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Old 10-24-2008, 10:29 AM   #1
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Default Shanahan: HOF Strategist but a Mediocre Motivator?

Let me just say that the only coach out there that I would like to see coaching the Broncos over Mike is Bill Cowher. The reason being, Cowher comes off as the ultimate compliment in the NFL, "A Football Player".

Shanahan strikes me as having an incredible football IQ but a mediocre capacity to relay and inspire passion. His management/coaching style appropriately demands professionalism, work ethic/dedication but doesn't seem to inspire "love of game" and inner fire. When he was younger he seemed to have it. Lately he almost comes off as a salty Grandfather type figure that just expects it rather than being able to create it.

IMHO, I'd love to see Shanny stick around but find a Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Head coach who's perhaps a bit younger at least in spirit. I see him bringing in people like Jeremy Bates who is a model of a young Shanahan, bright but academic. I think we need a Mike Singletary type. An in your face coach that demands passion by sheer will.

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Old 10-24-2008, 10:38 AM   #2
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First off, I still support Shanahan. However, I don't disagree with your take. My thoughts are that in his quest to regain glory, he has lost his sense of patience and loyalty. A coach or player can be fired, promoted, demoted, inactive, waived or cut at the drop of the hat. Therefore, the players see no loyalty towards themselves, so why give it to Shanahan?

The result is what we have seen this year. Inconsistent play with a lack of fire, intensity and passion from everyone except Champ Bailey, and a handful of others.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:42 AM   #3
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hey wow....another thread like this....
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:44 AM   #4
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Stevie Wonder could see Shanny wasn't a great motivator never has been.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:48 AM   #5
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Great Coaches don't necessarily need to be great motivators. Especially in pro sports. The Best Teams have one Alpha Male that leads the Team and Motivates them to success.

Alpha Males=

Reggie White
Ray Lewis
John Elway
Warren Sapp

We do not have that type of player on this team at this time.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:26 AM   #6
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So Jake Plummer was an Alpha male
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:46 AM   #7
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So Jake Plummer was an Alpha male
Al Wilson says hello.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:29 PM   #8
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I think Shanny probably alienates a lot of players. Players are much bigger pussies than they used to be. In older generations if a player fumbles or screws up, he gets torn a new one on the sidelines and says "well shucks, I won't let that happen again". Nowadays if Shanny tears someone a new one it's more likely to hurt the players' feelings and leave him sulking, thus achieving the opposite of motivation.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:32 PM   #9
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The impression I have often gotten from Shanny's remarks is that these guys
are pros, and they shouldn't need all this "rah rah" stuff. And that has always
concerned me.

I don't care how "pro" they are; they are humans with emotions, and football is
an emotional game. I grew up watching the likes of Vince Lombardi take inferior
teams to championships . . . that is, inferior in overall talent, but the best team
in the league because of chemistry and his emotion. Lombardi was a very
emotional coach.

I still remember his championship victories, such as the one in the "Ice Bowl"
over the heavily talented Dallas Cowboys and their stoic coach Tom Landry.

I remember how Red Miller took the 1977 Denver Broncos to the AFC
Championship over the more talented Pittsburgh Steelers and Oakland Raiders.
Red Miller was an emotional man.

I would not want to do without Shanny's genius. But I would love to see him
surround himself with some emotional people. That's much what Coyer did
with a realitively inferior defense in talent, IMO.

I just wish Shanny would come to the point where he would muse, "We need
some emotion. I'm not emotional. I'm going to get some emotional guys."

/RANT

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Old 10-24-2008, 12:40 PM   #10
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shanny knows very little about defense and that's his only x o weakness. If he would give up control and let the team have GM with power and let that guy bring in the d coord then shanny would rule.

But like any man shanny knows it's better to be king, he won 2 superbowls when Broncos were friggin losers.

I think what we are seeing here is fans that lived through 4 superbowl losses realize we were nothing but a joke until we rose up and beat Packers that day. I for one will never say anything bad about Shanny as a coach outside of not knowing defense well, and maybe sometimes making strange calls. But over a decade of watching you are bound too see things that dont work out.

Give Shanny better players and they will win. The defense is full of scrubs and maybe its because shanny doesn't evaluate that aspect very well.

We are rebuilding and found a couple more players this yr. Be confident Shanny knows what he is doing and I for one see real progress.

We had Marshal to start the yr. Now we have Royal we looks like he an be a decent starter or a great 3rd to me.

We found a franchise LT or at least a really good starter.

We found a kicker we seem to be able to rely on.

Those 3 things seem like givens to me who knows some other young players might also contribute next yr like Larsen, Woodyard, Jack Williams etc.

The defense is a mess and will have to be adressed with high picks on the first day and some FA moves if guys are out there. Honestly it could be slim pickens next yr in FA.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
shanny knows very little about defense and that's his only x o weakness. If he would give up control and let the team have GM with power and let that guy bring in the d coord then shanny would rule.

But like any man shanny knows it's better to be king, he won 2 superbowls when Broncos were friggin losers.

I think what we are seeing here is fans that lived through 4 superbowl losses realize we were nothing but a joke until we rose up and beat Packers that day. I for one will never say anything bad about Shanny as a coach outside of not knowing defense well, and maybe sometimes making strange calls. But over a decade of watching you are bound too see things that dont work out.

Give Shanny better players and they will win. The defense is full of scrubs and maybe its because shanny doesn't evaluate that aspect very well.

We are rebuilding and found a couple more players this yr. Be confident Shanny knows what he is doing and I for one see real progress.

We had Marshal to start the yr. Now we have Royal we looks like he an be a decent starter or a great 3rd to me.

We found a franchise LT or at least a really good starter.

We found a kicker we seem to be able to rely on.

Those 3 things seem like givens to me who knows some other young players might also contribute next yr like Larsen, Woodyard, Jack Williams etc.

The defense is a mess and will have to be adressed with high picks on the first day and some FA moves if guys are out there. Honestly it could be slim pickens next yr in FA.
You make some good points, but I don't agree that the defense is "full of
scrubs." There are some holes, yes. They are decidedly inferior at safety,
MLB, and depth at DT. But, with Champ, Bly, D.J., Boss, Thomas, Robertson,
and Dumervil, I can't look at the unit and say they are "full of scrubs."

I really believe, as was mentioned elsewhere, they have a very good position
coach but a poor DC in Slowik. I would honestly like to see them take a look
at a Nolan or even a Schottenheimer. While I am usually death on replacing
coaches in midstream, I don't know how they could make it much worse at
this point.

I do like your suggestions regarding Larsen, Woodyard, and J. Williams. I know
from watching Larsen throughout his college career that he breathes fire
and eats the coals. And Woodyard and Williams seem full of fire, too.

Just a little off-topic aside: I never did tolerate the concept that the Broncos
of the '80s were a "joke." Yes, they were creamed in three straight Super
Bowls, but I never forgot there were 30 other teams wishing they were losing
in the SB instead of watching someone else do it. The Broncos were the #2
team in the league all three of those years . . . as well as in 1977. And I
never let rival buddies forget that when they tried to smack me over it.

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Old 10-24-2008, 01:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topscribe View Post
Just a little off-topic aside: I never did tolerate the concept that the Broncos
of the '80s were a "joke." Yes, they were creamed in three straight Super
Bowls, but I never forgot there were 30 other teams wishing they were losing
in the SB instead of watching someone else do it. The Broncos were the #2
team in the league all three of those years . . . as well as in 1977. And I
never let rival buddies forget that when they tried to smack me over it.

-----
I agree with your disagreement. Going to the Super Bowl three times in the span of a few years is still quite a feat, particularly when the talent did not necessarily reflect the accomplishment.
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsco70 View Post
I agree with your disagreement. Going to the Super Bowl three times in the span of a few years is still quite a feat, particularly when the talent did not necessarily reflect the accomplishment.
. . . And Reeves was a motivator, and he backed up what he did by the way he motivated the Giants and later the Falcons.



So I agree with your agreement of my disagreement and disagree with any disagreement of your agreement with my disagreement.



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Last edited by Greybeard; 10-24-2008 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 10-24-2008, 01:26 PM   #14
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Did someone say something about motivation?

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Old 10-24-2008, 02:10 PM   #15
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Stevie Wonder could see Shanny wasn't a great motivator never has been.
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Old 10-24-2008, 02:40 PM   #16
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Maybe they ought to go to Rod Smith and beg him on their hands and knees to come in and coach:

http://cbs4denver.com/video/?id=48398@kcnc.dayport.com

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Old 10-24-2008, 04:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsco70 View Post
First off, I still support Shanahan. However, I don't disagree with your take. My thoughts are that in his quest to regain glory, he has lost his sense of patience and loyalty. A coach or player can be fired, promoted, demoted, inactive, waived or cut at the drop of the hat. Therefore, the players see no loyalty towards themselves, so why give it to Shanahan?

The result is what we have seen this year. Inconsistent play with a lack of fire, intensity and passion from everyone except Champ Bailey, and a handful of others.
I think this is a very good point. It does seem as if the second half of Shanahan's tenure has been 'what have you done for me lately' regarding
the players.

I was very very surprised at the way Al Wilson was treated.
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Old 10-24-2008, 05:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambone13 View Post
Let me just say that the only coach out there that I would like to see coaching the Broncos over Mike is Bill Cowher. The reason being, Cowher comes off as the ultimate compliment in the NFL, "A Football Player".

Shanahan strikes me as having an incredible football IQ but a mediocre capacity to relay and inspire passion. His management/coaching style appropriately demands professionalism, work ethic/dedication but doesn't seem to inspire "love of game" and inner fire. When he was younger he seemed to have it. Lately he almost comes off as a salty Grandfather type figure that just expects it rather than being able to create it.

IMHO, I'd love to see Shanny stick around but find a Defensive Coordinator/Assistant Head coach who's perhaps a bit younger at least in spirit. I see him bringing in people like Jeremy Bates who is a model of a young Shanahan, bright but academic. I think we need a Mike Singletary type. An in your face coach that demands passion by sheer will.
Rah-rah coaches don't really do alot for players in the NFL. They got all that type of stuff in hs and college. If they've made it to the NFL, it means they are pretty much self motivated.

It took Cowher a long time to win a SB and I think the Steelers won it because Bettis was retiring and they got on a roll at just the right time. I don't think it had much to do with Cowher getting all jacked up and being excitable.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Did someone say something about motivation?



great clip.
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:46 PM   #20
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Yah, Shanny is not a great motivator on gameday. I don't recall ever seeing him on the sideline gathering a group of players together when the team is getting smoked. In 14 years as HC of the Broncos, what is the largest deficit overcome by the Shanahan Broncos to win a game? I'm asking, I don't know.
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Old 10-24-2008, 07:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topscribe View Post
You make some good points, but I don't agree that the defense is "full of
scrubs." There are some holes, yes. They are decidedly inferior at safety,
MLB, and depth at DT. But, with Champ, Bly, D.J., Boss, Thomas, Robertson,
and Dumervil, I can't look at the unit and say they are "full of scrubs."

I really believe, as was mentioned elsewhere, they have a very good position
coach but a poor DC in Slowik. I would honestly like to see them take a look
at a Nolan or even a Schottenheimer. While I am usually death on replacing
coaches in midstream, I don't know how they could make it much worse at
this point.

I do like your suggestions regarding Larsen, Woodyard, and J. Williams. I know
from watching Larsen throughout his college career that he breathes fire
and eats the coals. And Woodyard and Williams seem full of fire, too.

Just a little off-topic aside: I never did tolerate the concept that the Broncos
of the '80s were a "joke." Yes, they were creamed in three straight Super
Bowls, but I never forgot there were 30 other teams wishing they were losing
in the SB instead of watching someone else do it. The Broncos were the #2
team in the league all three of those years . . . as well as in 1977. And I
never let rival buddies forget that when they tried to smack me over it.

-----
What made Broncos the butt of jokes was being so close and losing the Superbowl. Sure as fans we tried to gloss it up by saying we got to the Superbowl at least. At least we were number 2 four times. In the NFL if you don't win superbowls you don't matter. You don't notice the bills fans reveling in there 2nd place trophies do you? Why? because they don't matter and Bills are joke until they can win a superbowl.

As far as defense being full of scrubs you mentioned what 5-6 players? That mean we have 5-6 scrubs playing also so maybe you just can be more positive then me and see things as glass half full.

Hard for me because I sat at home saying Broncos don't have a SSL, MLB, SS, FS, 3rd corner that are worth playing and it has proven true. I'm mad as hell about the safety's and linebackers because its like the team didn't even try at those spots.

Like you pointed out the Dline with Moss and Thomas, Doom, may have some potential still but with a back end like the Broncos who would know.
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Old 10-24-2008, 09:41 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
Rah-rah coaches don't really do alot for players in the NFL. They got all that type of stuff in hs and college. If they've made it to the NFL, it means they are pretty much self motivated.

It took Cowher a long time to win a SB and I think the Steelers won it because Bettis was retiring and they got on a roll at just the right time. I don't think it had much to do with Cowher getting all jacked up and being excitable.
might as well say that nfl players make millions of dollars and none of them would dare do anything to endanger that by breaking the league's conduct policy. players are human beings, they need to be motivated. it doesn't have to be rah rah, but psychologically you can't just say "you are in NFL now, self-motivate." it don't work like that.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:25 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
What made Broncos the butt of jokes was being so close and losing the Superbowl. Sure as fans we tried to gloss it up by saying we got to the Superbowl at least. At least we were number 2 four times. In the NFL if you don't win superbowls you don't matter. You don't notice the bills fans reveling in there 2nd place trophies do you? Why? because they don't matter and Bills are joke until they can win a superbowl.

As far as defense being full of scrubs you mentioned what 5-6 players? That mean we have 5-6 scrubs playing also so maybe you just can be more positive then me and see things as glass half full.

Hard for me because I sat at home saying Broncos don't have a SSL, MLB, SS, FS, 3rd corner that are worth playing and it has proven true. I'm mad as hell about the safety's and linebackers because its like the team didn't even try at those spots.

Like you pointed out the Dline with Moss and Thomas, Doom, may have some potential still but with a back end like the Broncos who would know.
When fans of teams that did not even get to the SB wanted to disparage the
Broncos who lost in it, I did not take any crap from them. The Broncos played
in it, and the others sat at home and watched. If the Broncos were a joke,
then the others were a riot. I was proud of the Broncos all three times. Fact
is, the loser in the Super Bowl is a conference champion, not a joke.

Regarding the defense, I don't understand your logic. As I understand it,
you're saying that if the five or six players I mentioned are not scrubs, then
the five or six I didn't mention are scrubs? Whatever.

But I believe the SAM is a strength, not a weakness. Boss is a good player,
whether some people want to recognize it or not, and Winborn is a good
backup. And corner is fine, except they could use a 5th for depth.

I still believe the biggest weakness is at DC and the lack of a real motivator.

Of course, my opinions regarding personnel are just that: opinions. But the
fact that the Broncos of the '80s were winners and teams to be proud of is
not opinion. That is fact. The ones who were ashamed of them should have
left town. I don't have much patience with bandwagoners.

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Old 10-24-2008, 11:24 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topscribe View Post
When fans of teams that did not even get to the SB wanted to disparage the
Broncos who lost in it, I did not take any crap from them. The Broncos played
in it, and the others sat at home and watched. If the Broncos were a joke,
then the others were a riot. I was proud of the Broncos all three times. Fact
is, the loser in the Super Bowl is a conference champion, not a joke.

Regarding the defense, I don't understand your logic. As I understand it,
you're saying that if the five or six players I mentioned are not scrubs, then
the five or six I didn't mention are scrubs? Whatever.

But I believe the SAM is a strength, not a weakness. Boss is a good player,
whether some people want to recognize it or not, and Winborn is a good
backup. And corner is fine, except they could use a 5th for depth.

I still believe the biggest weakness is at DC and the lack of a real motivator.

Of course, my opinions regarding personnel are just that: opinions. But the
fact that the Broncos of the '80s were winners and teams to be proud of is
not opinion. That is fact. The ones who were ashamed of them should have
left town. I don't have much patience with bandwagoners.

-----
Boss a good player? nope just another bad move by Broncos. We need a SSL willing to take on blocks like Romo did for us. A guy who will punch a TE in the mouth and then do it again. Winborn is bkup and Boss is a pansy.

The way football works is you have to win Superbowls. If you don't hold Shanny in a higher esteem then Dan Reeves then that's your problem. In my book however you have to win Superbowls in the NFL. If you lose Superbowls that's the opposite of winning them and just because you made it is of little solace to the players or diehard fans.
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:01 AM   #25
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Boss a good player? nope just another bad move by Broncos. We need a SSL willing to take on blocks like Romo did for us. A guy who will punch a TE in the mouth and then do it again. Winborn is bkup and Boss is a pansy.

The way football works is you have to win Superbowls. If you don't hold Shanny in a higher esteem then Dan Reeves then that's your problem. In my book however you have to win Superbowls in the NFL. If you lose Superbowls that's the opposite of winning them and just because you made it is of little solace to the players or diehard fans.
No, it's that I made it that #2 is better than #30. I have never considered a
conference champion and Super Bowl team a joke, whether they won or not.
I was proud of my 80s teams, regardless of your asinine assumptions, such as
where I place Dan Reeves (where did you get that? Are you sober?).

If you want to find fault with me because I am proud of the Broncos, then
maybe you're rooting for the wrong team. Or maybe you're just a bandwagon
fan. I've been with the Broncos for 48 years now, so I don't apologize to
those who were riding around in their daddies' sacs when I became a Broncos
fan.

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