My kingdom for a safety - The Orange Mane

gyldenlove · 10-12-2008, 06:58 PM

Let me just say I am not panicking, I think we will still win the division and make it to the playoffs. We are a few adjustments away from being a good team over all, I think that will be enough to get us at least 1 game in the promised land.

I look at the team and the way it is playing right now, and I see a major weakness. The play of our safeties, they provide no real safety net for our cornerbacks to play aggressively and consequently we have to give up a lot of ground and keep Champ from doing what he does best which is react to the QB and try to make big plays.

Mccree seems to be constantly struggling with positioning, he is often out of position when he plays closer to the line and he fails to make plays on the outside where he should be. It is even worse when he drops back, on several long gains instead of stepping up and trying to stop the ball carrier he ends up running the same way as the carrier without putting any pressure on the ball.

Manuel has been disappointing so far, he has been missing tackles close to the line and has been struggling mightily in pass coverage. His problem seems to stem more from bad fundamentals than a lack of game understanding though.

Of the two, I think Manuel is the one who could be coached and schemed in such a way that his weaknesses aren't as exposed. With that being said, he is going to need a player with strong instincts next to him who can also cover a lot of real estate. I really think that we need to make S our number one priority for the offseason, we need a player who can make plays, who can cover the deep zone and allow us to play more aggressively, who knows when to move up so we don't have to double park a safety in the box on every play.

Goobzilla · 10-12-2008, 07:19 PM

I can't believe that Manuel & McCree are better than Lynch & Abdullah.

kappys · 10-12-2008, 07:20 PM

A very well thought out comment I must say. The deficiencies of our safeties were exposed today. The Jags more or less avoided Champ and Bly and focused on attacking the safeties - and did so very sucessfully. Of course that wouldn't be as big a problem if we had a pass rush...

It'll come down to what's available in the offseason in terms of FA and the draft. There are enough holes on the defense that I think we should focus on taking the best avaible player with regards to any of them rather than targeting a specific problem (safety) to attack first.

McDman · 10-12-2008, 07:39 PM

Eric Berry!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7Oj8wmRLQ

BroncoMan4ever · 10-12-2008, 08:51 PM

that is a well thought out comment on the status of our defense. but i am thinking pass rush is what the team needs most.

I mean for example even if we had Bob Sanders and Troy Polomalu as our Safeties, with the amount of time opposing QB's have to pick our secondary apart, it wouldn't matter that we have pro bowl talent at the Safeties.

Goobzilla · 10-12-2008, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dman444

Eric Berry!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7Oj8wmRLQ

Rerun Berry!

Atwater His Ass · 10-12-2008, 08:57 PM

We could get by with these safties if the QB dind't have 7 seconds to throw on every pass play.

SouthStndJunkie · 10-12-2008, 09:00 PM

Missouri Safety William Moore:

McDman · 10-12-2008, 09:07 PM

NOOO we must have Berry! I'll call up Mike and tell him to take a look at him.

Dudeskey · 10-12-2008, 09:40 PM

And a 3 technique DT

SoCalBronco · 10-12-2008, 09:40 PM

Rashad Johnson!

SouthStndJunkie · 10-12-2008, 09:43 PM

I also like safety Barry Church from Toledo, but this is his junior year.

Not sure if he will declare for the draft.

I think he would be a steal in the second round.

cutthemdown · 10-12-2008, 09:48 PM

Broncos safety's are the worst the NFL has ever seen IMO.

Blart · 10-12-2008, 10:11 PM

They need to hold public tryouts for Safety. Denver is a big city, the Capital of the West, surely someone out there can wrap their arms around a runner's legs.

chrisp · 10-12-2008, 10:26 PM

We don't have a great pass rush, but it is one area where we are merely average. I agree that the achilles heel of this defense is the safeties. I can't believe that an ageing John Lynch would not have been better than at least one of these shmucks we line up every Sunday.

Any defense can use an extra pass rusher and I'm sure we'll be looking out for one, but I have to say that if we go safety at #1 and maybe #3 and #4 as well for good measure i won't be complaining.

For the rest of this season though, we're still on course for something like 10-6 which this year will be good enough for the division, so I think maybe a playoff win at home followed by an exit on the road will be the limit of what we can expect.

The story of today's game, however, was turnovers. If this offense doesn't turn the ball over, we win, just like in the Cheifs game....

Atwater His Ass · 10-12-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp

We don't have a great pass rush, but it is one area where we are merely average. I agree that the achilles heel of this defense is the safeties. I can't believe that an ageing John Lynch would not have been better than at least one of these shmucks we line up every Sunday.

Any defense can use an extra pass rusher and I'm sure we'll be looking out for one, but I have to say that if we go safety at #1 and maybe #3 and #4 as well for good measure i won't be complaining.

For the rest of this season though, we're still on course for something like 10-6 which this year will be good enough for the division, so I think maybe a playoff win at home followed by an exit on the road will be the limit of what we can expect.

The story of today's game, however, was turnovers. If this offense doesn't turn the ball over, we win, just like in the Cheifs game....

Wow really? You think S will have a bigger impact on improving this defense then DL?

watermock · 10-12-2008, 11:52 PM

I saw those 2 clowns run into each other today on a TD pass and as they lay there injured, I actuallly thought, "good riddance".

fontaine · 10-13-2008, 12:34 AM

These guys are clueless.

I would understand if they were up against Shannon Sharpe but they were realmed but some guy named Estrada who is a nobody and Marcedes Lewis who's nothing special. Both of these guys got torched.

McCree was late coming into the box for run support and in coverage he was awful.

It was like watching a house of cards fall apart.

Late in the third Garard completes a 26 yard passes on McCree to some nobody. The next play McCree takes an awful angle and can't make the tackle on a midget mojo who runs 47 yards for the TD.

Few minutes later a long throw to Lewis goes for a TD when both safeties were deep but McCree takes out Manual who was going to make the tackle on the TE. It just kept getting worse and worse.

Oh and somewhere in there when McCree does make a stop near the line of scrimmage he jumps around waving his arms and thumping his chest as if he's just won the game all by himself.

Kaylore · 10-13-2008, 05:23 AM

This is why I love the mane. For all of the "Jay Cutler needs to be traded" threads there are some threads that identify the real problem. McCree is average. He can tackle ok so in run support he's better than nothing but in coverage he's pretty average. Manuel is football stupid. He constantly lines up wrong. If you watch games, the other DB's are constantly correcting his alignment pre-snap. He rarely knows what his assignment is on every play.

Bottom line is they went after our safeties pretty bad yesterday. It's a weakness that won't get corrected until the draft.

TonyR · 10-13-2008, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

For all of the "Jay Cutler needs to be traded" threads there are some threads that identify the real problem.

You don't think averaging 17.33 points the last 3 weeks is a real problem?

TonyR · 10-13-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisp

We don't have a great pass rush, but it is one area where we are merely average.

We are far below average in this area. If we were average we would be okay.

kappys · 10-13-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atwater His Ass

Wow really? You think S will have a bigger impact on improving this defense then DL?

The problem is that our D-line at least has some average players on it (Peterson, Thomas, Doom, Ekuban, Robertson). Some of those guys are even competing for the label of good.

Our safeties are just terrible - so in terms of upgrading the overall talent on the D that is the easiest place to start.

Obviously getting a top notch DE would have more impact - that's why those guys make the big bucks; but we are in even more desparate need of a safety upgrade.

Kaylore · 10-13-2008, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TonyR

You don't think averaging 17.33 points the last 3 weeks is a real problem?

By the second quarter we were missing: Scheffler, Stokely, Royal and Selvin Young. You don't think that's going to make your offense more inept? No, maybe you're right. Maybe we should trade Jay Cutler for Ed Reed.

montrose · 10-13-2008, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

This is why I love the mane. For all of the "Jay Cutler needs to be traded" threads there are some threads that identify the real problem. McCree is average. He can tackle ok so in run support he's better than nothing but in coverage he's pretty average. Manuel is football stupid. He constantly lines up wrong. If you watch games, the other DB's are constantly correcting his alignment pre-snap. He rarely knows what his assignment is on every play.

Bottom line is they went after our safeties pretty bad yesterday. It's a weakness that won't get corrected until the draft.

I was at the game yesterday and when I saw Manual lined up in single man on their split-wide man - I knew, absolutely knew that's where they were going with the football. Sure enough that was the questionable PA call, but its certainly showing that team's are going to attack our safeties over and over again. Bly gave up a few passes but made his share of defenses as well. Teams aren't even going to look at Champ when you've got those sh***y safeties in the middle.

socalorado · 10-13-2008, 05:41 AM

The only option for upgrading the safety position as of right now would be to trade for one. And there is only one team that would really be in a position to do that
STL RAMS
Atogwe, OJ
Free Safety
5-11
210
6 /23/81
Stanford

TRANSACTIONS:
• 4/23/05 – selected by St. Louis in the third round (66th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft.

PRO: Has played in 44 games and collected 190 tackles (134 solo), 2.0 sacks, 12 interceptions,
14 passes defensed, seven forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries.

2007 SEASON: Experienced best season in the NFL…started all 16 games…led the team with
eight interceptions, most in the NFC (second in the NFL)…made interceptions in four consecutive
games, first Ram to do so since Anthony Newman made four picks from 1991-92…eight interceptions
most on team since LB Dexter McCleon had eight in 2000…finished third on the team
with career-high 94 tackles (69 solo)…two forced fumbles tied for second-most on the team.
• Led the team with 10 tackles (nine solo) in season opener vs. Carolina 9/9.
• Named Rams Defensive Player of the Game after making six tackles (five solo), one forced fumble
and one fumble recovery in Week 3 at Tampa Bay 9/23.
• Made first interception of the season in Week 4 at Dallas 9/30 and returned it 8 yards.
• Against Green Bay in Week 15 12/16, made two interceptions…with :23 remaining in the first
half, intercepted QB Brett Favre…recorded second interception of the game in the fourth quarter…
first multi-interception game of career.
• Recorded five tackles (four solo) and one interception in season finale at Arizona 12/30…picked
off QB Kurt Warner in the third quarter and returned it for a touchdown…first touchdown of
career.

2006 SEASON: Started all 16 games…finished third on the team in tackles and tied for first
in forced fumbles.
• Tied for team lead with a career-high nine tackles (five solo) vs. Denver 9/10.
• Caused two forced fumbles in consecutive games in Week 10 at Seattle 11/12 and in Week 11
at Carolina 11/19.
• Helped seal the game with a fourth quarter interception vs. San Francisco 11/26.
• Forced a fourth-quarter fumble vs. Washington 12/24 that helped send the game into overtime.

2005 SEASON: Played in 12 games.
• Made first career sack at Houston 11/27.
• Made first career interception in season finale at Dallas 1/1/06.

He would require DEN to pony up at least a 2nd rounder or multiple picks from the later rounds, like say both 5th rounders. Hes a very good FS, and would make an immediate impact considering hes only been in the NFL for a few years.
This is the only scenario other than letting Barrett and Woodyard play the safety positions.

10-12-2008, 09:40 PM	#11
SoCalBronco Nixonite Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 33,312 Adopt-a-Bronco: D.J. Williams	Rashad Johnson! __________________ ITS A PLAYOFF HOCKEY NIGHT IN PITTSBURGH!

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10-12-2008, 06:58 PM	#1
gyldenlove Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: London, ON Posts: 10,034 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	My kingdom for a safety Let me just say I am not panicking, I think we will still win the division and make it to the playoffs. We are a few adjustments away from being a good team over all, I think that will be enough to get us at least 1 game in the promised land. I look at the team and the way it is playing right now, and I see a major weakness. The play of our safeties, they provide no real safety net for our cornerbacks to play aggressively and consequently we have to give up a lot of ground and keep Champ from doing what he does best which is react to the QB and try to make big plays. Mccree seems to be constantly struggling with positioning, he is often out of position when he plays closer to the line and he fails to make plays on the outside where he should be. It is even worse when he drops back, on several long gains instead of stepping up and trying to stop the ball carrier he ends up running the same way as the carrier without putting any pressure on the ball. Manuel has been disappointing so far, he has been missing tackles close to the line and has been struggling mightily in pass coverage. His problem seems to stem more from bad fundamentals than a lack of game understanding though. Of the two, I think Manuel is the one who could be coached and schemed in such a way that his weaknesses aren't as exposed. With that being said, he is going to need a player with strong instincts next to him who can also cover a lot of real estate. I really think that we need to make S our number one priority for the offseason, we need a player who can make plays, who can cover the deep zone and allow us to play more aggressively, who knows when to move up so we don't have to double park a safety in the box on every play.

10-12-2008, 07:19 PM	#2
Goobzilla Lights Out B*h! BA-ZING!!** Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Wellington Posts: 6,526 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mitch Erickson	I can't believe that Manuel & McCree are better than Lynch & Abdullah.

10-12-2008, 07:20 PM	#3
kappys Ring of Famer “It will be of little avail to the Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,901	A very well thought out comment I must say. The deficiencies of our safeties were exposed today. The Jags more or less avoided Champ and Bly and focused on attacking the safeties - and did so very sucessfully. Of course that wouldn't be as big a problem if we had a pass rush... It'll come down to what's available in the offseason in terms of FA and the draft. There are enough holes on the defense that I think we should focus on taking the best avaible player with regards to any of them rather than targeting a specific problem (safety) to attack first.

10-12-2008, 07:39 PM	#4
McDman Ring of Famer Huzzah! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 3,699 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Eric Berry! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7Oj8wmRLQ

10-12-2008, 08:51 PM	#5
BroncoMan4ever Ring of Famer Here to chew bubblegum and kick ass Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 11,572 Adopt-a-Bronco: VIRGIL GREEN!!!	that is a well thought out comment on the status of our defense. but i am thinking pass rush is what the team needs most. I mean for example even if we had Bob Sanders and Troy Polomalu as our Safeties, with the amount of time opposing QB's have to pick our secondary apart, it wouldn't matter that we have pro bowl talent at the Safeties.

10-12-2008, 08:57 PM	#7
Atwater His Ass Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 5,362 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	We could get by with these safties if the QB dind't have 7 seconds to throw on every pass play.

10-12-2008, 09:00 PM	#8
SouthStndJunkie Ring of Famer Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 15,261	Missouri Safety William Moore:

10-12-2008, 09:07 PM	#9
McDman Ring of Famer Huzzah! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 3,699 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	NOOO we must have Berry! I'll call up Mike and tell him to take a look at him.

10-12-2008, 09:40 PM	#10
Dudeskey Ring of Famer This space for rent Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 4,314	And a 3 technique DT

10-12-2008, 09:43 PM	#12
SouthStndJunkie Ring of Famer Shannon Says: Listen to The Junkman Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 15,261	I also like safety Barry Church from Toledo, but this is his junior year. Not sure if he will declare for the draft. I think he would be a steal in the second round.

10-12-2008, 09:48 PM	#13
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,498	Broncos safety's are the worst the NFL has ever seen IMO.

10-12-2008, 10:11 PM	#14
Blart I'm gay for the Broncos! Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Francisco Posts: 2,588 Adopt-a-Bronco: All @ same time	They need to hold public tryouts for Safety. Denver is a big city, the Capital of the West, surely someone out there can wrap their arms around a runner's legs.

10-12-2008, 10:26 PM	#15
chrisp Friend of the unsung Not into the football......yet Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: London UK Posts: 1,300 Adopt-a-Bronco: Danny Trevathan	We don't have a great pass rush, but it is one area where we are merely average. I agree that the achilles heel of this defense is the safeties. I can't believe that an ageing John Lynch would not have been better than at least one of these shmucks we line up every Sunday. Any defense can use an extra pass rusher and I'm sure we'll be looking out for one, but I have to say that if we go safety at #1 and maybe #3 and #4 as well for good measure i won't be complaining. For the rest of this season though, we're still on course for something like 10-6 which this year will be good enough for the division, so I think maybe a playoff win at home followed by an exit on the road will be the limit of what we can expect. The story of today's game, however, was turnovers. If this offense doesn't turn the ball over, we win, just like in the Cheifs game....

10-12-2008, 11:52 PM	#17
watermock "Hoodie Jr" "Hug me!" Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Hot Springs, Ouachitah Posts: 77,090	I saw those 2 clowns run into each other today on a TD pass and as they lay there injured, I actuallly thought, "good riddance".

10-13-2008, 12:34 AM	#18
fontaine Ring of Famer Go John Manning! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,429	These guys are clueless. I would understand if they were up against Shannon Sharpe but they were realmed but some guy named Estrada who is a nobody and Marcedes Lewis who's nothing special. Both of these guys got torched. McCree was late coming into the box for run support and in coverage he was awful. It was like watching a house of cards fall apart. Late in the third Garard completes a 26 yard passes on McCree to some nobody. The next play McCree takes an awful angle and can't make the tackle on a midget mojo who runs 47 yards for the TD. Few minutes later a long throw to Lewis goes for a TD when both safeties were deep but McCree takes out Manual who was going to make the tackle on the TE. It just kept getting worse and worse. Oh and somewhere in there when McCree does make a stop near the line of scrimmage he jumps around waving his arms and thumping his chest as if he's just won the game all by himself.

10-13-2008, 05:23 AM	#19
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,061 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	This is why I love the mane. For all of the "Jay Cutler needs to be traded" threads there are some threads that identify the real problem. McCree is average. He can tackle ok so in run support he's better than nothing but in coverage he's pretty average. Manuel is football stupid. He constantly lines up wrong. If you watch games, the other DB's are constantly correcting his alignment pre-snap. He rarely knows what his assignment is on every play. Bottom line is they went after our safeties pretty bad yesterday. It's a weakness that won't get corrected until the draft.

10-13-2008, 05:41 AM	#25
socalorado Ring of Famer Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5,212	The only option for upgrading the safety position as of right now would be to trade for one. And there is only one team that would really be in a position to do that STL RAMS Atogwe, OJ Free Safety 5-11 210 6 /23/81 Stanford TRANSACTIONS: • 4/23/05 – selected by St. Louis in the third round (66th overall) of the 2005 NFL Draft. PRO: Has played in 44 games and collected 190 tackles (134 solo), 2.0 sacks, 12 interceptions, 14 passes defensed, seven forced fumbles and three fumble recoveries. 2007 SEASON: Experienced best season in the NFL…started all 16 games…led the team with eight interceptions, most in the NFC (second in the NFL)…made interceptions in four consecutive games, first Ram to do so since Anthony Newman made four picks from 1991-92…eight interceptions most on team since LB Dexter McCleon had eight in 2000…finished third on the team with career-high 94 tackles (69 solo)…two forced fumbles tied for second-most on the team. • Led the team with 10 tackles (nine solo) in season opener vs. Carolina 9/9. • Named Rams Defensive Player of the Game after making six tackles (five solo), one forced fumble and one fumble recovery in Week 3 at Tampa Bay 9/23. • Made first interception of the season in Week 4 at Dallas 9/30 and returned it 8 yards. • Against Green Bay in Week 15 12/16, made two interceptions…with :23 remaining in the first half, intercepted QB Brett Favre…recorded second interception of the game in the fourth quarter… first multi-interception game of career. • Recorded five tackles (four solo) and one interception in season finale at Arizona 12/30…picked off QB Kurt Warner in the third quarter and returned it for a touchdown…first touchdown of career. 2006 SEASON: Started all 16 games…finished third on the team in tackles and tied for first in forced fumbles. • Tied for team lead with a career-high nine tackles (five solo) vs. Denver 9/10. • Caused two forced fumbles in consecutive games in Week 10 at Seattle 11/12 and in Week 11 at Carolina 11/19. • Helped seal the game with a fourth quarter interception vs. San Francisco 11/26. • Forced a fourth-quarter fumble vs. Washington 12/24 that helped send the game into overtime. 2005 SEASON: Played in 12 games. • Made first career sack at Houston 11/27. • Made first career interception in season finale at Dallas 1/1/06. He would require DEN to pony up at least a 2nd rounder or multiple picks from the later rounds, like say both 5th rounders. Hes a very good FS, and would make an immediate impact considering hes only been in the NFL for a few years. This is the only scenario other than letting Barrett and Woodyard play the safety positions.