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Old 04-21-2009, 04:46 AM   #851
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Originally Posted by SouthStndJunkie View Post
Not sure what his trade value would be....a 3rd round pick sounds about right....with a late round pick tossed in.
It's not as if he was a total bust. The 3rd or 5th overall pick in his draft isn't getting shipped anywhere unless there is a 2nd rd pick at the least involved in what they get in return.
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Old 04-21-2009, 04:52 AM   #852
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What in the hell have you been smoking in your peacepipe dude?
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:34 AM   #853
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Do you disagree that it typically takes a player two years to fully return from an ACL?
With the strides made in "treatment" in the last few years, and the fact that I can no longer name any recent cases where it took that long, I'd say yes that I disagree.

Rodney Harrison, Carson Palmer and Ronnie Brown.....all on the field less than 12 months after said injury and all at least arguably performed at or above their previous levels.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:25 AM   #854
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With the strides made in "treatment" in the last few years, and the fact that I can no longer name any recent cases where it took that long, I'd say yes that I disagree.

Rodney Harrison, Carson Palmer and Ronnie Brown.....all on the field less than 12 months after said injury and all at least arguably performed at or above their previous levels.

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Old 04-21-2009, 10:49 AM   #855
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Originally Posted by OSKIE!!! View Post
Solid rebuttal. What part of my post do you disagree with, specifically?

Palmer had surgery for that injury in Jan of 2006. He started all 16 games in 2006 and passed the 4,000 yard mark for the first time in his career, finishing the season with a franchise record 4,035 passing yards and 28 touchdowns, only 13 interceptions and 93.9 rating. He also made the Pro Bowl for the second year in a row, becoming the first Bengals quarterback to do this since Boomer Esiason in 1988 and 1989. Palmer was named Most Outstanding Player at the Pro Bowl, leading the AFC down the field in the final two minutes for the win. He completed 8 of 17 passes for 190 yards and 2 touchdowns, one to his Bengals teammate Chad Johnson.

Rodney Harrison was back in the starting lineup for the Pats only 10 months after his surgery. He was 100%, but had his season cut short by an unrelated shoulder injury about halfway through the year.

Brown pretty much threw up career best numbers last season, less than 12 months after his surgery.

Back in the day, perhaps it took two full seasons to bounce back from that surgery. I suppose that belief had to come from somewhere. Maybe it still does for some. I just can't name them......(and it certainly wasn't the case for the guys listed above)
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:06 AM   #856
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Isn't micofracture surgery what ended Lepis' career.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:24 AM   #857
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Isn't micofracture surgery what ended Lepis' career.
He admitted his play regressed....combine that with the fact that he had two knee surgeries (one on each knee) in less than 2 years (one in 06 and one in 07).
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:25 PM   #858
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Isn't micofracture surgery what ended Lepis' career.
I think getting old combined with the surgeries did him in.
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:54 PM   #859
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Solid rebuttal. What part of my post do you disagree with, specifically?

Palmer had surgery for that injury in Jan of 2006. He started all 16 games in 2006 and passed the 4,000 yard mark for the first time in his career, finishing the season with a franchise record 4,035 passing yards and 28 touchdowns, only 13 interceptions and 93.9 rating. He also made the Pro Bowl for the second year in a row, becoming the first Bengals quarterback to do this since Boomer Esiason in 1988 and 1989. Palmer was named Most Outstanding Player at the Pro Bowl, leading the AFC down the field in the final two minutes for the win. He completed 8 of 17 passes for 190 yards and 2 touchdowns, one to his Bengals teammate Chad Johnson.

Rodney Harrison was back in the starting lineup for the Pats only 10 months after his surgery. He was 100%, but had his season cut short by an unrelated shoulder injury about halfway through the year.

Brown pretty much threw up career best numbers last season, less than 12 months after his surgery.

Back in the day, perhaps it took two full seasons to bounce back from that surgery. I suppose that belief had to come from somewhere. Maybe it still does for some. I just can't name them......(and it certainly wasn't the case for the guys listed above)

Palmer yes, Ronnie Brown had nearly 1000 yards (total offense) when he went down 5 or 6 games into the 07 season. He has barely the same #'s in a full season the year after his reconstruction and you say he was better upon his return. Lots of fail in that statement.

Rodney Harrison had 138 tackles in 2004. He also had 3 sacks, 10 or so passes defended and another 5 turnovers (ff, fr, ints). He played 3 games in 05 and then went down with injury. In 2006 he had 50 tackles with only 1 interception and only 1 forced fumble. Certainly not "at or above his previous level" as you stated.


Finally, you are comparing apples to oranges with the different positions. The amount of cutting a QB does vs a RB is vastly different. You are right though that the "medicine" for today's athletes is much better than in years past. I think a better example of that would be Philip Rivers who incorporated a QB's routine movements into his rehab program. That allowed him to gain the functional strength (and more importantly confidence) in his knee that he would need for the QB position. Something that is not possible with a RB b/c of the position's requirements for continuous cutting. Anyhow, here's something I found just for you...

Major leg injuries and running backs do not mix, and it takes time (typically two full years from the season when the major leg injury occurred) to recover to the pre-injury form that these backs enjoyed when punishing NFL defenses on a regular basis. Deuce McAllister and Jamal Lewis are the only two backs to produce numbers extremely similar to their pre-injury form on their first year back from a major leg injury. For Lewis, there are two possible explanations that could help account for this. The first lies in the fact that Lewis tore his ACL during the preseason in the summer of 2000, hence Lewis had longer to rehab the injury and prepare for the 2002 season when compared to previous backs that tore their ACL during the regular season. The second possible explanation lies in the fact that Lewis had previously torn his ACL during his sophomore year of college while playing at Tennessee; consequently, he already experienced the recovery process and knew both physically and mentally what it would take to rehabilitate his knee and return to a high level of play. As for McAllister, he is the exception to the norm as we have no concrete reason why he was able to return to his preinjury form so quickly. He did injure his knee in 2005 relatively early in the season (week 5), but that is not early enough to consider it a significant advantage in terms of recovery time. In every data set there are always a few points outside the data band, and McAllister to his credit is one of those points. Hearst also had one of the better years on his return (70% of his previous fantasy performance based on a standard performance scoring system), but similar to Lewis, Hearst also had more time to rehabilitate his injury compared to other players (in fact, he had an additional year to recover). Regardless, the overall trend illustrates that some of the best backs in the game struggled on their first year immediately returning from a major leg injury.

Why does this RB two-year injury rule seem to exist?
In a word---hesitation. When returning to the gridiron after recovering from a significant leg injury, it is almost impossible for a running back to not hesitate when running with the ball. Minor leg injuries such as sprains and pulled muscles can and should be expected for running backs in the NFL, but major leg injuries such as a torn ACL can be devastating to a RB and delay their progress to returning to their pre-injury form. The key to this immediate one-year slump lies in the function of the ACL itself. The ACL holds the femur and tibia in place and is one of the most critical ligaments to athletes because of its primary function of stabilizing the knee joint during deceleration. Without the ACL, players would fall to the ground due to the knee buckling when applying pressure from either stopping or changing direction. It is only natural for a RB to be hesitant when running during the first year after an ACL injury. Given the speed of the NFL, there is no room for there to be any kind of hesitation and still expect a running back to put up big numbers.

By the way, for those that have endured a significant leg injury and played some ball, we’re preaching to the choir. For those that haven’t, go talk to someone who has. Physical therapy is brutal and requires not only considerable time to “fully” recover, but also requires tremendous determination and sheer guts. The mental anguish on a player can at times prove to be as strenuous as the physical anguish. It is not uncommon for a player to ponder thoughts of retirement when going through this process, and it is a credit to those that made it all the way back to be able to play at the level the NFL demands.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:17 PM   #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OSKIE!!! View Post
Palmer yes, Ronnie Brown had nearly 1000 yards (total offense) when he went down 5 or 6 games into the 07 season. He has barely the same #'s in a full season the year after his reconstruction and you say he was better upon his return. Lots of fail in that statement.
I dealt with the inflated 7 game - 2007 numbers earlier (just look at what he did the prior two full seasons.....it was the same as what he did last year, if not worse overall). But please continue to ignore things like TDs because they don't fit your argument. Focus only on those isolated 7 games instead of his entire 4 year career.

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Originally Posted by OSKIE!!! View Post
Rodney Harrison had 138 tackles in 2004. He also had 3 sacks, 10 or so passes defended and another 5 turnovers (ff, fr, ints). He played 3 games in 05 and then went down with injury. In 2006 he had 50 tackles with only 1 interception and only 1 forced fumble. Certainly not "at or above his previous level" as you stated.
Again, you are the master of numbers with no context. He only played in 8 full games in 2006 (the year after his surgery). He was out the other 8 due to unrelated injuries. While he was in there though, he performed roughly on par with what he was doing immediately pre-injury. Of course if you go 2+ years before that, when he was in his prime and played a full season, the numbers are going to seem way off. But in reality, other than a slight dip, which is normal due to age and wear and tear, his performance didn't suffer because of the ACL. That was my point. His age HAS to be taken into account.

The rest of your post is anecdotal and doesn't even have a link. It also doesn't help me in my quest for a list of guys in the past few years who required two full years to get back into top shape instead of one or less.
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Old 04-21-2009, 01:46 PM   #861
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It's not as if he was a total bust. The 3rd or 5th overall pick in his draft isn't getting shipped anywhere unless there is a 2nd rd pick at the least involved in what they get in return.
I said a 3rd round pick with a late round pick tossed in.

I don't think they could get a 2nd round pick in return.
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:22 PM   #862
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Titans Talking To Cardinals About Boldin

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...-about-boldin/

Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 23, 2009, 10:47 p.m. EDT

The Tennessee Titans are exploring the possibility of a trade for Pro Bowl wide receiver Anquan Boldin, making inquiries with the Arizona Cardinals about a prospective deal, according to Jim Wyatt of the Tennessean.

Citing sources, the report states that the two sides aren’t on the verge of striking a deal two days prior to the NFL Draft.

The Titans could definitely use a proven wide receiver to boost a dormant passing game. Tennessee recently made a bid for Torry Holt, but he signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Holding 10 draft picks, the Titans are capable of wheeling and dealing to try to obtain Boldin.

“It’s safe to say we’re always trying to get the team better, so we’ll continue to monitor various situations,’’ Titans General Manager Mike Reinfeldt said. “But there’s a numbers of players that are discussed at this point and time, that’s kind of the way it works.”

Other receivers that are reportedly of interest to the Titans via trade: Braylon Edwards, Roscoe Parrish and Chad Johnson.

“There’s always that potential,’’ Reinfeldt said. “I wouldn’t rule it out. … It would have to be a situation of equity and you’d consider it then.’’

The Titans signed former Pittsburgh Steelers third wide receiver Nate Washington to a free agent deal this offseason, but want to continue to bolster their receiving corps with a potential No. 1 wideout.
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Old 04-26-2009, 07:56 AM   #863
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Drafting Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry in the first round triggered an immediate ripple effect on the Seattle Seahawks’ roster.

According to Eric Williams of the Tacoma News-Tribune, the Seahawks have rescinded the franchise tag on linebacker Leroy Hill in a move that immediately frees up salary cap space and makes him an unrestricted free agent.

Hill hadn’t shown up for minicamps after not signing his $8.3 million one-year tender and reportedly turned down a six-year, $36 million offer sheet. However, team officials said that they plan to continue to negotiate with Hill even now that the tag has been removed.

Per the report, the transaction was executed just hours after the Seahawks tabbed Curry, the Dick Butkus Award winner, as the fourth overall pick. Of course, the cap money that was assigned to Hill will be taken up in large part by Curry’s pending rookie deal.

Arrested in January on a marijuana possession charge in Atlanta, Hill apologized for the incident. That off-field incident doesn’t seem to be the reason behind the decision to pull the tag.
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Old 04-26-2009, 08:42 AM   #864
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Drafting Wake Forest linebacker Aaron Curry in the first round triggered an immediate ripple effect on the Seattle Seahawks’ roster.

According to Eric Williams of the Tacoma News-Tribune, the Seahawks have rescinded the franchise tag on linebacker Leroy Hill in a move that immediately frees up salary cap space and makes him an unrestricted free agent.

Hill hadn’t shown up for minicamps after not signing his $8.3 million one-year tender and reportedly turned down a six-year, $36 million offer sheet. However, team officials said that they plan to continue to negotiate with Hill even now that the tag has been removed.

Per the report, the transaction was executed just hours after the Seahawks tabbed Curry, the Dick Butkus Award winner, as the fourth overall pick. Of course, the cap money that was assigned to Hill will be taken up in large part by Curry’s pending rookie deal.

Arrested in January on a marijuana possession charge in Atlanta, Hill apologized for the incident. That off-field incident doesn’t seem to be the reason behind the decision to pull the tag.
Sucks for Hill. Much of the salary cap money for teams is gone, teams have filled needs through the draft and the tender is off the table.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:55 PM   #865
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Cards Cut Edgerrin James

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...dgerrin-james/

Posted by Mike Florio on April 28, 2009, 6:45 p.m. EDT

As expected, the Arizona Cardinals have released running back Edgerrin James.

James, a ten-year veteran who joined the Cardinals three years ago, began lobbying for his release not long after he was benched for rookie Tim Hightower during the 2008 regular season. Even after James regained his starting job for the postseason run, he wasn’t regarded as a guy who would remain with the team for the final season of his four-year deal.

And he still wanted out.

Once the Cardinals picked Ohio State running back Chris “Beanie” Wells in round one, it became obvious that the defending NFC champs would move on.

The transaction frees up $5 million in cap space, which in theory could be used to sign receiver Anquan Boldin to a new contract.

The Cardinals also cut defensive end/linebacker Travis LaBoy and cornerback Rod Hood.

“It’s never easy to release veteran players who have contributed to the team’s success and these three individuals certainly fall into that category,” coach Ken Whisenhunt said in a team-issued release. “But like every decision we make, it simply comes down to what is in the best interest of our football team and what gives us the best chance for success. We’re grateful to all three of them for their contributions and wish them nothing but the best in the future.”
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:19 PM   #866
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Veteran blocking fullback and special-teams player Andrew Pinnock was cut today, the Denver Broncos announced.

The transaction accompanied the official signing of former Baltimore Ravens linebacker Nick Greisen, a move we reported last night.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:36 PM   #867
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Veteran blocking fullback and special-teams player Andrew Pinnock was cut today, the Denver Broncos announced.

The transaction accompanied the official signing of former Baltimore Ravens linebacker Nick Greisen, a move we reported last night.
Boy, you'd better not be an out-of-work NFL LB or DT. Josh McDaniels darn well might break into your home at 3 AM and force you to sign a contract.

How many of these people are we going to bring in?

Now, we've started kicking them out the exit while we're dragging them in through the front door.
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:39 PM   #868
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how dare he work after hours!
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Old 04-29-2009, 10:39 PM   #869
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Why the hell is Favre on my tv AGAIN!
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Old 04-30-2009, 09:55 PM   #870
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Veteran unrestricted free agent center Eric Ghiaciuc has signed with the Kansas City Chiefs, the team announced today.

Contract terms weren’t disclosed, as per club policy.

A former Cincinnati Bengals fourth-round draft pick, Ghiaciuc has started 42 career games.

Drafted in 2005, the 6′4″, 303-pounder was picked 119th overall out of Central Michigan.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:05 PM   #871
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Report: Seahawks Strike Deal With Leroy Hill
Posted by Aaron Wilson on April 30, 2009, 9:48 p.m.
Less than a week after the Seattle Seahawks lifted the franchise tag on linebacker Leroy Hill, the NFC West club struck a deal with him tonight on a six-year, $38 million contract, according to John Clayton of ESPN.com.

The contract reportedly includes $15.5 million in guaranteed money, and it follows Seahawks coach Jim Mora forecasting in a radio interview earlier today that a deal is imminent.

Per the report, Hill’s deal includes a specific addendum to the contract language that would allow him to keep his guaranteed money even if he is possibly suspended by the NFL as a consequence of a recent off-field incident involving possession of marijuana.

Citing a source, Clayton reports that Hill is now assured of receiving that money regardless of whether he is disciplined by the league.

Hill received $2 million more over the course of the entire deal than the six-year offer he declined to sign before having the tag rescinded.
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Old 04-30-2009, 10:06 PM   #872
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Why the hell is Favre on my tv AGAIN!
Is this an episode of Blind Date with Brett and Madden?
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Old 05-04-2009, 08:20 AM   #873
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Herm To Be The Next Coors Light Former Coach

Posted by Mike Florio on May 4, 2009, 10:25 a.m. EDT

NFL rules prevent current head coaches from hawking beer. And so when a current NFL head coach becomes a former NFL head coach, he becomes a candidate for the Coors Light commercials featuring old footage augmented with smartass questions and comments about beer and other stuff not about football.

The latest former NFL head coach to join the crowd? Herm Edwards of the Chiefs, according to Terry Lefton of SportsBusiness Journal.

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Old 05-04-2009, 12:18 PM   #874
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Herm To Be The Next Coors Light Former Coach

Posted by Mike Florio on May 4, 2009, 10:25 a.m. EDT

NFL rules prevent current head coaches from hawking beer. And so when a current NFL head coach becomes a former NFL head coach, he becomes a candidate for the Coors Light commercials featuring old footage augmented with smartass questions and comments about beer and other stuff not about football.

The latest former NFL head coach to join the crowd? Herm Edwards of the Chiefs, according to Terry Lefton of SportsBusiness Journal.

And the Chiefs traded picks for him.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:58 AM   #875
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Bengals Cut Levi Jones

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/...ut-levi-jones/

Posted by Mike Florio on May 6, 2009, 12:17 p.m. EDT

The Cincinnati Bengals have released veteran left tackle Levi Jones. The team announced the move earlier today.

Jones was a first-round pick in 2002, and he quickly became a fixture on the left side of the line.

Signed through 2012, Jones was due to earn a base salary of $3 million this year. (Frankly, it’s a reasonable amount for a guy who by all appearances can still play.)

The Bengals held onto Jones until they could obtain his replacement, Alabama’s Andre Smith, with the sixth overall pick in the 2009 draft.

The departure of Jones means that both starting tackles from 2008 are now gone. Right tackle Stacy Andrews signed with the Eagles early in free agency.

The Bengals reportedly informed Jones after picking Smith that the team would try to trade Jones before cutting him. They found no suitors.

Now that Jones is on the market, look for the Bills to make a run at him, given that Buffalo traded left tackle Jason Peters and didn’t replace him with either of their first-round draft picks.
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