Obama Sides With Bush in Spy Case

[Garcia Bronco]

Obama Sides With Bush in Spy Case

By David Kravets January 22, 2009 | 4:32:47 PMCategories: Surveillance
The Obama administration fell in line with the Bush administration Thursday when it urged a federal judge to set aside a ruling in a closely watched spy case weighing whether a U.S. president may bypass Congress and establish a program of eavesdropping on Americans without warrants.

In a filing in San Francisco federal court, President Barack Obama adopted the same position as his predecessor. With just hours left in office, President George W. Bush late Monday asked U.S. District Judge Vaughn Walker to stay enforcement of an important Jan. 5 ruling admitting key evidence into the case.

Thursday's filing by the Obama administration marked the first time it officially lodged a court document in the lawsuit asking the courts to rule on the constitutionality of the Bush administration's warrantless-eavesdropping program. The former president approved the wiretaps in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

"The Government's position remains that this case should be stayed," the Obama administration wrote (.pdf) in a filing that for the first time made clear the new president was on board with the Bush administration's reasoning in this case.

The government wants to appeal Walker's decision to the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco, a legal maneuver requiring Judge Walker's approval. A hearing in Walker's courtroom is set for Friday.

The legal brouhaha concerns Walker's decision to admit as evidence a classified document allegedly showing that two American lawyers for a now-defunct Saudi charity were electronically eavesdropped on without warrants by the Bush administration in 2004.

The lawyers — Wendell Belew and Asim Ghafoo — sued the Bush administration after the U.S. Treasury Department accidentally released the Top Secret memo to them. At one point, the courts had ordered the document, which has never been made public, returned and removed from the case.



The document's admission to the case is central for the two former lawyers of the Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation charity to acquire legal standing so they may challenge the constitutionality of the warrantless-eavesdropping program Bush publicly acknowledged in 2005.

The Friday hearing is needed, because disputes with pretrial decisions generally require the trial judge to permit an appeal.

The Obama administration is also siding with the former administration in its legal defense of July legislation that immunizes the nation's telecommunications companies from lawsuits accusing them of complicitity in Bush's eavesdropping program, according to testimony last week by incoming Attorney General Eric Holder.

That immunity legislation, which Obama voted for when he was a U.S. senator from Illinois, was included in a broader spy package that granted the government wide-ranging, warrantless eavesdropping powers on Americans' electronic communications.

A decision on the constitutionality of the immunity legislation is pending before Judge Walker in a separate case brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...l#previouspost

[barryr]

But it was wrong when Bush did it.

[El Guapo]

re

[cutthemdown]

I remember telling people that Obama wouldn't do anything to lessen the power of his office. Of course he wants to be able to eavesdrop on potential terrorists without a warrant. The ends justify the means when it comes to this saving American lives.

It will up to the CIA and the justice dept to make sure it's used within the spirit of Obamas message of tolerance and rights.

[Spider]

I still dont like it , I dont have a problem with eaves dropping on people over seas or people with Visas over here , but not American citizens

[spdirty]

good.

[Crushaholic]

Originally Posted by Spider

I still dont like it , I dont have a problem with eaves dropping on people over seas or people with Visas over here , but not American citizens

The 9/11 hijackers supposedly were American citizens. You just never know who wants to do harm to other Americans...

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

The 9/11 hijackers supposedly were American citizens. You just never know who wants to do harm to other Americans...

No they had Visas , some of them had even expired ..... None of them became citizens .See this is what gets me , how people can forget , we already have laws to protect ourselfs , just not enforced ....why cause people forget ...... 19 people armed with Box cutters , everyone of them on a Visa ........so instead of enforcing Visa laws , we run out and make a bunch of new ones to make ourselfs feel better ...... ****ing pathetic

[kappys]

The great difficulty I always had with it was how the information is going to be used and if it would be admissible for cases other than terrorism or treason. I still don't know the answer but if information from warrantelss wire taps were restricted to court cases involving those two entities(and possibly RICO type cases) I wouldn't have a huge problem with it.

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by kappys

The great difficulty I always had with it was how the information is going to be used and if it would be admissible for cases other than terrorism or treason. I still don't know the answer but if information from warrantelss wire taps were restricted to court cases involving those two entities(and possibly RICO type cases) I wouldn't have a huge problem with it.

The should just have a faster warrant process. One by which an officer can call a judge sitting in a call center(). I mean really, put their asses in a cubical with a headset.

[Dukes]

Amazing how your beliefs on a matter change when you find out the truth.

[BABronco]

its amazing what people will say to other people to try to convince them what they believe just to get into office

[rastaman]

So will conservatives still have the same attitude about the spy-surveillance issue should Obama spy and surveil his political opponents they Bush conducted the warrantless wire taps and spying??

I'd personally like to see a return of the FISA courts and laws, regardless of how the President is residing in the WH.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by rastaman

So will conservatives still have the same attitude about the spy-surveillance issue should Obama spy and surveil his political opponents they Bush conducted the warrantless wire taps and spying??

I'd personally like to see a return of the FISA courts and laws, regardless of how the President is residing in the WH.

Question is would you go along with Obama doing that?

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by barryr

Question is would you go along with Obama doing that?

Absolutely not! The gov't shouldn't spy on any American citizen period. This is why its a slippery slope. Its unfortunate we the voters can't seem to come together to look out for our best interest regardless of party affiliation.

This country needs to return to the FISA Court Laws......plain and simple.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by rastaman

Absolutely not! The gov't shouldn't spy on any American citizen period. This is why its a slippery slope. Its unfortunate we the voters can't seem to come together to look out for our best interest regardless of party affiliation.

This country needs to return to the FISA Court Laws......plain and simple.

Political opponents or people who are communicating to those known to belong to terror groups? You really don't see a difference here?

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by barryr

Political opponents or people who are communicating to those known to belong to terror groups? You really don't see a difference here?

Oh there's a difference here! The point is no sitting President should have the blanket power to spy and surveil its citizens just based on a hunch and with no mechanism to distinguish or oversight with what really is going on.

[Dukes]

Originally Posted by rastaman

Oh there's a difference here! The point is no sitting President should have the blanket power to spy and surveil its citizens just based on a hunch and with no mechanism to distinguish or oversight with what really is going on.

The intelligence community don't base their operations on a "hunch". They actually have facts and real intelligence to back their operations.

[barryr]

Originally Posted by rastaman

Oh there's a difference here! The point is no sitting President should have the blanket power to spy and surveil its citizens just based on a hunch and with no mechanism to distinguish or oversight with what really is going on.

On a hunch? If that's all our intelligence has in defending against terrorism, then we are in more trouble than I thought.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by barryr

On a hunch? If that's all our intelligence has in defending against terrorism, then we are in more trouble than I thought.

Point is we don't know today whether or not what type of orders Bush gave his intelligence agencies to spy on Americans of whom Bush felt were his political enemies or who were speaking out with dissent against his Admin.

Once again, re-establishing the FISA court will provide transparency.

[TDmvp]

Originally Posted by rastaman

The gov't shouldn't spy on any American citizen period.

Why ? , Just don't do anything illegal and you don't have much to worry about .
And even if you are doing things illegal don't worry about it unless it has to do with a bomb or something like that ...

[BABronco]

Originally Posted by TDmvp

Why ? , Just don't do anything illegal and you don't have much to worry about .
And even if you are doing things illegal don't worry about it unless it has to do with a bomb or something like that ...

Its called invasion of privacy. Once you give your privacy away you have little to nothing left to lose.

[TDmvp]

Originally Posted by BABronco

Its called invasion of privacy. Once you give your privacy away you have little to nothing left to lose.

who cares that a computer scans phone calls looking for key words ...
Don't say Bomb , Jihad and attack on the phone over and over and you don't have anything to worry about ... It is a algorithm not a real person sitting there listening to everything we say .

Jeez it's not 1950 , stuff has to change to keep up with the times.
And if you consider this a invasion of privacy you are in for a shock cause it is only going to get worse. From cams on every corner on streets , to google street view , to everyone on the planet just about having a video cam with them at all times on their phone , to being able to stalk people down online and find everything from SS# , address and phone # .

Privacy is a illusion ....
really always has been ...

[Fedaykin]

Originally Posted by barryr

But it was wrong when Bush did it.

No, it's still wrong.

Your arrogant presumption of how others would view is very telling of your complete inability to acknowledge that many people who support Obama do not see him as infallible.

[BABronco]

Originally Posted by TDmvp

who cares that a computer scans phone calls looking for key words ...
Don't say Bomb , Jihad and attack on the phone over and over and you don't have anything to worry about ... It is a algorithm not a real person sitting there listening to everything we say .

Privacy is a illusion ....
really always has been ...

This is where it starts. Why allow a monster to be born when after too long that monster is outta control?