Return America's Industrial Prowess and Manuracturing Base!!

[rastaman]

We are giving our childrens jobs to other countries so they can have a future, at the expense of corporate profit.

Outsourcing benefits the investors and the board members of corporations, it does not benefit the American society. It seems that with off shoring, the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

The middle class is being suppressed and the gap between rich and poor is increasing day by day by this phenomena. Supposedly by getting cheaper labor we should benefit from lower prices but I keep seeing the rise in prices and the only ones that benefit are the investors with a higher ROI.

Here is a list of companies that are "Exporting America." These are U.S. companies either sending American jobs overseas, or choosing to employ cheap overseas labor, instead of American workers.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou....content.html#r

[W*GS]

Yeah, yeah.

Heavy industry is soooo 19th century.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Yeah, yeah.

Heavy industry is soooo 19th century.

Explain please!!

[W*GS]

Why do we want old and dirty industries back in the US?

Do you want a chemical plant in your backyard?

[ghwk]

Originally Posted by rastaman

We are giving our childrens jobs to other countries so they can have a future, at the expense of corporate profit.

Outsourcing benefits the investors and the board members of corporations, it does not benefit the American society. It seems that with off shoring, the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

The middle class is being suppressed and the gap between rich and poor is increasing day by day by this phenomena. Supposedly by getting cheaper labor we should benefit from lower prices but I keep seeing the rise in prices and the only ones that benefit are the investors with a higher ROI.

Here is a list of companies that are "Exporting America." These are U.S. companies either sending American jobs overseas, or choosing to employ cheap overseas labor, instead of American workers.

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou....content.html#r

What exactly are "American Jobs" anyway? I think it's a term that no longer applies to the way the world now functions and is a remnant of an idea of protectionism. Also there are a whole bunch of reasons the rich get richer, this is only part of it. Want to bring jobs back home? Stop shopping at walmart.

[mosca]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Yeah, yeah.

Heavy industry is soooo 19th century.

The companies on that list are not all "heavy industry". Many are companies of the "new" economy - IT and such - amazon.com and Yahoo! for instance. Heck, that list contains just about any large company that you would expect to be on the S&P 500.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by ghwk

What exactly are "American Jobs" anyway? I think it's a term that no longer applies to the way the world now functions and is a remnant of an idea of protectionism. Also there are a whole bunch of reasons the rich get richer, this is only part of it. Want to bring jobs back home? Stop shopping at walmart.

American jobs are jobs that were created by or from companies that were started in America. Remember, "Protectionism" should not be treated as a "Bad Word" or something evil or anti-capitalism. Its what every country does to protect their soverinty, its identify, and very survival of its Nation.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by rastaman

American jobs are jobs that were created by or from companies that were started in America. Remember, "Protectionism" should not be treated as a "Bad Word" or something evil or anti-capitalism. Its what every country does to protect their soverinty, its identify, and very survival of its Nation.

If we reject trade, and engage in (futile) autarky, we'll end up as a very large North Korea.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by mosca

The companies on that list are not all "heavy industry". Many are companies of the "new" economy - IT and such - amazon.com and Yahoo! for instance. Heck, that list contains just about any large company that you would expect to be on the S&P 500.

Yep - let's punish the largest and most successful companies in America!

One of you guys ought to add up the value of these companies to the US GDP, and see just how much of the economy would be trashed by whacking them. Perhaps you shouldn't take Dobbs too seriously. He's a boob.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by W*GS

If we reject trade, and engage in (futile) autarky, we'll end up as a very large North Korea.

Thats a false rhetoric. No one is talking rejecting trade. We need to restore Fair Trade! So how does having Fair Trade and restoring tariff laws and taxes takes this country down the path that North Korea now finds itself in?

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Yep - let's punish the largest and most successful companies in America!

One of you guys ought to add up the value of these companies to the US GDP, and see just how much of the economy would be trashed by whacking them. Perhaps you shouldn't take Dobbs too seriously. He's a boob.

What shouldn't be taken seriously at all is Reagan's Trickle Down Econ comic failed policies. One of you guys need to do some research back to 1980 and look to see where were as a nation. Remember, America was not a debtor nation as it finds itself today. The entire world was literally borrowing from the U.S.! That was until Reagan came into office.

Reagan promptly cut income taxes on the very rich from 70% down to 27%. Corporate tax rates were also cut so severely that they went from representing over 33% of total federal tax receipts in 1951 to less than 9% in 1983 (they’re still in that neighborhood, the lowest in the industrialized world).

Regan to cover his tax cuts doubled the tax paid only by people earning less than $40,000/year (FICA), and then began borrowing from the huge surplus this new tax was accumulating in the Social Security Trust Fund. Even with that, Reagan had to borrow more money in his 8 years than the sum total of all presidents from George Washington to Jimmy Carter combined. Reagan’s tax cut greatly diminished expenditures on infrastructure (bridges, roads, hospital, colleges, etc.)

When Reagan dropped the top income tax rate from over 70% down to under 30%, all hell broke loose. With the legal and social restraint to unlimited selfishness removed, “the good of the nation” was replaced by “greed is good” as the primary paradigm.

[W*GS]

Sigh.

You really need to read some genuine works on international trade and US trade policy instead of listening to Lou "Boob" Dobbs...

[elsid13]

This argument make no sense.

First I have question "why did the heavy industries leave in the first place? And what has changed in competitive landscape that make it profitable to bring them back here? "

Second if they did come back, the only way that they would be profitable is use of heavy automation since most the items are commodity goods (commodities don't bring great wages), and how does that help us?

If Dobbs was as smart as think he is, he would understand that not about going back to 20th century business models it about find those new market space and high end specialization.

[mosca]

Quote from The Wire, Season Two:
"We used to make **** in this country, build ****. Now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket." - Frank Sobotka

[SoCalBronco]

When a better business climate is available to them here, then they'll return. We're not entitled to anything. You have to create a tax, regulatory and environmental and labor system that gives them an incentive to stay.

Obviously, there are certain things among those elements that some or even most of us do not want to compromise on. But that doesn't solve the problem. If we feel strongly about some of those things, that's fine, but it means you'll have to compromise on other issues.

It's hard to balance competing objectives in a way that advances most of the interests.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

When a better business climate is available to them here, then they'll return. We're not entitled to anything. You have to create a tax, regulatory and environmental and labor system that gives them an incentive to stay.

Obviously, there are certain things among those elements that some or even most of us do not want to compromise on. But that doesn't solve the problem. If we feel strongly about some of those things, that's fine, but it means you'll have to compromise on other issues.

It's hard to balance competing objectives in a way that advances most of the interests.

They are bringing their products back into the U.S. b/c everything is pure PROFIT. They pay practically NO import tariff taxes!! As far as these American Trans Global Companies are concerned.....let them stay overseas and make and sell their products.

However, when these companies attempt to bring their cheap labor products back into the U.S., make them pay tariff tax equal to both the labor charged by workers overseas, and how much that product could have been produced here in America!!! No more FREE F'ing rides!!!

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by mosca

Quote from The Wire, Season Two:
"We used to make **** in this country, build ****. Now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket." - Frank Sobotka

Exactly!! Its a race to the bottom!!!! Only the investors, stockholders, and CEO's make the money. Everyone else are on their own.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by rastaman

However, when these companies attempt to bring their cheap labor products back into the U.S., make them pay tariff tax equal to both the labor charged by workers overseas, and how much that product could have been produced here in America!!! No more FREE F'ing rides!!!

Pick your favorite foreign-made product, calculate how much you think it would cost if made here (including your asinine "fairness" costs) and then tell me how that massive increase in its price will magically go away, such that its sales will continue as they have before.

[ghwk]

Originally Posted by mosca

Quote from The Wire, Season Two:
"We used to make **** in this country, build ****. Now we just put our hand in the next guy's pocket." - Frank Sobotka

Best TV series ever made. Ever.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Pick your favorite foreign-made product, calculate how much you think it would cost if made here (including your asinine "fairness" costs) and then tell me how that massive increase in its price will magically go away, such that its sales will continue as they have before.

Can you provide an example of a particular product you are talking about?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by rastaman

Can you provide an example of a particular product you are talking about?

Why don't you?

Find something that you think is too cheap and made outside the US.

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Why don't you?

Find something that you think is too cheap and made outside the US.

B/c it was your suggestion in the first place! Rather than trying to run a bait and switch btwn tarriffs and cheap foreign labor from 3rd world nation vs industrialized nation labor.

You can't isolate your "favorite foreign-made product, calculate how much you think it would cost if made here (including your asinine "fairness" costs) and then tell me how that massive increase in its price will magically go away, such that its sales will continue as they have before."

You make to sense. You my friend are trying to justify the status quo and why we are seeing the WALMARTIFICATION OF AMERICA!!!

Outsourcing benefits the investors and the board members of corporations, it does not benefit the American society. It seems that with off shoring, the rich get richer and poor get poorer. The middle class is being suppressed and the gap between rich and poor is increasing day by day by this phenomena. Supposedly by getting cheaper labor we should benefit from lower prices but I keep seeing the rise in prices and the only ones that benefit are the investors with a higher ROI.

[W*GS]

As I said, read some books/articles on trade, and US policy.

PLEASE.

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Pick your favorite foreign-made product,

Nike sneakers.

calculate how much you think it would cost if made here (including your asinine "fairness" costs)

About a dollar each to make here. (vs 3 cents overseas in some sweatshop)

and then tell me how that massive increase in its price will magically go away, such that its sales will continue as they have before.

Spend a dollar less in advertising per shoe. (Which is where the majority of cost is)

[rastaman]

Originally Posted by W*GS

As I said, read some books/articles on trade, and US policy.

PLEASE.

As I said early, why don't you recommend some books/articles on trade, and US policy.....you have educated yourself on!!!!

Why is it such a secret with you? Share your references why don'tcha.