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Old 12-23-2008, 07:48 AM   #1
elsid13
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Default Moving to 3-4

I know we have debated this to death, but I was thinking how hard is it really to move to the 3/4. I read that we don't have the players, it to hard the right personnel etc but I did a little mental simulation and modeling to see if we could do it one year.

Tell me if my logic is ****ed up, since I think we can do it in four outside moves. (* indicates a move). Outside move means that we don't have the resource in house to make the change.


Line:

-Move Thomas, Robinson and Peterson to DE. Denver as already done this season so they all have experience doing it. Robinson can also cycle inside when he needs to

-Sign Ronalds Field (NT #325) from SF. He young player (27) having a good season and has two guys in front of him ~Franklin and Sopoaga *

-Sign Canty from Dallas for depth and rotation.*

-Draft Terrence "Mount" Cody from Alabama. He should be available in area of the draft where Denver sits *

-Keep Clemons or Shaw through TC to see who is most flexible to be a backup NT/DE

-Use Moss and Crowder in nickle/dime packages when Denver goes 4 down linemen in passing downs.

-Trade Dumervil to cover 2 team. I know that sucks but he's young and cheap which make a good trade candidate.

That move Denver from small defense line that holding up the offense line for the LB to make plays to a big defense (300 plus across the board) that holding up the offense line to let the LB make plays

LB:

-Keep both Boss and DJ at outside backers. Both are in the 240 range which while little small but is in range with guys like Porter (250) and Copper SD (235). Plus I think they have the speed to make a difference.

-Move Larson to inside backer. Plays to his strength of moving down field into the gap and and short zone. Plus he is a good blitzer up the middle. Like Trotter who I compare him to.

-Draft LB Worrell Williams (CAL) in the Fourth. Can play inside next to his brother and has good speed. *

-Keep Winborn, Green Niko Koutouvides, for depth and ST. Denver should also attempt to find another inside LB can that play.

- Move Woodyard into nickle LB role with DJ/Boss and bulk him up a little to play inside. Since Denver is in nickle/dime 40% of the time that make sure he see the field (EDIT MISSED ON COPY AND PASTE 1st time around)
LB are slightly on small side (about 245 across the starting 4) but do have more speed then most teams and can make plays.

Last edited by elsid13; 12-23-2008 at 08:14 AM..
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:00 AM   #2
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What happens to Woodyard?
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:08 AM   #3
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What happens to Woodyard?
The copy and paste missed him.

Move Woodyard into nickle LB role with DJ/Boss and bulk him up a little to play inside. Since Denver is in nickle/dime 40% of the time that make sure he see the field.
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Old 12-23-2008, 08:13 AM   #4
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It always seems to me (just from watching games) that a 3-4 creates more pressure on the QB, more sacks, and more TOs. I wonder if the stats prove that out? Just as a fan who gets more enjoyment watching D than O, I prefer the 3-4. Seems to produce more fireworks. Let's face it, sacks and TOs are the home run balls of a D. If your D is not producing them, you are not only boring, you're probably not holding up your end of the field by giving your O some momentum when it needs it. Hell, look at how many bad teams have just marched down the field on the Broncos. The Chefs put an 8 minute, 80 yard drive on Shanahan's D. That's got to leave a mark. The nice thing about a base 3-4 is that it gives you all sorts of options and looks to choose from. As it is right now, the Broncos' D gives opposing QBs very little to think about.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:19 AM   #5
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History leason...

Go back to the eightys and see wich defense was better. The AFC ran the 3 4 defense and the NFC ran the 4 3 the AFC lost every year to the NFC because the NFC had centers that could handle the NT with out any help. That is the weakness of the 3-4 defense is right up the gut if your center can do the job.

Denver use to be a very good 3-4 Defensive team back in the day and would get blown out in the Super bowls.

Just fix our current scheme and get a center that can block the NT without any help and we will crush these 3-4 defenses.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:23 AM   #6
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Well, that's the trick of the 3-4: Find a dominating NT. Not too easy to do.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:35 AM   #7
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History leason...

Go back to the eightys and see wich defense was better. The AFC ran the 3 4 defense and the NFC ran the 4 3 the AFC lost every year to the NFC because the NFC had centers that could handle the NT with out any help. That is the weakness of the 3-4 defense is right up the gut if your center can do the job.

Denver use to be a very good 3-4 Defensive team back in the day and would get blown out in the Super bowls.

Just fix our current scheme and get a center that can block the NT without any help and we will crush these 3-4 defenses.
NY Giants.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:02 AM   #8
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It seems that we've had a lot more luck with drafting LBs. Maybe this isnt such a bad idea.
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:37 AM   #9
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Drafting Terrence Cody would be the key. He'll probably climb the boards after he shows his strength and agility at the Combine. I want him or Jeria Peters whether the Broncos go 3-4 or not.

Last edited by Rohirrim; 12-23-2008 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 12-23-2008, 10:53 AM   #10
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Drafting Terrence Cody would be the key. He'll probably climb the boards after he shows his strength and agility at the Combine. I want him or Jeria Peters whether the Broncos go 3-4 or not.
That and getting Fields (an experienced NT). Which because he young has chance to rotate with Cody, so we don't depend on rookie to be the key to the defense..
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:01 AM   #11
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It sure would give us a lot more flexibility to secure (highly) successful draft. We could pick up some great value in the mid to late rounds because of it.

It would be like what we do for rb's and Olinemen, except for defense, because (hopefully) we would have a whole system that these tweeners could fit into, be versatile, flexible and successful to the scheme and the different given situations.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:26 AM   #12
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Well this all for not, according to this http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings...2010&genpos=DT

12/18/08 - Alabama's All-American junior nose tackle Terrence Cody confirmed tonight that he is not putting his name up to the NFL Draft advisory board and will return to the Crimson Tide for his senior season. "I talked to Coach Saban quite a few times about it," Cody said. "I told him what I really wanted to do. He felt like it was good for me to do that, too. I told him I felt like I needed another year to get full control and get my weight down and then get my knee back to full health." Cody has said all along that he would likely return. But there was a minor panic online last night when Cody's Facebook status changed to say he was going pro. He said tonight that it was merely a joke by his girlfriend and he never anticipated the immediate, overwhelming response it drew from Alabama fans. While Cody said he's certain to return, junior tailback Glen Coffee said he has submitted his name to the advisory board, joining junior left tackle Andre Smith, who said earlier today he has filed his paperwork. - Gentry Estes, Everything Alabama
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Old 12-23-2008, 12:12 PM   #13
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Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:24 PM   #14
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i would move dj inside and put moss on the outside i would hope he could do it on the outside
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=1...3&rc=16&pid=22

Theres kind of a dearth of guys well over 300 that are decent. I like Brace and Raji but it would be kind of an undertaking doing this with a rookie at NT.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:51 AM   #16
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http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=1...3&rc=16&pid=22

Theres kind of a dearth of guys well over 300 that are decent. I like Brace and Raji but it would be kind of an undertaking doing this with a rookie at NT.
That why I figure we need to sign Fields. Between Fields, Brace/Raji, Powell and Shaw/Clemens we should be able to find rotate of NTs that should work.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:53 AM   #17
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i would move dj inside and put moss on the outside i would hope he could do it on the outside
I rather have DJ playing in space which we know he can do. Moss, I believe is too tall to be effective LB, so I kinda turned him into our pass rusher in the nickle and dime formation, when Denver goes four down linemen.
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Old 12-24-2008, 06:25 AM   #18
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I still don't understand why folks constantly want to get rid of the only player we have-Dumervil-that can rush the passer.

Dumervil problem is that he is being misused. He's not an everydown player. He's situational pass rusher and should be used as such. Same goes for Moss.
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:37 AM   #19
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3-4 with: Woodyard - Larsen - Rey-Rey - DJ

Definitely would bring the pop-- esp in the MIDDLE...



sure would be fun to watch...
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Old 12-24-2008, 10:39 AM   #20
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Rey-Rey and Larsen could be our new DS49/Atwater... you know, just at a different position... But the hits would be lethal...
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Old 12-29-2008, 12:59 PM   #21
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Well, that's the trick of the 3-4: Find a dominating NT. Not too easy to do.
Draft BJ Raji. Next.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:15 PM   #22
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Will People Quit ****ing Bringing Up A 3-4 Defensive Change!!!!
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:30 PM   #23
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Anyone who thinks Boss or indeed DJ Williams could play OLB in a real 3-4 defense are very naive.

Neither player has the size or indeed the pass rushing ability required for the position, infact Boss would be totally useless in a 3-4 and DJ would only be adequate at best as the non-thumper ILB. The only 2 players who currently fit the 3-4 OLB role on our roster are Mario Haggan over 260lbs and Jarvis Moss and whilst Haggan has limited pass rushing ability, Moss would need some serious work on his coverage skills.
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Old 12-29-2008, 10:20 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
Playing this out BECAUSE I am really really bored and jack ass upstairs is hammering, ****er. Plus with Cody out I need to change the game plan a little.
1. Knowshon Moreno Gives the offense the runner it needs. If needed Denver should move up a couple slots with 3rd from next year

2. Louis Delmas Western Michigan fast riser, that would be nice complement with Barrett. Supposed a the hardest hitter in the draft. If we pick up Oshiomogho Atogwe then go for the BJ Raji since Cody is out

3.Ramses Barden (WR CAL Pol) This guy reminds me so much of Marshall or Vinect Jackson and I think he fits the offense to a "T"

4.(from Doom Trade) Ron Brace BC other DT at 326 has the size to play NT.

4.Worrell William New ILB in the 3/4 with Larson

5.Jeremy Perry (OR) Big OG that has decent movement.

5.Terrance Taylor (MICH) was consider one of better Sr DT coming into the year, but with Cody out need to find a couple of bodies that might be able to play 3/4 NT plus fields(FA)

5.Stryker Sulak (MIZZ) DE that will need to transition to OLB in the pros. Depth and Development

6.Anthony Hill (NC ST) TE - Bigger blocking TE that decent hands, will allow both Mustard and Jackson to move on.

7.David Johnson (FB) Ark State. Need a FB to replace Larson at 250 pounder is potential goal line/short yard blocker when they move Hillis into the power back mode.

7.Carey Harris (CB) USC coming off shoulder surgery, ST player and depth in the secondary can return kicks
If you expect to get Terrance Taylor in the 5th, you must be smoking something.
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Old 12-30-2008, 08:00 AM   #25
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It seems that we've had a lot more luck with drafting LBs. Maybe this isnt such a bad idea.
I don't see a whole lot better success at LB than DE. Both have a few guys who've shown flashes recently and a bunch of scrubs.

The 4-3 is a better fit for the talent we have right now, so unless we're going to throw the baby out with the bathwater and start over we're a 4-3 team. We need someone like Mike Wafle from the Giants to overhaul our DL.

First step I think we should take in that direction would be drafting red shirt sophomore Gerald McCoy with the 12th overall pick if he comes out.
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