A different view on the firing...maybe... - The Orange Mane

Crushaholic · 01-05-2009, 12:30 AM

Yes. This needed it's own thread. This whole week, I haven't heard my particular viewpoint echoed from other people on the Mane. While the "official" reason was Shanahan's refusal to fire Slowik, I actually think he lost the ability to make halftime adjustments. Over the last two years +, I got the feeling that if we were down at halftime, we would lose the game. Maybe that just speaks to the immaturity of the players. However, the head coach should be able to deal with that kind of adversity and convey it to the young players. If somebody knows the particular stats of when we won games after being down at halftime, I'd be willing to hear that. That's really why I have little problem with Shanahan being fired...

tsiguy96 · 01-05-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

Yes. This needed it's own thread. This whole week, I haven't heard my particular viewpoint echoed from other people on the Mane. While the "official" reason was Shanahan's refusal to fire Slowik, I actually think he lost the ability to make halftime adjustments. Over the last two years +, I got the feeling that if we were down at halftime, we would lose the game. Maybe that just speaks to the immaturity of the players. However, the head coach should be able to deal with that kind of adversity and convey it to the young players. If somebody knows the particular stats of when we won games after being down at halftime, I'd be willing to hear that. That's really why I have little problem with Shanahan being fired...

no, that was the speculated reason. both shanny and pat said there was no asking to change personnel. pat called shanny in and said youre outy.

Atwater His Ass · 01-05-2009, 12:36 AM

Shanahan has always struggled with making half-time/game-time adjustments. He did in the SB years too, only thing was we buried people so hard so fast, most games were over by halftime and guys like TD weren't even playing in the 4th qtr of many games.

The man is a brilliant gameplanner given a week to do so. He just can't get it done during the game. This isn't really a new idea you've brought up here, as it's posted about on a weekly basis by many people.

That said, I don't think that was the reason at all he was fired. He's been that way his entire 14 years of being a head coach here.

dbfan21 · 01-05-2009, 08:04 AM

I have not had the chance to chime in on the Shanahan firing, yet. I have been on vacation since Christmas Eve and was staying at a cabin in the Carolina Mtns from 12/27 to this past Friday.

I found out late what had happened looong after it was announced. That being said, I was not shocked to hear the news. I was disappointed though. Let me start by saying I greatly appreciate everything Mike did for the Broncos. Those Super Bowl victories will live with me forever. I do, however, think the move could be good for this team. Mike seemed like he tried to trick the NFL with gadget offenses and defenses. It worked in the first quarter of the season, but then teams figured them out, which is why we have struggled mightily down the stretch.

Another reason I am not shocked is that Bowlen held Mike to the same level of accountability that Mike held the players to. Montrae Holland shows up overweight to TC, he gets traded. T-Hank lacks dedication to the team, he's cut. Lelie, Javon and Portis whine like girls, they get shown to the door.
What I am trying to say is that if you're not getting it done, then we have to give someone else a chance to step in.

Mike had many chances to get it done. We shouldda beat San Fran a few years ago and made the playoffs, but the team came out flat and lost. This year's playoff bid should have been nailed in November. Instead, our defense and inability to develop a killer instinct did us in. You don't blow a 3-game lead with three games to go and lose the deciding game by allowing your division rival drop FIFTY-TWO points on you!

That all falls on coaching and Mike has to bear the brunt of it. That's part of the job. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword.

Hopefully, Bowlen makes a great hire in the next few weeks and we can work towards getting back on top with a prolific offense, a stout defense and a killer instinct.

Taco John · 01-05-2009, 08:11 AM

Ah, yes of course... The "catch all" half time adjustments argument.

I think we've heard them all now.

Beantown Bronco · 01-05-2009, 08:15 AM

I think the team really made strides in the second half this season, if anything. I don't have the official numbers, but I know that they scored quite a bit on the first drive of the 3rd quarter.....moreso than in any season I can remember. It's one of those random things I focus on during a game.

Not sure about "comeback" wins....but the Cleveland game definitely stands out as being one where they were down big and won it late. I never got the feeling from this year's team that if they were down, that they couldn't come back. Prior years? Certainly. But not this year.

rugbythug · 01-05-2009, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Ah, yes of course... The "catch all" half time adjustments argument.

I think we've heard them all now.

When would have been a good time for him to be fired? When we improved to 9-7 and Miss the Playoffs next year? With out a change in Defense we were going nowhere. And lets face it its not like can't do any better.

MVP-06 · 01-05-2009, 08:20 AM

Forget halftime, how about after the first drive. Didn't we lead the league in 1st drive scoring? How many times did we look good those first 1-3 drives and then all of a sudden look pathetic? It's simple, their defense made adjustments within the game and we did not.

gyldenlove · 01-05-2009, 08:38 AM

Shanahans biggest strength was his script. He had the first about 20 offensive plays scripted before the game and if you look at how the offense would destroy teams in those first 20 plays compared to a much more pedestrian approach later in the game you will see how much it meant to have those plays prepared.

If you talk to fans of other teams they will all tell you that if you can hang with the Broncos through that script you can win. We have basicly had to build a big lead or rely on 4th quarter heroics to win this year because of that.

Rohirrim · 01-05-2009, 08:42 AM

I think the predominant factor in Shanahan getting canned was losing a three game lead in the division to fall out of the playoffs and then getting 52 points slapped on your ass in the last game. I mean, really. What coach could survive that?

Beantown Bronco · 01-05-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I think the predominant factor in Shanahan getting canned was losing a three game lead in the division to fall out of the playoffs and then getting 52 points slapped on your ass in the last game. I mean, really. What coach could survive that?

I know a certain coach who is 2-22 in his last 24 games......

lex · 01-05-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I think the predominant factor in Shanahan getting canned was losing a three game lead in the division to fall out of the playoffs and then getting 52 points slapped on your ass in the last game. I mean, really. What coach could survive that?

I think more than that is was the way it felt so inevitable. With Slowiks handiwork, watching the last three games felt like watching a car wreck.

Rohirrim · 01-05-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I know a certain coach who is 2-22 in his last 24 games......

Okay. I'll change my sentence:
What coach of a team that could actually find somebody else to take the job could survive that?

WolfpackGuy · 01-05-2009, 08:51 AM

This team was not going anywhere in the playoffs with its horrible defense.
I was over the SD loss before halftime.

Crushaholic · 01-05-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taco John

Ah, yes of course... The "catch all" half time adjustments argument.

I think we've heard them all now.

It's certainly a legitimate argument. We might as well only play one half. Chances are that if we were down at halftime, we lose the game. I'm sure you've noticed this trend while watching Broncos games throughout the years...

Bronx33 · 01-05-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

no, that was the speculated reason. both shanny and pat said there was no asking to change personnel. pat called shanny in and said youre outy.

Did shanahan make an announcement that he was retaining slowiks services for 09?

broncosteven · 01-05-2009, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

It's certainly a legitimate argument. We might as well only play one half. Chances are that if we were down at halftime, we lose the game. I'm sure you've noticed this trend while watching Broncos games throughout the years...

Crush - We had a couple of comebacks this year. If we lose at Cleveland, Atlanta, and (I threw away my schedule already) we are much worse off.

After the Presser I really feel that Bowlen wanted change, just because he wanted change. Just because.

bombquixote · 01-05-2009, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broncosteven

Crush - We had a couple of comebacks this year. If we lose at Cleveland, Atlanta, and (I threw away my schedule already) we are much worse off.

After the Presser I really feel that Bowlen wanted change, just because he wanted change. Just because.

I don't think it's "just because." He mentioned his instincts and his gut feeling several times in the presser. What I think he was alluding to, but not saying specifically, was that he sensed institutional stagnation, the sort of the thing you can only fix by a major shakeup. It's also the sort of thing that's hard to articulate when you're close to it. But Bowlen is a smart guy and, though he couldn't or wouldn't name it, he knows what to do about it.

Rock Chalk · 01-05-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I think the team really made strides in the second half this season, if anything. I don't have the official numbers, but I know that they scored quite a bit on the first drive of the 3rd quarter.....moreso than in any season I can remember. It's one of those random things I focus on during a game.

Not sure about "comeback" wins....but the Cleveland game definitely stands out as being one where they were down big and won it late. I never got the feeling from this year's team that if they were down, that they couldn't come back. Prior years? Certainly. But not this year.

Really? If Jay turned it over in the first half I didnt have any faith at all we would win the game.

We were excellent on the first drive both offensively and defensively in almost every single game we played last year. It was AFTER that, that we began to suck. I think, the half-time adjustments thing worked like you said, as we seemed to be better coming out of the gate in most of the games but like the start of the game, it was hit fast and then punt a lot.

I think his IN GAME adjustments had grown very poor, that or if Bates really was leading the offensive play calling, Bates is much much worse at adjusting to teams than I thought.

Regardless, Shanahan's offense struggled this past year, despite a few good performances. His defense was pathetic and special teams even more so. THAT is why he was fired. There had been no improvement and even regression in 2/3rds of the team and the other 1/3rd was wildly inconsistent.

Meck77 · 01-05-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock Chalk

Really? If Jay turned it over in the first half I didnt have any faith at all we would win the game.

We were excellent on the first drive both offensively and defensively in almost every single game we played last year. It was AFTER that, that we began to suck. I think, the half-time adjustments thing worked like you said, as we seemed to be better coming out of the gate in most of the games but like the start of the game, it was hit fast and then punt a lot.

I think his IN GAME adjustments had grown very poor, that or if Bates really was leading the offensive play calling, Bates is much much worse at adjusting to teams than I thought.

Regardless, Shanahan's offense struggled this past year, despite a few good performances. His defense was pathetic and special teams even more so. THAT is why he was fired. There had been no improvement and even regression in 2/3rds of the team and the other 1/3rd was wildly inconsistent.

REP....Post of the day.

TonyR · 01-05-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVP-06

Forget halftime, how about after the first drive. Didn't we lead the league in 1st drive scoring? How many times did we look good those first 1-3 drives and then all of a sudden look pathetic? It's simple, their defense made adjustments within the game and we did not.

So very true.

TonyR · 01-05-2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

The man is a brilliant gameplanner given a week to do so...

He had 2 weeks to prepare for Miami after getting embarrassed on national TV by New England 41-7. And yet, playing at home, we got beat for our third straight loss. As I've said in other threads that's the point when I said it was time to move on, and I wouldn't be surprised if it worked the same way for Pat Bowlen. The end of season epic collapse was the coup de grace.

tonngo0 · 01-05-2009, 11:30 AM

Well I think Pat fired Shanny one year too early. I think the defense did miss a middle LB the most. Too bad Shanny gamble on Niko and lost.

01-05-2009, 12:30 AM	#1
Crushaholic Armchair Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 22,078	A different view on the firing...maybe... Yes. This needed it's own thread. This whole week, I haven't heard my particular viewpoint echoed from other people on the Mane. While the "official" reason was Shanahan's refusal to fire Slowik, I actually think he lost the ability to make halftime adjustments. Over the last two years +, I got the feeling that if we were down at halftime, we would lose the game. Maybe that just speaks to the immaturity of the players. However, the head coach should be able to deal with that kind of adversity and convey it to the young players. If somebody knows the particular stats of when we won games after being down at halftime, I'd be willing to hear that. That's really why I have little problem with Shanahan being fired...

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01-05-2009, 12:36 AM	#3
Atwater His Ass Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,374 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Shanahan has always struggled with making half-time/game-time adjustments. He did in the SB years too, only thing was we buried people so hard so fast, most games were over by halftime and guys like TD weren't even playing in the 4th qtr of many games. The man is a brilliant gameplanner given a week to do so. He just can't get it done during the game. This isn't really a new idea you've brought up here, as it's posted about on a weekly basis by many people. That said, I don't think that was the reason at all he was fired. He's been that way his entire 14 years of being a head coach here.

01-05-2009, 08:04 AM	#4
dbfan21 Broncos Fan in Florida Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 2,182 Adopt-a-Bronco: Pat Bowlen	I have not had the chance to chime in on the Shanahan firing, yet. I have been on vacation since Christmas Eve and was staying at a cabin in the Carolina Mtns from 12/27 to this past Friday. I found out late what had happened looong after it was announced. That being said, I was not shocked to hear the news. I was disappointed though. Let me start by saying I greatly appreciate everything Mike did for the Broncos. Those Super Bowl victories will live with me forever. I do, however, think the move could be good for this team. Mike seemed like he tried to trick the NFL with gadget offenses and defenses. It worked in the first quarter of the season, but then teams figured them out, which is why we have struggled mightily down the stretch. Another reason I am not shocked is that Bowlen held Mike to the same level of accountability that Mike held the players to. Montrae Holland shows up overweight to TC, he gets traded. T-Hank lacks dedication to the team, he's cut. Lelie, Javon and Portis whine like girls, they get shown to the door. What I am trying to say is that if you're not getting it done, then we have to give someone else a chance to step in. Mike had many chances to get it done. We shouldda beat San Fran a few years ago and made the playoffs, but the team came out flat and lost. This year's playoff bid should have been nailed in November. Instead, our defense and inability to develop a killer instinct did us in. You don't blow a 3-game lead with three games to go and lose the deciding game by allowing your division rival drop FIFTY-TWO points on you! That all falls on coaching and Mike has to bear the brunt of it. That's part of the job. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. Hopefully, Bowlen makes a great hire in the next few weeks and we can work towards getting back on top with a prolific offense, a stout defense and a killer instinct.

01-05-2009, 08:11 AM	#5
Taco John 24/7 Broncos In Elway I Trust Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 49,742 Adopt-a-Bronco: Peyton Manning	Ah, yes of course... The "catch all" half time adjustments argument. I think we've heard them all now.

01-05-2009, 08:15 AM	#6
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,119 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	I think the team really made strides in the second half this season, if anything. I don't have the official numbers, but I know that they scored quite a bit on the first drive of the 3rd quarter.....moreso than in any season I can remember. It's one of those random things I focus on during a game. Not sure about "comeback" wins....but the Cleveland game definitely stands out as being one where they were down big and won it late. I never got the feeling from this year's team that if they were down, that they couldn't come back. Prior years? Certainly. But not this year.

01-05-2009, 08:20 AM	#8
MVP-06 MVP Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 630 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	Forget halftime, how about after the first drive. Didn't we lead the league in 1st drive scoring? How many times did we look good those first 1-3 drives and then all of a sudden look pathetic? It's simple, their defense made adjustments within the game and we did not.

01-05-2009, 08:38 AM	#9
gyldenlove Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London, ON Posts: 10,139 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	Shanahans biggest strength was his script. He had the first about 20 offensive plays scripted before the game and if you look at how the offense would destroy teams in those first 20 plays compared to a much more pedestrian approach later in the game you will see how much it meant to have those plays prepared. If you talk to fans of other teams they will all tell you that if you can hang with the Broncos through that script you can win. We have basicly had to build a big lead or rely on 4th quarter heroics to win this year because of that.

01-05-2009, 08:42 AM	#10
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,109	I think the predominant factor in Shanahan getting canned was losing a three game lead in the division to fall out of the playoffs and then getting 52 points slapped on your ass in the last game. I mean, really. What coach could survive that?

01-05-2009, 08:51 AM	#14
WolfpackGuy Call me, "Maybe" Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 5,694	This team was not going anywhere in the playoffs with its horrible defense. I was over the SD loss before halftime.

01-05-2009, 11:30 AM	#23
tonngo0 Solid Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 116	Well I think Pat fired Shanny one year too early. I think the defense did miss a middle LB the most. Too bad Shanny gamble on Niko and lost.