European meltdown begins - The Orange Mane

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 10:37 AM

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

Baja better start changing those Euros to seeds pretty quick!

I'm going to save the mane some bandwidth. LABF "It's all Bush's fault!".

Oct 6, 11:52 AM EDT

Europe governments strive to avoid bank meltdown

European central banks offer more cash to markets

LONDON (AP) -- European governments struggled to find a coordinated response to the crisis sweeping financial markets Monday, as countries one after the other announced sweeping deposit guarantees on their own to try and shore up their banks. Stock markets plunged.

Iceland and Denmark became the latest countries to declare a deposit guarantee Monday after a startling announcement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday that her government would guarantee all private bank savings and CDs held in the euro zone's largest economy. "We want to tell people that their savings are safe," she said.

Faltering confidence in the financial system, undermined by a series of bank bailouts, was precipitating the measures, analysts said, since a failure to match guarantees by Ireland, France, Greece and Sweden could risk a massive fund outflow. Yet the guarantees themselves raised questions about their potential impact on government finances, and showed European governments were unable to find a unified approach despite a weekend summit where they agreed to do just that.

"Governments have no choice but to give the guarantees on deposits, otherwise we will see runs on banks and a complete loss of business and consumer confidence," said Neil Mackinnon, chief economist at ECU Group.

"The stakes have never been higher," he added.

Markets responded to the disarray by sinking rapidly, following selloffs in Asia. Russia shut down both its stock markets after they fell more than 15 percent. Germany's DAX was down 428.04, or 7.4 percent, at 5,368.99, while France's CAC-40 was 350.74 points, or 8.9 percent, lower at 3,730.01. The CAC's fall in afternoon trading exceeded the record one-day decline of 7.39 percent from Sept. 11, 2001.

The FTSE 100 index of leading British shares was down 269.30 points, or 5.5 percent, at 4,601.04.

Wall Street took its cue from Europe, with the Dow Jones industrials down 430.81 points, or 4.2 percent at 9,907.55 amid growing fears that the credit crisis is spreading around the world.

Meanwhile, the euro slid below the $1.36 mark for the first time in over a year.

The crisis engulfing Europe and its markets has fueled talk of coordinated interest-rate cuts by the world's leading central banks, possibly as early as Monday.

Analysts said they wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the Bank of England instigate the first joint action on interest rates since the September 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S.

"I think we will see interest-rate cuts this week," said ECU Group's Mackinnon.

So far, the banks have continued to flood the money markets with additional liquidity. On Monday, the ECB injected another $50 billion into money markets while the BoE added another $10 billion. The Swedish Central Bank increased its lending to 100 billion kronor ($14.2 billion).

Additionally, the Fed said that 28-day and 84-day cash loans being made available to banks will be boosted to $150 billion each, effective Monday. Those increases will eventually bring the amounts outstanding under the program to $600 billion.

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown planned a call to Merkel to discuss the crisis, and Britain's Treasury chief, Alistair Darling, was due to make a statement to Parliament later. So far, Britain has raised its deposit guarantee only to 50,000 pounds ($87,900), but was under pressure to guarantee all deposits.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy spoke by telephone in the morning with Brown, ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and was due to speak to Merkel later too.

"We need a coordinated response," Sarkozy said during a visit to a Renault car plant in Normandy. Meanwhile European Union finance ministers were set to begin two days of talks on the crisis in Luxembourg.

"This is a very serious situation and one that needs to be addressed," said EU spokesman Johannes Laitenberger.

"Obviously there is a great effort under way. Nobody is suggesting that this is business as usual, but it's true that there is not one single magic bullet that will solve this."

The renewed effort to coordinate a response came after the weekend commitment by Europe's four leading economic powers - Germany, France, Britain and Italy - to work together. That commitment fell apart on Sunday when Merkel announced that all 568 billion euros ($786 billion) worth of private deposits held in Germany would be guaranteed, alongside a new 50 billion euros ($69 billion) bailout package for Hypo Real Estate AG, Germany's second-biggest mortgage lender.

"The EU is liable to be exposed as a fair weather construction, lacking the means of swift response and the hold over its citizens' loyalties to survive really adverse conditions," said Stephen Lewis, an analyst at Monument Securities.

In a joint statement Monday, Merkel and Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck said the guarantee was "an important step at the right moment."

In response to the German move, the Danish Economy Ministry said commercial lenders had agreed to contribute up to 35 billion kroner, or about $6.4 billion over two years to a fund that will help insure account holders from losses. Austrian officials have indicated they might join in as well.

That was followed this afternoon by Iceland's guarantee of all deposits after trading was halted in six bank stocks. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week.

The markets are skeptical that Europe's piecemeal response to the crisis so far will work to stem the selling tide.

"The main problem for Europe is that a coordinated response has proved impossible to reach, and the case-by-case approach that has so far been applied has clearly failed to restore confidence," said Dragana Ignjatovic, European analyst at Global Insight.

Meanwhile, Iceland halted trading in six bank stocks while the government drafted a crisis plan. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week.

Rohirrim · 10-06-2008, 10:40 AM

I guess the European "Union" isn't much of a union after all.

SJ Bronco · 10-06-2008, 10:41 AM

I knew this would happen. The old saying is still true for Europe at least. How goes the US economy, goes the world.

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 10:49 AM

I'm certainly not going to predict a bottom but at some point there are going to be some real buying opportunities. Baja thinks we should be buying hand tools. I'm thinking I have enough of those.

I'm getting ready to dollar cost average some of my old favorite stocks over the next year or so.

kappys · 10-06-2008, 10:50 AM

The market that intrests me the most right now is India. They don't have as many export driven liabilities as China, and have continued to grow at a healthy tick. If European and US markets continue to falter, I think China will start to hurt as will the Middle East due to decreasing oil consumption and likely oil prices as well. India stands to benefit from this.

My money is out of the market at the moment, but I'm thinking of getting an India fund.

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kappys

If European and US markets continue to falter, I think China will start to hurt as will the Middle East due to decreasing oil consumption and likely oil prices as well.

There is no doubt China will feel it. I went to a Super Walmart for the first time in about 6 months. I've never seen so many people starring at the price tags of products, putting them back on the shelves and simply walking away without putting that product in their basket.

Provided we don't get rocked by a terrorist attack at the turn of the election I'm thinking there will be a nice little Obama bounce in the market but it's too early to say. It would not surprise me in the least to see a real world wide shake up in the near future. I'm not talking banks failing either. It just seems to me that it's been too long since we've heard from our friends over seas.

baja · 10-06-2008, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77

I'm certainly not going to predict a bottom but at some point there are going to be some real buying opportunities. Baja thinks we should be buying hand tools. I'm thinking I have enough of those.

I'm getting ready to dollar cost average some of my old favorite stocks over the next year or so.

Thought you were waiting on the sidelines to buy up peoples tragic real estate loses with your baskets of dollars. What I will enjoy in all this mess is when guys like you wake one morning to the news that your dollars arent worth the paper they are printed on. Then your smugness will leave you like a mud facial in a rain storm.

baja · 10-06-2008, 11:05 AM

I have been talking to shop owners in Venice all day today and their business is off about 60%

baja · 10-06-2008, 11:06 AM

Some real deals to be had on hand blown glass art

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

Thought you were waiting on the sidelines to buy up peoples tragic real estate loses with your baskets of dollars. What I will enjoy in all this mess is when guys like you wake one morning to the news that your dollars arent worth the paper they are printed on. Then your smugness will leave you like a mud facial in a rain storm.

I may buy some more real estate in due time. Have you slashed the price of your condo down in Mexico to 15k yet? If so I'll cut you a check in Euros or Gold. I also have 19 goats and a bunch of shovels if you prefer?

baja · 10-06-2008, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77

I may buy some more real estate in due time. Have you slashed the price of your condo down in Mexico to 15k yet? If so I'll cut you a check in Euros or Gold. I also have 19 goats and a bunch of shovels if you prefer?

Are they nannys or billys

alkemical · 10-06-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

Are they nannys or billys

Doesn't matter, they are all gruff

Rohirrim · 10-06-2008, 11:29 AM

Hey, Baja. Do you think you should be in Europe while all those Muslim immigrants are losing their jobs? It won't be pretty.

baja · 10-06-2008, 11:33 AM

Fuuun um Im Mexican just ask Meck

MplsBronco · 10-06-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

I have been talking to shop owners in Venice all day today and their business is off about 60%

Do you live in Venice? I was just there for the first time about 8 months ago. Awesome place.

baja · 10-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MplsBronco

Do you live in Venice? I was just there for the first time about 8 months ago. Awesome place.

No just visiting and I agree a very awesome place. Worlds oldest best and largest shoping mall

I could live here if the world were not in a melt down, so much culture

alkemical · 10-06-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

Fuuun um Im Mexican just ask Meck

lol

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

Are they nannys or billys

Nannys, billys, minnies, big fat meat goats take your pick!

Just one billy and probably 3 or 4 nannys and you'd never need to worry about meat again provided you had the pasture for them. A healthy nanny aka Doe can easily produce triplets almost twice a year. It's amazing how fast they grow.

Mexicans love goat tacos. Ooops did I just use that evil word "mexican" again.

BTW you lurkers my girlfriend is a Mexican so hold that race card for someone else.

baja · 10-06-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77

Nannys, billys, minnies, big fat meat goats take your pick!

Just one billy and probably 3 or 4 nannys and you'd never need to worry about meat again provided you had the pasture for them. A healthy nanny aka Doe can easily produce triplets almost twice a year. It's amazing how fast they grow.

Mexicans love goat tacos. Ooops did I just use that evil word "mexican" again.

Your gril friend that you say is part Mexican.... Which part?

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja

Your gril friend that you say is part Mexican.... Which part?

In all the right places.

Rohirrim · 10-06-2008, 12:03 PM

I love lamb and mint jelly. What's goat taste like?

Meck77 · 10-06-2008, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I love lamb and mint jelly. What's goat taste like?

If you like lamb you'd like goat. It's less grease and has less fat. That is how everyone I know describes it including these guys.

http://www.devongoat.co.uk/ourmeat.html

alkemical · 10-06-2008, 12:20 PM

What about this goat:

alkemical · 10-06-2008, 12:48 PM

http://cryptogon.com/?p=4348

Russian Stocks Plunge by Nearly 20 Per Cent, Worst Daily Loss Ever
October 6th, 2008

Via: The Canadian Press:

Russia’s benchmark stock exchange suffered its biggest-ever one-day loss as shares went into free fall on the back of falling oil prices and deepening fears about the global economy despite the passage of a US$700 billion U.S. bank bailout.

Trading on MICEX - the country’s largest index - was shut down three times, closing down 18.6 per cent to 752 points. The benchmark RTS - where trading was halted twice - crashed to its lowest point since August 2005, falling by 19.1 per cent to 866.4 points. It is the most the RTS has fallen in one day.

alkemical · 10-06-2008, 12:49 PM

http://cryptogon.com/?p=4346

Germany to Allow Domestic Military Deployment
October 6th, 2008

Via: AP:

Germany’s governing coalition partners want to change the constitution to allow for military deployment within the country if needed to combat terrorism, officials said Monday.

The proposal would allow use of the military only if police are overwhelmed and cannot properly respond to a situation themselves.

“It is not to be used generally, but only in very specific cases,” Interior Ministry spokeswoman Daniela-Alexandra Pietsch said.

The center-left Social Democratic Party — which makes up half of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition — had been opposed to the proposal but agreed late Sunday after working out an agreement that includes strict guidelines for domestic deployment.

“We’re talking only about emergency help,” Social Democrat parliamentary leader Peter Struck said. For example, the navy could be called to help in a situation where police maritime patrols were not sufficient, he said.

The proposal will now go to Merkel’s Cabinet and then to parliament for approval.

Given Germany’s militaristic past, many are hesitant to expand the role of soldiers domestically. Currently, the German military can be deployed within the country only in times of war, or to help with emergencies or natural disasters.

Following the announcement of the new proposal, opposition Left Party lawmaker Petra Pau accused the government of seeking to violate a constitutionally dictated division “between army, police and secret services.”

“The military has no role domestically for historic, political, legal and professional reasons,” Pau said.

Germany used Tornado fighter jets to secure airspace during last year’s Group of Eight summit, while troops helped provide support to police controlling demonstrations.

Merkel’s government at the time defended the deployment as necessary to secure the area and provide technical and logistical support for police. But the opposition Greens party criticized it as “a creeping breach of the constitution.”

10-06-2008, 10:37 AM	#1
Meck77 Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,324	European meltdown begins http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT Baja better start changing those Euros to seeds pretty quick! I'm going to save the mane some bandwidth. LABF "It's all Bush's fault!". Oct 6, 11:52 AM EDT Europe governments strive to avoid bank meltdown European central banks offer more cash to markets LONDON (AP) -- European governments struggled to find a coordinated response to the crisis sweeping financial markets Monday, as countries one after the other announced sweeping deposit guarantees on their own to try and shore up their banks. Stock markets plunged. Iceland and Denmark became the latest countries to declare a deposit guarantee Monday after a startling announcement by German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Sunday that her government would guarantee all private bank savings and CDs held in the euro zone's largest economy. "We want to tell people that their savings are safe," she said. Faltering confidence in the financial system, undermined by a series of bank bailouts, was precipitating the measures, analysts said, since a failure to match guarantees by Ireland, France, Greece and Sweden could risk a massive fund outflow. Yet the guarantees themselves raised questions about their potential impact on government finances, and showed European governments were unable to find a unified approach despite a weekend summit where they agreed to do just that. "Governments have no choice but to give the guarantees on deposits, otherwise we will see runs on banks and a complete loss of business and consumer confidence," said Neil Mackinnon, chief economist at ECU Group. "The stakes have never been higher," he added. Markets responded to the disarray by sinking rapidly, following selloffs in Asia. Russia shut down both its stock markets after they fell more than 15 percent. Germany's DAX was down 428.04, or 7.4 percent, at 5,368.99, while France's CAC-40 was 350.74 points, or 8.9 percent, lower at 3,730.01. The CAC's fall in afternoon trading exceeded the record one-day decline of 7.39 percent from Sept. 11, 2001. The FTSE 100 index of leading British shares was down 269.30 points, or 5.5 percent, at 4,601.04. Wall Street took its cue from Europe, with the Dow Jones industrials down 430.81 points, or 4.2 percent at 9,907.55 amid growing fears that the credit crisis is spreading around the world. Meanwhile, the euro slid below the $1.36 mark for the first time in over a year. The crisis engulfing Europe and its markets has fueled talk of coordinated interest-rate cuts by the world's leading central banks, possibly as early as Monday. Analysts said they wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. Federal Reserve, the European Central Bank and the Bank of England instigate the first joint action on interest rates since the September 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S. "I think we will see interest-rate cuts this week," said ECU Group's Mackinnon. So far, the banks have continued to flood the money markets with additional liquidity. On Monday, the ECB injected another $50 billion into money markets while the BoE added another $10 billion. The Swedish Central Bank increased its lending to 100 billion kronor ($14.2 billion). Additionally, the Fed said that 28-day and 84-day cash loans being made available to banks will be boosted to $150 billion each, effective Monday. Those increases will eventually bring the amounts outstanding under the program to $600 billion. British Prime Minister Gordon Brown planned a call to Merkel to discuss the crisis, and Britain's Treasury chief, Alistair Darling, was due to make a statement to Parliament later. So far, Britain has raised its deposit guarantee only to 50,000 pounds ($87,900), but was under pressure to guarantee all deposits. French President Nicolas Sarkozy spoke by telephone in the morning with Brown, ECB President Jean-Claude Trichet and European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso and was due to speak to Merkel later too. "We need a coordinated response," Sarkozy said during a visit to a Renault car plant in Normandy. Meanwhile European Union finance ministers were set to begin two days of talks on the crisis in Luxembourg. "This is a very serious situation and one that needs to be addressed," said EU spokesman Johannes Laitenberger. "Obviously there is a great effort under way. Nobody is suggesting that this is business as usual, but it's true that there is not one single magic bullet that will solve this." The renewed effort to coordinate a response came after the weekend commitment by Europe's four leading economic powers - Germany, France, Britain and Italy - to work together. That commitment fell apart on Sunday when Merkel announced that all 568 billion euros ($786 billion) worth of private deposits held in Germany would be guaranteed, alongside a new 50 billion euros ($69 billion) bailout package for Hypo Real Estate AG, Germany's second-biggest mortgage lender. "The EU is liable to be exposed as a fair weather construction, lacking the means of swift response and the hold over its citizens' loyalties to survive really adverse conditions," said Stephen Lewis, an analyst at Monument Securities. In a joint statement Monday, Merkel and Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck said the guarantee was "an important step at the right moment." In response to the German move, the Danish Economy Ministry said commercial lenders had agreed to contribute up to 35 billion kroner, or about $6.4 billion over two years to a fund that will help insure account holders from losses. Austrian officials have indicated they might join in as well. That was followed this afternoon by Iceland's guarantee of all deposits after trading was halted in six bank stocks. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week. The markets are skeptical that Europe's piecemeal response to the crisis so far will work to stem the selling tide. "The main problem for Europe is that a coordinated response has proved impossible to reach, and the case-by-case approach that has so far been applied has clearly failed to restore confidence," said Dragana Ignjatovic, European analyst at Global Insight. Meanwhile, Iceland halted trading in six bank stocks while the government drafted a crisis plan. Icelandic banks' assets dwarfs the rest of its economy and its currency has fallen sharply in the past week. Last edited by Meck77; 10-06-2008 at 10:39 AM..

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10-06-2008, 10:40 AM	#2
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,109	I guess the European "Union" isn't much of a union after all.

10-06-2008, 10:41 AM	#3
SJ Bronco Ring of Famer Real Tree, No Seeds Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose Ca Posts: 9,798 Adopt-a-Bronco: John Elway	I knew this would happen. The old saying is still true for Europe at least. How goes the US economy, goes the world.

10-06-2008, 10:49 AM	#4
Meck77 Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,324	I'm certainly not going to predict a bottom but at some point there are going to be some real buying opportunities. Baja thinks we should be buying hand tools. I'm thinking I have enough of those. I'm getting ready to dollar cost average some of my old favorite stocks over the next year or so.

10-06-2008, 10:50 AM	#5
kappys Ring of Famer “It will be of little avail to the Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 3,928	The market that intrests me the most right now is India. They don't have as many export driven liabilities as China, and have continued to grow at a healthy tick. If European and US markets continue to falter, I think China will start to hurt as will the Middle East due to decreasing oil consumption and likely oil prices as well. India stands to benefit from this. My money is out of the market at the moment, but I'm thinking of getting an India fund.

10-06-2008, 11:05 AM	#8
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in a bunker Posts: 54,381 Adopt-a-Bronco: Julius Thomas	I have been talking to shop owners in Venice all day today and their business is off about 60%

10-06-2008, 11:06 AM	#9
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in a bunker Posts: 54,381 Adopt-a-Bronco: Julius Thomas	Some real deals to be had on hand blown glass art

10-06-2008, 11:29 AM	#13
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,109	Hey, Baja. Do you think you should be in Europe while all those Muslim immigrants are losing their jobs? It won't be pretty.

10-06-2008, 11:33 AM	#14
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: in a bunker Posts: 54,381 Adopt-a-Bronco: Julius Thomas	Fuuun um Im Mexican just ask Meck

10-06-2008, 12:03 PM	#21
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 49,109	I love lamb and mint jelly. What's goat taste like?

10-06-2008, 12:20 PM	#23
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	What about this goat:

10-06-2008, 12:48 PM	#24
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	http://cryptogon.com/?p=4348 Russian Stocks Plunge by Nearly 20 Per Cent, Worst Daily Loss Ever October 6th, 2008 Via: The Canadian Press: Russia’s benchmark stock exchange suffered its biggest-ever one-day loss as shares went into free fall on the back of falling oil prices and deepening fears about the global economy despite the passage of a US$700 billion U.S. bank bailout. Trading on MICEX - the country’s largest index - was shut down three times, closing down 18.6 per cent to 752 points. The benchmark RTS - where trading was halted twice - crashed to its lowest point since August 2005, falling by 19.1 per cent to 866.4 points. It is the most the RTS has fallen in one day.

10-06-2008, 12:49 PM	#25
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	http://cryptogon.com/?p=4346 Germany to Allow Domestic Military Deployment October 6th, 2008 Via: AP: Germany’s governing coalition partners want to change the constitution to allow for military deployment within the country if needed to combat terrorism, officials said Monday. The proposal would allow use of the military only if police are overwhelmed and cannot properly respond to a situation themselves. “It is not to be used generally, but only in very specific cases,” Interior Ministry spokeswoman Daniela-Alexandra Pietsch said. The center-left Social Democratic Party — which makes up half of Chancellor Angela Merkel’s coalition — had been opposed to the proposal but agreed late Sunday after working out an agreement that includes strict guidelines for domestic deployment. “We’re talking only about emergency help,” Social Democrat parliamentary leader Peter Struck said. For example, the navy could be called to help in a situation where police maritime patrols were not sufficient, he said. The proposal will now go to Merkel’s Cabinet and then to parliament for approval. Given Germany’s militaristic past, many are hesitant to expand the role of soldiers domestically. Currently, the German military can be deployed within the country only in times of war, or to help with emergencies or natural disasters. Following the announcement of the new proposal, opposition Left Party lawmaker Petra Pau accused the government of seeking to violate a constitutionally dictated division “between army, police and secret services.” “The military has no role domestically for historic, political, legal and professional reasons,” Pau said. Germany used Tornado fighter jets to secure airspace during last year’s Group of Eight summit, while troops helped provide support to police controlling demonstrations. Merkel’s government at the time defended the deployment as necessary to secure the area and provide technical and logistical support for police. But the opposition Greens party criticized it as “a creeping breach of the constitution.”