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Old 01-31-2009, 08:27 AM   #1
elsid13
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Default Yes I am bored, and came up with another gleam in the eye plan

Now it coming pretty clear that Denver is going to run some type 3/4 hybrid, I decide to update my "off season plan" that I started with Denver 3-4 thread. First I like to thank BPC for analysis of Raji. After reading what BPC posted, I have come to agree that Raji would be wasted in standard 3/4 and real is better suited as UT in 4-3 defense. Which is the role he played in BC, with Brace as the NT. I would love to run the desert swarm defense and pick up Raji but I don't see it happening. Montrose also gets some thanks for the nugget he posted that the new coaching staff really likes Woodyard, DJ and Larson.

Also like everything else in life you need to take a holistic approach to developing anything and in this case that means both FA and draftees are the key to improve the team. I expect Denver will continue the trend of recent years of signing mid tier FAs that will contribute to overall team, but not counted as stars.

Free Agent signings

Ron Fields (SF age 27) NT - Yes I am still on him. He fits a need, is young coming onto his own and Nolan was giving him more and more playing time when head coach in SF. He isn't elite but he is nice addition to the line and add the beef Denver needs in the middle.

Mike Wright, (NE age 27) I would prefer Canty, but I think he resigns with Dallas. Wright has the ability to kick inside to play NT in 4/3 and at 298 pounds he as that ability to anchor DE position in 3/4. He is a rotation player but add depth in critical position.

Kyle Boller - Need QB, and Boller has enough talent to fit into the scheme.

James Sanders -(NE Age 25) Young S follows McDaniels to Denver.

Geoff Hangartner CAR Age 26 (OC/OG) another player that can multiply position on the line

Andra Davis, (CLE Age: 30) Back-up and veteran leadership

Marques Harris, (SD. Age: 27) Back Up LB

Resign

Kenny Peterson (Den age 30) Another player that could be used in DE/DT rotation as Denver moves forward. I expect a short term deal like 2 to 3 years.

Draft

I expect Foxworth to resign with ATL to give Denver an extra 6th. And I will add Holland trade as fifth this year

1. Michael Jenkins- Best player on the board. I think the 4 LTs push him back to this spot and he to good a player to pass up at this point.

2.Max Unger, C/G/T, Oregon. I like Mack better but I think Mack gets draft at the end of the first. Unger has ability to move all along the line, and is really suited for ZBS team, which Denver continues to run under the new staff.

3. Jarron Gilbert (DE/DT) - smaller school prospect that add to the DE depth in the 3/4.

4. Connor Barwin, OLD/DE, Cincinnati. Outstanding Athlete that played both TE and DE for his college team. He has knack for getting to the QB. IMO best position is as OLD in 3/4

5a. Mike Thomas - WR AR. Play maker. Smaller then I like but he very good once he get the ball in his hands. Can be our Kr/PR and take over in the slot for Stokely

5b Sammie Lee Hill (NT Stillman) as Med pointed out the potential to be very good NT tackle, but might take a couple of years to develop into Pro player

5c. Chip Vaughn - WF SS. He player that move into the box and allow Barrett to play over the top if Barrett starts.

6a Brandon Tate- injury knock him down late to this spot. If he recovers has chance to be good NFL receiver.

6b Gartrell Johnson (RB CSU)- I think he at worse he is goalline/short yardage back, at best he gives Torian and Hillis some relief in the playing time.

7 Roger Allen (Missouri Western) First team All-MIAA at right guard. Big Guard at 335 pounds that add depth to the interior line.

UDFA -
Sam Swank (K) Wake Forest Competion.
Mike Riley (QB) Central Washington - long term development QB.
Quinn Johnson (FB) LSU - Road Grader to lead the way

Line- Up
Offense(22)

Qb Culter, Boller, Riley (PS)
RB Torian, Aldridge, G Johnson
FB Hillis*, Quinn Johnson
WR Marshall, Royal, Stokely, Thomas, Tate,
TE Graham, Scheffer
OT Clady, Harris, Polumbus, Pears
G Hamiliton, Kuper, Unger*, Allen (PS)
C Lichlingstiener, Unger, Hangartner
* Will play multiply positions
Defense (27)
LDE Thomas**, Peterson
NT Fields, Powell**, Stillmen
RDE Wright, Gilbert, Crowder**
OLD Doom**, Moss**
MLB DJ Williams** Harris, Green
MLB Larson, Davis
Nickle LB – Woodyard**
OLD Barwin, Boss**
CB Champ, Bly, Jenkins, Williams, Bell
FS Barrett, Fox
SS Sanders, Vaughn
** play in the nickel, dime and 4/3 line up
ST (3)
- LS Leach
P -Kern
K Swank

Last edited by elsid13; 01-31-2009 at 10:19 AM..
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:04 AM   #2
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interesting and unique. I like Jenkins too, it would be hard to pass him up if he falls to us. BPA in the first round is what I like.

Instead of the back from CSU, I would take Ringer a round earlier. I see I am not the only one for Mike Thomas, he is going to be good.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:08 AM   #3
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I'll be pretty upset if we take the same BS Shanny approach to FA this year and go after a bunch of NON-DIFFERENCE MAKERS! Your list of FA's rivals last year's... which were crap! Why you would advocate selecting more Manuels, McCrees, Baileys, and Nikos is beyond me. Collectively that group was probably $10m last year (actually a lot more!). How much better off would we have been had we just invested that money in Michael Turner? To be fair, the group of FAs was weak league wide last year. This year it looks to be a little stronger. What we need is a difference maker. Just one! I'm fine with your list of FAs provided we add at least one true difference maker to that list. Someone we EXPECT to make a big difference. Julius Peppers. OJ Atogwe. Albert Haynesworth. Somebody that will cost some money but will also show up on Sundays and make a difference.

As for your draft. I'm not real big on Jenkins. If the answers at LB and DL are already on the roster then use that pick on a stud RB. If Moreno does in fact improve his speed he would be a valuable pick. Infectious enthusiasm for the game. An Edgerin James type player without the bling/flavor clown act.
Your second round pick is great. I'd love either Unger or Mack. Truth is though I believe that Mack will be there in the 3rd and I'm not impressed by Gilbert. While Gilbert's size is ideal, his athleticism is beyond poor. The way William Moore is dropping, why not take him in the 2nd and then go for Alex Mack in the 3rd. Louis Delmas would also be a smart alternative if Moore is off the board.
I love your Barwin pick. He may take some time to develop but his athleticism opens him to a lot of possibilities. Obviously he looks at this point like he will be a 3-4 OLB.
Not sure I like the Mike Thomas pick. I would much prefer Mike Wallace from Ole Miss. Faster, bigger (4" taller too) and avg. 20 ypc in the SEC. His speed is a difference maker.
Your next four picks are all perfect. If Tate lasts that long it would be great for the Broncos. I'm also interested to see how Johnson's game translates in the NFL. One thing is certain, he can catch the ball and that will fit in well with McD's offense.
I don't know anything about your 7th round pick


So, with my offseason plan things would change quite a little bit. You would have a bit more help at Safety. A stud RB. And some help along the DL with either Haynesworth or Peppers (with Pep lining up as the ROLB). Either plan has potential but I'd be extremely frustrated if we went forward with a plan like last year's. In fact, I would bet that A LOT of fans would be turned off by a similar plan to last year's. Pat Bowlen realized he had to bring some enthusiasm back to Denver. That is why I still believe that a first round RB will be the pick. Bowlen's #1 priority this offseason... Get the fans enthusiasm back. Ryan Clady was the best pick for the Broncos last year but a pick like Jonathon Stewart would have been more sexy and beneficial for Bowlen in terms of fan enthusiasm. This is the year the Broncos go sexy in the draft.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:09 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by OSKIE!!! View Post
I'll be pretty upset if we take the same BS Shanny approach to FA this year and go after a bunch of NON-DIFFERENCE MAKERS! Your list of FA's rivals last year's... which were crap! Why you would advocate selecting more Manuels, McCrees, Baileys, and Nikos is beyond me. Collectively that group was probably $10m last year (actually a lot more!). How much better off would we have been had we just invested that money in Michael Turner? To be fair, the group of FAs was weak league wide last year. This year it looks to be a little stronger. What we need is a difference maker. Just one! I'm fine with your list of FAs provided we add at least one true difference maker to that list. Someone we EXPECT to make a big difference. Julius Peppers. OJ Atogwe. Albert Haynesworth. Somebody that will cost some money but will also show up on Sundays and make a difference.

I gotta agree with your analysis on the FA list. I want a difference maker. If we are going to spend money spend it on a difference maker.
We have 6 or 7 6-3 300 lb Dlineman already on the roster + T Crowder. I wouldn't mind D Ward/LJ on offense but for FA defense I'll take one of the big 3 and or a starting young S but to bring in mid tier FA defensive players is not solving the problem. To begin with you overpay in FA and then more than likely can draft a player who could take their place this year or next and then you are stuck with dead money. I know Channing Crowder was not on the list but a perfect example of the kind of FA I don't want. Overpaid and not a difference maker.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by OSKIE!!! View Post
I'll be pretty upset if we take the same BS Shanny approach to FA this year and go after a bunch of NON-DIFFERENCE MAKERS! Your list of FA's rivals last year's... which were crap! Why you would advocate selecting more Manuels, McCrees, Baileys, and Nikos is beyond me. Collectively that group was probably $10m last year (actually a lot more!). How much better off would we have been had we just invested that money in Michael Turner? To be fair, the group of FAs was weak league wide last year. This year it looks to be a little stronger. What we need is a difference maker. Just one! I'm fine with your list of FAs provided we add at least one true difference maker to that list. Someone we EXPECT to make a big difference. Julius Peppers. OJ Atogwe. Albert Haynesworth. Somebody that will cost some money but will also show up on Sundays and make a difference.

.
I understand your concern, but I doubt that any of the "play makers" hit the open market. Plus I still think Bowlen doesn't spend the signing bonus money until the all CBA is resolved. The guys I pulled in FA are all young and have shown potential to be solid starters in the league. Not sexy I know, but better then older FA that were picked up last year.
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Old 01-31-2009, 10:26 AM   #6
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Whoa, Oskie. Look at how you described Bowlen:

1. Fired Shanahan
2. Target the big name FAs and hit them with a truck of cash
3. Make your staff and FO take the sexy draft pick

Are you talking about Bowlen or Al Davis, my man?
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Old 01-31-2009, 11:35 AM   #7
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Michael Jenkins?
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:19 PM   #8
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Whoa, Oskie. Look at how you described Bowlen:

1. Fired Shanahan
2. Target the big name FAs and hit them with a truck of cash
3. Make your staff and FO take the sexy draft pick

Are you talking about Bowlen or Al Davis, my man?
I hear what you're saying and yes it does sound Al Davis like, but Bowlen is freaking. People are turning in season tickets like never before. Of course the economy has A LOT to do with that, but if the Broncos were a stronger draw people would find ways to keep those tickets.

Pat Bowlen firing Mike Shanahan was the first step. Spending big money in FA isn't uncommon for Pat Bowlen. He's forked out the money several times. In fact, it wasn't too long ago that Broncos players were commenting at all the new players every year. As for the sexy pick logic. Who do you think the casual (whine and cheese) fan is going to like better. BJ Raji who would improve the defense and make the entire team better b/c the position is such a need? Or, Beanie Wells/Knowshon Moreno/Jeremy Maclin who the casual fan will see big offense from? You base your opinions on a firm understand of football. You know that guys like Ryan Clady, while not sexy, are the building blocks of any team. The big money "fans" that buy the $15k a year season ticket packages rarely care about anything other than "the big play" and saying they were there to "see" the play. The "fans" that buy the majority of Bronco tickets these days want action while we want foundation.

What I'd like to see this offseason and draft:

FA- Derrick Ward
FA- Julius Peppers
FA- QB (Boller makes sense but not ideal)
FA- OJ Atogwe

Forking over about $25m in bonuses for these guys. BIG MONEY but chump change compared to the year we brought in Sam Adams and Travis Henry and Simeon Rice and there rest of the OLD has beens.

In the draft I target the following:

BJ Raji (1), Ray Maualuga (1), Shonn Greene (2), Dre Brown (2), Shawn Nelson, Lou Delmas(2), William Moore(2), Jordan Shipley(6), Brandon Tate (5), Mike Wallace(5), Unger(3), Mack(3), Sherrod Martin(4), Pat White(7), Jasper Brinkley(4), and Kyle Moore (3).

Don't ask me why but Pat White is a guy I want on my team. He's a gamer. He doesn't want to move to another position, but that doesn't me he won't. These guys often are given a choice to either play a different position and stay in the NFL or stay a QB and look for work elsewhere. He'll convert and we'll have a keeper on our team!
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:21 PM   #9
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Michael Jenkins?
You're such an idiot. Everyone here knows he's talking about Malcolm Jenkins. It wasn't worth pointing out since it was a minor mistake. But you come along and think you've caught something special. BRILLIANT FIND!
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:32 PM   #10
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From ESPN:
Michael Jenkins appeared in 38 games (28 starts) in his first three seasons (2004-'06), recording 92 tackles (two for losses), three interceptions and 29 pass breakups. As a senior, he started all 13 games at right cornerback and had 41 tackles (four for losses), three interceptions and 12 pass breakups. He also has experience at safety and returning kicks. He averaged 30.4 yards on nine kickoff returns last season, returning one kick 100 yards for a touchdown. Jenkins suffers from an asthmatic condition, and in '04 he missed one game because of an ankle injury. In 2007, he was arrested after a fight outside a bar and charged with disorderly conduct and obstructing or opposing an officer without violence. Jenkins' asthmatic condition and 2007 arrest do create some reasons for concern.
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:39 PM   #11
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What is the obsession for Ward? I dont see anything special there? Why do you like him?
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:51 PM   #12
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I understand your concern, but I doubt that any of the "play makers" hit the open market. Plus I still think Bowlen doesn't spend the signing bonus money until the all CBA is resolved. The guys I pulled in FA are all young and have shown potential to be solid starters in the league. Not sexy I know, but better then older FA that were picked up last year.
Signing big dollar people is not NEs style with few exceptions. Thomas was one and Moss came to them becasue no one else wanted him. But on the whole, the Pats went with FA value and good coaching to get the team they have. There are only a few real "stars" on the Pats' team. I expect the Broncos will go for the next in line to the high priced guys, and get decent FAs. I liken it to a College team bringing in some JC transfers you never heard of who turn out to be pretty good with good coaching. The draft is where the Pats made their team.

I think Denver will go the same way and be reasonably competitive (around 9 to 12 wins) until they get the guys who will be outstanding through the draft. Over the past two to three years, the Broncos have done almost the same thing except for some minor stupidity in the FA acquistions. But they had good drafts. Look for more of the same from Goodman, adjusted for the needs of a hybrid D, maybe aiming for the 3-4 in 2010.......
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Old 01-31-2009, 01:57 PM   #13
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Free Agency should be like the 1st round of the draft, BPA.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:06 PM   #14
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Signing big dollar people is not NEs style with few exceptions. Thomas was one and Moss came to them becasue no one else wanted him. But on the whole, the Pats went with FA value and good coaching to get the team they have. There are only a few real "stars" on the Pats' team. I expect the Broncos will go for the next in line to the high priced guys, and get decent FAs. I liken it to a College team bringing in some JC transfers you never heard of who turn out to be pretty good with good coaching. The draft is where the Pats made their team.

I think Denver will go the same way and be reasonably competitive (around 9 to 12 wins) until they get the guys who will be outstanding through the draft. Over the past two to three years, the Broncos have done almost the same thing except for some minor stupidity in the FA acquistions. But they had good drafts. Look for more of the same from Goodman, adjusted for the needs of a hybrid D, maybe aiming for the 3-4 in 2010.......

Well done I agree I'm not expecting big name FA's here and we are not sure who they will keep and not keep. If they do a major overhaul they'd need to be real active in FA and trade down in draft. If they do a minor overhaul we will add a few players and take BPA in draft and work with what we have in 09. Maybe they see some of these guys just need proper teaching to improve and not need to be replaced right away we'll see.

As far as going Jenkins in round 1 I'd be fine with it but, wonder if we aren't going towards major overhaul on D. I don't see how we can put more big dollars at CB position without making a major move with Bly or Champ.

Who knows we'll see
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:20 PM   #15
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What is the obsession for Ward? I dont see anything special there? Why do you like him?
This was his report coming out of college. The positives are SPOT on and describe his game today to a "T".

As for the negatives, he had 41 receptions last year and 26 the year before. That's getting it done for a RB!

So, you have a strong RB that runs a 4.5 that has explosion thru the hole and burst in the 2nd level. He's been running between 225 and 230 and uses that size to break tackles rarely going down on initial contact. He also has a good stiff arm that he uses effectively to break outside once he gets to the 2nd level. I'll see if I can't find a video that displays his speed in the 2nd level.


Derrick Ward, HB, Ottawa
Height: 5:11.1 Weight: 233
Overview: Six years after entering college at Fresno State University, Derrick put a fine finish to his career with a record-shattering senior campaign at Ottawa University...A punishing runner with exceptional balance and leg drive, he draws comparisons to former Chargers tailback Chuck Muncie for his cutback ability and balance...Ruled academically ineligible to play at Fresno State in 1998, he earned Freshman All-American honors the following year, despite playing with a broken right hand...Limited to only seven games for the Bulldogs in 2000 due to a knee injury, he saw his FSU career end when he was again ruled ineligible to play in 2001 and 2002 due to academics...Transferred to Ottawa University for his final year, where he set an NAIA single-season record by averaging 7.7 yards per carry...Gained 1,091 yards with eleven touchdowns on 197 carries (5.5 avg) and caught three passes for 49 yards (16.3 avg) in 20 games at Fresno State...Added 2,061 yards and 28 scores on 263 attempts (7.7 avg) and 47 yards on four receptions (11.8 avg) in ten games at Ottawa...For his collegiate career, he rushed 460 times for 3,152 yards (6.9 avg) and 39 touchdowns and caught seven passes for 96 yards (13.7 avg).

Analysis: Positives...Rare-sized athlete with a muscular physique, tight hips, good bubble, well-developed thighs and calves...Hits the hole with urgency, showing the quickness to bounce outside when the rush lanes are clogged...Hits the line hard running up the middle, showing good body lean to pick and slide...Gets positive yardage after initial contact, keeping his shoulders square and pad level low to break arm tackles...Can accelerate through the holes and shows a good burst of speed in the second level...Will face up to defenders with aggression in pass protection...Has the ability to create on his own when the holes are filled, showing flexibility and change of direction agility to power through the pile.

Negatives...Needs to maintain his weight level at 225, as he looks sluggish in his initial step at a heavier weight...Struggled considerably with class work and may not be able to digest a complicated playbook...Lacks natural hands, letting the ball absorb into his body as a pass catcher...Marginal route runner who rounds his cuts and lacks awareness of his assignment, even on dump-offs and as the hot receiver...Will face up in pass protection, but is not effective moving the pile as a lead blocker...Must do a better job of protecting the ball when running (fumble problems, leaves ball too exposed).

Agility tests: 4.55 in the 40-yard dash...345-pound power clean...290-pound incline press...Bench presses 225 pounds 23 times...36-inch vertical jump...31-inch arm length...9 -inch hands.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:22 PM   #16
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Agree, NFLB. What is exciting, I think, is that with the new coaching staff, anything is possible, and to watch it unfold is exciting. I feel like this is similar to when John Ralston took over and built the team that Miller took to the Super Bowl in 1977.....
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:33 PM   #17
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Agree, NFLB. What is exciting, I think, is that with the new coaching staff, anything is possible, and to watch it unfold is exciting. I feel like this is similar to when John Ralston took over and built the team that Miller took to the Super Bowl in 1977.....
Yep your right anything is possible. I'm excited to see what moves we make or don't make in 09. New coaches tend to make more changes. We'll see what Bowlen is willing to do FA money wise.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:33 PM   #18
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Does sound like he has something.

receptions dont matter as much to me caz of Hillis and his ability which I think are better than Ward. But Ill take more backs if he comes reasonably cheap.
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Old 01-31-2009, 02:50 PM   #19
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Jenkins could also play free safety for the Broncos so would be a good pick. I would rather go with Larry English or Donald Brown in the second instead of a center. Gilbert would be a good 3 round pick.Barwin I think would be a steal in the 4 round.The rest of the draft looks solid. I might go after Victor Butler instead of Thomas .The free agents look realistic but I might go after Sean Jones and Josh Bullocks instead of Sanders.
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Old 01-31-2009, 03:16 PM   #20
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Who do you think the casual (whine and cheese) fan is going to like better.
...technically, I'm a "whine" and cheese fan, dude.

But I know what you meant, but most of the people don't watch the games at all, and if they do, only know a couple player's names. Cutler and Marshall can handle the notoriety. Let's get a player.
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:11 PM   #21
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if we take Jenkins in the 1st i will have an epic freak out. also, if Torain is even on the roster next season i will be shocked. Shanahan is gone, and thus ends the age of bringing in injury cases and hoping they can move past injuries and become stars.
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Old 01-31-2009, 06:18 PM   #22
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if we take Jenkins in the 1st i will have an epic freak out. also, if Torain is even on the roster next season i will be shocked. Shanahan is gone, and thus ends the age of bringing in injury cases and hoping they can move past injuries and become stars.
Yes, because Bobby Turner's input had nothing to do with Shanahan's RB opinion, and obviously McDaniel's doesn't give a **** about what he says either.
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Old 01-31-2009, 07:37 PM   #23
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I wonder if Selvin will have any predictions?
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Old 01-31-2009, 08:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Yes, because Bobby Turner's input had nothing to do with Shanahan's RB opinion, and obviously McDaniel's doesn't give a **** about what he says either.
Turner has input, but i doubt anyone on the franchise has any hope in him anymore. and if they do it is in a best case scenario, no one is banking on Torain to come back next season and be the guy. at best he is a backup in our backfield.
And yes even though Turner has input in what RB they will take, it doesn;t mean McDaniels will agree. Shanahan was infamous for taking injury problems and bad character guys and hoping he could mold them into stars, i doubt that McDaniels will do that. McDaniels is going to look into bringing in a healthy guy, and not rely on a guy with injuries every other day.
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Old 01-31-2009, 09:19 PM   #25
Paladin
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Yes because I am sure you have talked to all the "no ones" out there. I do believe there have been cases in which players who were injured came back to have a successful career. I would rather wait until he gets into the OTAs and we see some reports before we kick him to the curb. It is easy to be so cynical and critical on a board, isn't it?....
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