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Old 05-19-2015, 12:26 PM   #1
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Default In 2008, Jay Cutler was sacked 11 times - this was the Broncos OL

LT- Ryan Clady Erik Pears

LG- Ben Hamilton Dylan Gandy Kory Lichtensteiger

C- Casey Wiegmann PJ Alexander

RG- Chris Kuper Montrae Holland Mitch Erickson

RT- Ryan Harris Tyler Polumbus

Ryan Clady was a rookie - Ryan Harris was a 2nd year player that started 0 games as a rookie.

Rick Dennison was on the staff (listed as OC but Bates was calling the plays from what I remember)

Let the coaches coach and the players play.

Way too much crying going on around here about the OL.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:34 PM   #2
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Hey you don't like the cry babies don't login Mr Man
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:48 PM   #3
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Hamilton, Wiegmann and Kuper plus a 12th overall pick in Clady. Our line was solid with one real question mark at RT.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:50 PM   #4
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Go back to 2005, Action. Kubiaks previous Broncos OL Unit.

Offensive line

65 Cooper Carlisle RG
72 George Foster RT
74 Cornell D. Green OT
50 Ben Hamilton G/C
78 Matt Lepsis LT
62 Chris Myers C/G
66 Tom Nalen C
59 Taylor Whitley OG

Lepsis and Nalen were in the twilight of their careers.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:55 PM   #5
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4 out of that 5 were solid. Clady as a top 12 pick. Harris succumbed to injury.


Fail to see how these players compare to career journeymen, and later round pick rooks/zero exp
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:10 PM   #6
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Who cares how they compare. The line is not going to be awesome but it has to be better than last year simply because RT was about as good at blocking as ronnie hillman is to holding the ball.

We have a 2nd and 3rd rd draft pick going to battle it out along with Clark, who may work better in the ZBS. That is an upgrade. It is. Is smith a downgrade from O...probably. but by how much. Anything is better at C than what we had with ManRam and montgomery. I dont care if its gino, paradis or Mad Max Garcia. They will be better than those chumps. That is an improvement also.

So we have 2 improvements and 1 downgrade. Add in an INFINITELY better scheme compared to Gase and we will run the ball better. We will not be predictable. Oh, and we also have Owen Daniels who blocks well and Virg blocks like a MFr already (who happened to be hurt last year too)

And we have a FB who will also be blocking.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
LT- Ryan Clady Erik Pears

LG- Ben Hamilton Dylan Gandy Kory Lichtensteiger

C- Casey Wiegmann PJ Alexander

RG- Chris Kuper Montrae Holland Mitch Erickson

RT- Ryan Harris Tyler Polumbus

Ryan Clady was a rookie - Ryan Harris was a 2nd year player that started 0 games as a rookie.

Rick Dennison was on the staff (listed as OC but Bates was calling the plays from what I remember)

Let the coaches coach and the players play.

Way too much crying going on around here about the OL.
Right! Everybody outside of Clady were late round picks. And 2 or 3 of those back up guys were starting in the league last year.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
4 out of that 5 were solid. Clady as a top 12 pick. Harris succumbed to injury.


Fail to see how these players compare to career journeymen, and later round pick rooks/zero exp
But what was the information at the time?

Let's be honest here, all the people crying and b****ing (you being one of the main people) would still have been crying like little b****es back then too.

Clady - 1st round pick - ROOKIE - top pick or not - nothing is guaranteed for a rookie.

Ben Hamilton - 4th round - only real known at the time, but had concussion issues...fit ZB but an undersized G.

Wiegmann - UDFA - ... Tom Nalen was 1st on the DC to start that year. Casey was picked up off of FA for a measly contract - don't kid yourself. You nor anyone else knew **** about him or how he would do.

Chris Kuper - 5th round pick - 1st season as a full time starter.

Ryan Harris - 3rd round pick - 2nd season in the NFL - didn't start a single game rookie season

The reality is - going into that season there were a bunch of question marks. If anything - we have more knowns right now with Clady and Vazquez. There is more talent to work with on the current roster than back then.

Are you not aware of how much you complain and b**** no matter the situation?
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
Who cares how they compare. The line is not going to be awesome but it has to be better than last year simply because RT was about as good at blocking as ronnie hillman is to holding the ball.

We have a 2nd and 3rd rd draft pick going to battle it out along with Clark, who may work better in the ZBS. That is an upgrade. It is. Is smith a downgrade from O...probably. but by how much. Anything is better at C than what we had with ManRam and montgomery. I dont care if its gino, paradis or Mad Max Garcia. They will be better than those chumps. That is an improvement also.

So we have 2 improvements and 1 downgrade. Add in an INFINITELY better scheme compared to Gase and we will run the ball better. We will not be predictable. Oh, and we also have Owen Daniels who blocks well and Virg blocks like a MFr already (who happened to be hurt last year too)

And we have a FB who will also be blocking.
We don't know that though. What we do know - is that the line has to cohesively come together, build, and develop throughout the season. It's a long ****ing season - players will get better.

I mean - did you guys not see how much the Patriots shuffled their line throughout the season? The key is to get the team playing great by the end of the season. That means - players have time to learn, develop, improve.

I feel like this is obvious information but people just let it go right over their heads and act as if Broncos are the team in the NFL playing a video game.

This could be a good line, it could be awesome, who the hell knows. But to write ANYTHING off is just ignorance.

If we had all rookies - I understand. But we don't...

Dennison and Kubiak have shown time and time again they can do good work at OL.

I'm not saying we're going to be the Cowboys here - but we will compete.

+ Manning at the line...

Before something is known - it is an unknown.

Oh - and Ronnie Hillman fumbled once last season and didn't lose the possession.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:22 PM   #10
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I understand the comparison you are trying to make, and although the lines are not the same, I do agree that the O Line should be ok.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:25 PM   #11
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Action is right
Hamilton was the only known at that time, and he was just OK

Kuper was a late round youngster
Weigman was a Chiefs castoff
(I remember how my Chief friends were giving me crap about Denver signing a "washed up" center)
Harris and Clady were first time starters with the former having fallen in the draft to back issues

For anyone to suggest at the time these guys were all viewed as "solid" is laughable

Unless you think Dave Magazu unlocked all the potential of our players, then there is room for improvement
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
But what was the information at the time?

Let's be honest here, all the people crying and b****ing (you being one of the main people) would still have been crying like little b****es back then too.

Clady - 1st round pick - ROOKIE - top pick or not - nothing is guaranteed for a rookie.

Ben Hamilton - 4th round - only real known at the time, but had concussion issues...fit ZB but an undersized G.

Wiegmann - UDFA - ... Tom Nalen was 1st on the DC to start that year. Casey was picked up off of FA for a measly contract - don't kid yourself. You nor anyone else knew **** about him or how he would do.

Chris Kuper - 5th round pick - 1st season as a full time starter.

Ryan Harris - 3rd round pick - 2nd season in the NFL - didn't start a single game rookie season

The reality is - going into that season there were a bunch of question marks. If anything - we have more knowns right now with Clady and Vazquez. There is more talent to work with on the current roster than back then.

Are you not aware of how much you complain and b**** no matter the situation?
Wiegmann was an established pro. That pick up would have been similar to picking up Chris Myers this season.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:26 PM   #13
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My point was we arent going to be awesome and I was specifically thinking of the cowboys. That type of awesome. We may be a great OL. But cowboys great is a big stretch. A big one.

Hillman sucks and so did RT last year. That was also the point I was trying to make. I could have used JT and blocking or Decker and 40 yard lines, but I chose the softest RB we have. Point is RT blew ass last year.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by ludo21 View Post
I understand the comparison you are trying to make, and although the lines are not the same, I do agree that the O Line should be ok.
The only point I'm trying to make is we have to let the players play and progress.

I can already see this forum going into flames if OL has a bad game at beginning of season.

Kind of like Patriots in the beginning of last season
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
But what was the information at the time?

Let's be honest here, all the people crying and b****ing (you being one of the main people) would still have been crying like little b****es back then too.

Clady - 1st round pick - ROOKIE - top pick or not - nothing is guaranteed for a rookie.

Ben Hamilton - 4th round - only real known at the time, but had concussion issues...fit ZB but an undersized G.

Wiegmann - UDFA - ... Tom Nalen was 1st on the DC to start that year. Casey was picked up off of FA for a measly contract - don't kid yourself. You nor anyone else knew **** about him or how he would do.

Chris Kuper - 5th round pick - 1st season as a full time starter.

Ryan Harris - 3rd round pick - 2nd season in the NFL - didn't start a single game rookie season

The reality is - going into that season there were a bunch of question marks. If anything - we have more knowns right now with Clady and Vazquez. There is more talent to work with on the current roster than back then.

Are you not aware of how much you complain and b**** no matter the situation?

About the same amount as you b**** and complain about people complaining? Be happy I don't start b****ing threads like some others do.

It's the offseason. Every fan base b****es and complains until it goes on the field. Last offseasons b****ing turned out to be justified in several aspects. This year? We will see.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:31 PM   #16
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About the same amount as you b**** and complain about people complaining? Be happy I don't start b****ing threads like some others do.

It's the offseason. Every fan base b****es and complains until it goes on the field. Last offseasons b****ing turned out to be justified in several aspects. This year? We will see.
In typical female fashion - you respond to the least relevant portion of the post.
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:36 PM   #17
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1997 STARTING OL:

Gary Zimmerman, LT, Supplemental draft: 1984 / Round: 1
Mark Schlereth, LG, 1989 / Round: 10
Tom Nalen C, 1994 / Round: 7
Brian Habib, RG, 1988 / Round: 10
Tony Jones, RT, UNDRAFTED
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:41 PM   #18
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In typical female fashion - you respond to the least relevant portion of the post.


I stopped reading when you said no one knew about Weigmann, even though he had years of starting 16 games before even joining Denver. Established 16 game starter throughout his career = no one knows **** about him.


May 2014 "OL is going to suffer by starting Clark and moving Franklin over to bandaid Beadles departure"

"**** you! There's nothing wrong with the OL! Clarks PFF numbers are great! You're a bad fan!"


Come at me in December after the seasons been played. If the OL plays great I'll eat crow even send you an edible arrangement. If not? I'm comin blazin.

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Old 05-19-2015, 01:47 PM   #19
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I stopped reading when you said no one knew about Weigmann, even though he had years of starting 16 games before even joining Denver.
How did you stop reading if you responded to the very last portion of the post?

Wiegman was 35 when he was signed for a minimum (or near minimum) 2 year contract. There was a reason why he was an OLD FA. You would have been b****ing about the same thing - he was an unknown...old, washed up, can he still play?? - and as I said - he wasn't even supposed to be the starter. I'm not talking about his career prior to the Broncos - I'm talking about RIGHT BEFORE THAT SEASON - you cannot tell me anyone in their right mind was confident in having a 35 year old FA center from the Chiefs was sprouting any confidence.

And the little strategy you use (which is also feminine like) you pick out one portion of a post - claim/believe it's wrong then completely disregard the rest of the post as if it can't be right.

Someone doesn't need to be 100% on point in order for their other points to hold weight.

Keep b****in and crying though
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
How did you stop reading if you responded to the very last portion of the post?

Wiegman was 35 when he was signed for a minimum (or near minimum) 2 year contract. There was a reason why he was an OLD FA. You would have been b****ing about the same thing - he was an unknown...old, washed up, can he still play?? - and as I said - he wasn't even supposed to be the starter. I'm not talking about his career prior to the Broncos - I'm talking about RIGHT BEFORE THAT SEASON - you cannot tell me anyone in their right mind was confident in having a 35 year old FA center from the Chiefs was sprouting any confidence.

And the little strategy you use (which is also feminine like) you pick out one portion of a post - claim/believe it's wrong then completely disregard the rest of the post as if it can't be right.

Someone doesn't need to be 100% on point in order for their other points to hold weight.

Keep b****in and crying though

I liked the Weigmann signing. I liked that offense. I didn't like what happened to it the following spring.


I would think Kubiak/Dennisons time as HC/OC in Houston is a better comparison. But those sacks are Schaubs fault. Wasn't too bad(5.0%) but if Manning is getting sacked 25-30 times in 2015 hes going to die.


Since 2011 no bronco OL had a % as high as 5.0 sack percentage. A lot of that's Manning, but 2.8% is 1st last year, yet the OL was garbage?

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic2; 05-19-2015 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 05-19-2015, 01:59 PM   #21
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I liked the Weigmann signing.
Let's be honest - you're full of **** unless you can prove that.

You b**** about everything and anything.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:06 PM   #22
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Let's be honest - you're full of **** unless you can prove that.

You b**** about everything and anything.

No I don't. You just choose to only point out what I b**** about instead of using the simple ignore feature. Handling of the OL, Fox and Co., Rahim Moore, Mannings age. Greek. It's not like I start meaningless threads about it.....


I love the new regime. Actual coaches and not Fox and Co. i love DT. Harris is my favorite player. Von is awesome even though people say he's invisible. I'm very happy about our CBs. My favorite RB is finally starting. I chose Sanders as most valuable in the poll. Mike Sullivan is about the most valuable person on the staff. I can keep going.

Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic2; 05-19-2015 at 02:12 PM..
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:11 PM   #23
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Since 2011 no bronco OL had a 5.0 sack percentage. A lot of that's Manning, but 2.8% is 1st last year, yet the OL was garbage?
It's not that simple - and yeah most of it is Manning.

OL is also determined by the run game (which was tied for 2nd at 4.8 YPC in 2008). And our OL as of late is terrible at run blocking.

In regards to sacks and the passing game - I think it was pretty damn clear the Broncos had to make some huge adjustments this past year in terms of how long Manning could hold onto the ball, how quickly he had to get rid of it. But Manning's excellence still allowed us to produce and win ball games.

Sacks is not the all and tell all stat, but it is a crucial one to take into account.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:45 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action View Post
LT- Ryan Clady Erik Pears

LG- Ben Hamilton Dylan Gandy Kory Lichtensteiger

C- Casey Wiegmann PJ Alexander

RG- Chris Kuper Montrae Holland Mitch Erickson

RT- Ryan Harris Tyler Polumbus

Ryan Clady was a rookie - Ryan Harris was a 2nd year player that started 0 games as a rookie.

Rick Dennison was on the staff (listed as OC but Bates was calling the plays from what I remember)

Let the coaches coach and the players play.

Way too much crying going on around here about the OL.
Dennison developed the running game plan and blocking assignments. Bates was responsible for developing the passing game plan and passing the plays into Cutler from the sideline, because he was the QB coach. Shanahan and Dennison called the offense.
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Old 05-19-2015, 02:54 PM   #25
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Lol and Ronnie Hillman gets thrown into this discussion because Action somehow feels he is relevant or a good player. Nah.
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