold on Doom's ability to play in a 3-4, and I do believe if we were to trade him it would be wise to do so now. Getting a 4th for him would prove to be a future starter in the 3-4 or on O.
I think your valuation of a 4th rounder is somewhat clouded by our recent draft success. Dumervil has a better chance at becoming an impact 3-4 OLB than pretty much anyone we could get in the 4th, so he's got more value than that to us. At the same time I don't see many teams willing to give more than that for him thanks to his weak season this year, so we're better off keeping the cards we've been dealt.

If he put up another 10+ sack year then we might be talking a 2nd and I'd be all for that, unfortunately that was not the case though.

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If Sintim were to fall to us in the 2nd I think he's the obvious choice unless Delmas were to somehow reach us in the second (which most likely won't happen with his skyrocketing up draft boards). Sintim is a great, consistent player who is familiar with the 3-4.
A 3-4 OLB prospect I really like is Connor Barwin. A couple seasons at TE and a season at DE, very rough around the edges, but he's got great size/speed/agility measurables and very good hands. As a SOLB in the 3-4 where he would have to cover some I think his ball skills would pay off huge and he obviously has natural pass rush ability (see his great season at DE this year). Might take a year or two to develop but he could be an elite player after getting coached up.

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Getting Everette Brown would be nice as well, but to get Orakpo or him would personally make me happy. Brown has all the talent and burst, whereas Orakpo has similar skillsets and has a great work ethic as well.
I'd take Brown over Orakpo any day of the week. I just have zero faith in UT players, especially those at positions where superior athleticism and raw talent can dominate, to succeed at the pro level. They don't know how to play fundamentally sound football and so they end up struggling in the pros where everyone is talented and athletically gifted.
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:35 AM   #21
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No need for a rude comment, you might want to state what you'd rather see, otherwise, you kind of look like your just attempting to stir the pot with no base on your reasoning. I would like to hear your ideas, I'm always one that takes criticism well as long as the person backs up their claims. I would like to know what you rather see, in case I were to make a Mock later, I would have a good sense of what people would like to see, after all, we make mocks in order to make people happy and amused.
Not rude! I really do wanna gouge out my eyes!

Watson will cost a 2nd. Maybe with a player, a 3rd. Theres no way in hell they let him walk without true value compensation. Hes too talented. I would LOVE to get him, but it would be for a 2nd. When making these trades, unless its DJ or Champ or a player on offense, its always going to be DEN on the underside of the trade. Always.
I have proposed as well as a few others thast DEN should trade a 5th for Ronald Fields. Fields has potential, but he hasnt done jack squat, and is a Nolan player for the NT, so his value isnt very high.
I am the OJ ATOGWE HOMER of this board! ASK ANYONE! I want him as much as ANY player in FA this year. But it will be a miracle that STL doesnt just franchise him. STL is known as a cheap @$$ team, and they historically have screwed over many players during FA, so maybe, JUST MAYBE DEN can steal him away. The FA franchising period has begun, FEB 2nd through the 19th.
16 days to go................So have a back up. Sean Jones of CLE would be a perfect fit. he can play either FS or SS. Proven player worth the $$.
I would rather keep Bly whom i hate, ask anyone, than go after Greer. Shoot i would rather take Josh Bell over Greer. Bell has shown just as much promise playing the moron, Slowdick defense. The CBs are not the problem, its the pass rush. And i hate Bly, ask anyone here.
Orakpo-reach
Sintim-will be long gone
Hamlin- Sure
Gilbert-Sure. But why not get Dorell Scott in the 3rd? Gilberts stock is rising. he wont be there.
Davis-meh. Cannot block to save his life. "Ragdoll". Andre Brown who is excellent is Pass Pro instead.
Brinkley-HUGE injury concern. But at this point, sure.
Shipley-Sure
Watson-sure
Hill-sure
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Old 02-03-2009, 06:48 AM   #22
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Not rude! I really do wanna gouge out my eyes!

Watson will cost a 2nd. Maybe with a player, a 3rd. Theres no way in hell they let him walk without true value compensation. Hes too talented. I would LOVE to get him, but it would be for a 2nd. When making these trades, unless its DJ or Champ or a player on offense, its always going to be DEN on the underside of the trade. Always.
I have proposed as well as a few others thast DEN should trade a 5th for Ronald Fields. Fields has potential, but he hasnt done jack squat, and is a Nolan player for the NT, so his value isnt very high.
I am the OJ ATOGWE HOMER of this board! ASK ANYONE! I want him as much as ANY player in FA this year. But it will be a miracle that STL doesnt just franchise him. STL is known as a cheap @$$ team, and they historically have screwed over many players during FA, so maybe, JUST MAYBE DEN can steal him away. The FA franchising period has begun, FEB 2nd through the 19th.
16 days to go................So have a back up. Sean Jones of CLE would be a perfect fit. he can play either FS or SS. Proven player worth the $$.
I would rather keep Bly whom i hate, ask anyone, than go after Greer. Shoot i would rather take Josh Bell over Greer. Bell has shown just as much promise playing the moron, Slowdick defense. The CBs are not the problem, its the pass rush. And i hate Bly, ask anyone here.
Orakpo-reach
Sintim-will be long gone
Hamlin- Sure
Gilbert-Sure. But why not get Dorell Scott in the 3rd? Gilberts stock is rising. he wont be there.
Davis-meh. Cannot block to save his life. "Ragdoll". Andre Brown who is excellent is Pass Pro instead.
Brinkley-HUGE injury concern. But at this point, sure.
Shipley-Sure
Watson-sure
Hill-sure
That's more like it. Thanks for the response. I def. think we will sign a FA safety this offseason, whether that is Atogwe, Phillips, Jones or Landry (Hopefully not Sanders, I've never liked him). Atogwe is my personal favorite simply because of the lack of turnovers we had, and the guy is a playmaking baller. Jones is another great option, but I'm not sure if he will leave Cleveland. I think at most, Watson will cost a 3rd, but Fields def. is another option. As for Sintim, if he is gone before he gets to us, it won't be by much.

As of late, English, Matthews and possibly even Barwin with this ability to play DE/TE/OLB might have actually passed Sintim. I have a feeling Sintim would be there in the 2nd, obviously I'm hoping Delmas would be there, but I don't see that happening anymore with the sucking of Moore and other than that the top of the safety class is graded as 2nd to 3rd round talent.

Thanks for the response man.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:00 AM   #23
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I think your valuation of a 4th rounder is somewhat clouded by our recent draft success. Dumervil has a better chance at becoming an impact 3-4 OLB than pretty much anyone we could get in the 4th, so he's got more value than that to us. At the same time I don't see many teams willing to give more than that for him thanks to his weak season this year, so we're better off keeping the cards we've been dealt.

If he put up another 10+ sack year then we might be talking a 2nd and I'd be all for that, unfortunately that was not the case though.


A 3-4 OLB prospect I really like is Connor Barwin. A couple seasons at TE and a season at DE, very rough around the edges, but he's got great size/speed/agility measurables and very good hands. As a SOLB in the 3-4 where he would have to cover some I think his ball skills would pay off huge and he obviously has natural pass rush ability (see his great season at DE this year). Might take a year or two to develop but he could be an elite player after getting coached up.



I'd take Brown over Orakpo any day of the week. I just have zero faith in UT players, especially those at positions where superior athleticism and raw talent can dominate, to succeed at the pro level. They don't know how to play fundamentally sound football and so they end up struggling in the pros where everyone is talented and athletically gifted.
I think we could def. get a future starter in the 4th in this draft. I don't think that's a very off-base statement. Granted, its a crap shoot, but a guy like Chip Vaughn, who is a little raw, could very well be an option and a guy with proper coaching could excel at safety.

I do like Barwin as well, something has to be said for his ability to be so versatile. It takes some extreme athleticism to do what he does. He could be our Mike Vrabel (Tackles and goal-line TD threat!). Either way, I think we have plenty of options in the first few rounds that will def. come in and challenge for starting spots right away. There are many ways we could go, and getting the likes of an English, Sintim, Matthews, or Barwin would be welcomed in my eyes.

I think the most cloudy situation right now is what we do with the 12th pick. If we get a RB, I might just jump out of my window. And I'm not completely sold on Raji or Maualuga. I hope we get a guy like Brown or Orakpo, I think they will be very similar to a Terrell Suggs type player just based off their versatility and athletic intangibles. We can all pray that the stars allign and the messiah (Aaron Curry) falls to us, but that's not going to happen. So in a nutshell, Brown or Orakpo would make me happy inside.

If Maualuga were to be a more consistent player, I would be all for him, but he really isn't. Granted he is great against the run, but he's not very good against the pass, and there's a player very similar to him in that regard that will be avaible in the 5th (Yes, Mr. Brinkley).

Raji, when he goes full-board, is downright nasty, but the problem with him is he takes plays off, and whenever I think of one our DL taking a play off, I instantly think of "Insert Any Runningback We Played Last Year Here" running down the field past our D.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:54 AM   #24
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Snarf: I really appreciate your analysis of the players. I hope to see a NT and a S in FA. I wouldn't mind seeing a LB also, but there may be some reticence to go overboard in FA because of the need to save dollars for to re-sign the Broncos' own FAs.

There has been much cussing and discussing around here about the lack of a true MLB. So, if there is a FA NT signed and a S signed, wouldn't a MLB be a better pick in the first or the second? I understand that there is a need for OLBs, but stopping up the middle seems to me to be a real need.

After Rey-Rey, I have no idea who that might be.
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Old 02-03-2009, 07:59 AM   #25
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I think we could def. get a future starter in the 4th in this draft. I don't think that's a very off-base statement. Granted, its a crap shoot, but a guy like Chip Vaughn, who is a little raw, could very well be an option and a guy with proper coaching could excel at safety.

I do like Barwin as well, something has to be said for his ability to be so versatile. It takes some extreme athleticism to do what he does. He could be our Mike Vrabel (Tackles and goal-line TD threat!). Either way, I think we have plenty of options in the first few rounds that will def. come in and challenge for starting spots right away. There are many ways we could go, and getting the likes of an English, Sintim, Matthews, or Barwin would be welcomed in my eyes.

I think the most cloudy situation right now is what we do with the 12th pick. If we get a RB, I might just jump out of my window. And I'm not completely sold on Raji or Maualuga. I hope we get a guy like Brown or Orakpo, I think they will be very similar to a Terrell Suggs type player just based off their versatility and athletic intangibles. We can all pray that the stars allign and the messiah (Aaron Curry) falls to us, but that's not going to happen. So in a nutshell, Brown or Orakpo would make me happy inside.

If Maualuga were to be a more consistent player, I would be all for him, but he really isn't. Granted he is great against the run, but he's not very good against the pass, and there's a player very similar to him in that regard that will be avaible in the 5th (Yes, Mr. Brinkley).

Raji, when he goes full-board, is downright nasty, but the problem with him is he takes plays off, and whenever I think of one our DL taking a play off, I instantly think of "Insert Any Runningback We Played Last Year Here" running down the field past our D.
I agree on Barwin, and I hope that no one is around me when the pick is announced if it is an RB. I'm really hoping for Brown, for some reason Orakpo reminds me of Gholston. Maybe that's not fair, since Gholston was just a rookie, but it kind of seems like Orakpo made a name for himself in the weight room, and Brown made a name for himself on the field.
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