So now with some time to reflect was Biden a mistake?

[Bob]

Honest feelings please. I know he was chosen to bring experience in foreign policy which he has – I think he speaks well, and will hold his own in the debates. But at this point I can’t see how he was a great pick as VP. He is not an average guy that can bring in voters Obama didn’t already have – he is from a small state Delaware – so Obama would have got that East Coast state anyway. I don’t think that Hilary would have been someone that I would want to have around as the VP if I were him, but how many other women could he have brought on that would have helped him more demographically? Why not choose a swing state popular senator or governor? And lastly Biden has been identified at the third most liberal Senator and Obama the most liberal – so couldn’t have Obama chosen someone a tad more right of himself – from a tactical standpoint do you agree with any of these points?

[SonOfLe-loLang]

While i suppose hindsighti s always 20/20, Biden hasnt hurt obama one bit, i think will be good in the debates, and is still a solid choice.

[Mr.Meanie]

My opinion is that it probably wasn't smart as far as campaigning goes. He could have brought on the "popular" choice with Hillary, or a popular governor like Richardson...and the campaign might have done better.

But for actually being President and shoring up Obama's weaknesses in having experience in Washington and in foreign policy I think it was brilliant...and it really raised my estimation of Obama.

[BroncoInferno]

Obama could have made a sexier pick, but I don't think that's what he needed. The perception of him as "too green" meant he needed an experienced vet to counter that perception. He also need a meat and potatos guy who could appeal to working class voters. Biden is one of the poorest members of Senate and has a way a speaking that fits that bill. And, most importantly, Obama needed an attack dog who attacks with facts and not rhetoric, and again Biden fits the bill. Hillary and Bill probably would have been too distracting a presence. Also, I think Biden is the perfect guy to expose Palin. The hooneymoon will be over once Biden gets hold of her in a debate. Far more experienced politicians than Palin have been made an utter fool of by Joe.

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Yeah, i dont think you can blame the current obsession with Palin (for good and bad) on Biden.

[BroncoBuff]

Hillary would have been the correct choice - much as with JFK and LBJ in 1960 - but no regrets with Biden for me. I am, however, already regretting responding to your thread, as all your posts are pointlessly partisan and divisive.

[Dudeskey]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Hillary would have been the correct choice - much as with JFK and LBJ in 1960 - but no regrets with Biden for me. I am, however, already regretting responding to your thread, as all your posts are pointlessly partisan and divisive.

My feelings exactly when you reference JFK & LBJ...™

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Hillary would have been the correct choice - much as with JFK and LBJ in 1960 - but no regrets with Biden for me. I am, however, already regretting responding to your thread, as all your posts are pointlessly partisan and divisive.

Hillary would have solidified the base, but the risks with independents was too great. She is too devisive a figure. I was having dinner with my cousin last night (a two-time Bush voter) who is strongly considering voting for Obama. He said that had he chosen Hillary for the ticket he would have had no shot at his vote. I know a lot of people who feel that way (unfortunately).

[Smiling Assassin27]

Biden certainly seems to think so. Man, this guy is a walking, talking idiot-box. Nothing like telling America that the judgment of your running mate is sub-par by claiming that the only choice he's had to make in this race so far was a mistake. Biden has buyer's remorse. He told us that Obama wasn't qualified when he was running for President and he's backed it up with this statement and is looking for a way to pull the chute and land safely in his cushy Senate chamber again.

Joe Biden: The Obamanation's version of Lane Kiffin

Biden adds nothing to the ticket.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

Biden certainly seems to think so. Man, this guy is a walking, talking idiot-box. Nothing like telling America that the judgment of your running mate is sub-par by claiming that the only choice he's had to make in this race so far was a mistake.

I see from this and your sig that you bought the lie that Biden wishes he hadn't run for VP. Someone in the crowd made a critical comment about Hillary--saying it was a good thing Obama picked him instead of her--and he took up for her by paying a compliment to someone he considers a friend. But go ahead and slurp up those right wing spin jobs if it makes you feel better.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

I see from this and your sig that you bought the lie that Biden wishes he hadn't run for VP. Someone in the crowd made a critical comment about Hillary--saying it was a good thing Obama picked him instead of her--and he took up for her by paying a compliment to someone he considers a friend. But go ahead and slurp up those right wing spin jobs if it makes you feel better.

So its a lie!?!?
See this is what so bad about making these random comments. After a political running mate says them, they have to go into "damage control" to try and fix it.
Now like you are doing, the DEMS have to try and spin the comments to try and save face.
What do we have, like 50 days till election day?
Dumb move by Biden. He should have known better.

The Consequences of Rejecting Hillary
Did Obama pick the wrong person to be his running mate?
by Fred Barnes
09/10/2008 7:30:00 PM

IT'S WIDELY ACCEPTED now that Barack Obama would be better off if he'd picked Hillary Clinton as his vice presidential running mate instead of Joe Biden. Obama had his reasons, particularly his discomfort with her as his actual vice president if he's elected. Still, Obama sacrificed a stronger ticket by rejecting Clinton.

Absent Hillary, the contest between Obama-Biden and the Republican ticket of John McCain and Sarah Palin is throwing the Democrats into disarray. The consequences of Obama's veep decision appear mostly to favor McCain. And if Obama had picked Hillary? Here are a few of the differences.

No Palin. Okay, McCain might have picked her anyway. He was looking for a running mate who would help him shake up the campaign. And Palin has delivered spectacularly on that. But choosing her would have seemed far less of a game-changer had Obama picked Clinton. Palin would have been merely the second female running mate in 2008. And her appeal to those who had voted for Clinton in the primaries would have been reduced if not nullified altogether.

As a result, the prospects of the other potential game-changers McCain was considering--Democratic senator Joe Lieberman and pro-choice ex-Pennsylvania governor Tom Ridge--would surely have risen. And while it's unknowable whether McCain would have picked Palin if Obama had gone with Clinton, selecting Palin would have been a lot less likely.

No Biden. He's not an albatross, but he certainly hasn't given Obama a boost. He has brought no balance to the ticket, not in regard to class, gender, ideology, or anything except longevity in Washington. Worse, unlike Palin, he's generated no enthusiasm or excitement. Biden has little appeal to the working class voters, especially women, who swarmed to Clinton in the primaries. He lacks the populist streak that Clinton had fashioned for herself. Biden is simply a weaker running mate.

Party unity. Democrats have come together fairly well behind the Obama-Biden ticket--but not as well as they would have if Obama had chosen Clinton. We still hear from disgruntled Hillary backers. Reporters have discovered they're easy to find at McCain-Palin rallies. Polls can't tell us how many will ultimately vote for McCain and Palin. But a chunk of them will--perhaps a few million--which means that Democrats aren't as unified as they might have been.

Ohio and Pennsylvania. Republicans figured these states, notably Pennsylvania, were all but goners if Clinton won the Democratic nomination. Even as veep, she'd have had a favorable impact. When she was passed over by Obama, Republicans jumped for joy. Ohio, which a Republican presidential candidate has to win, now leans McCain. Pennsylvania, which is crucial to a Democratic candidate's chances, has become a ripe target of opportunity for McCain.

Arkansas. As a Southern state, Arkansas is inclined to vote Republican in presidential races unless there's a compelling reason not to. One of those reasons: a Clinton on the Democratic ticket. Without Clinton, Arkansas moves into the leaning (strongly) McCain camp.

Vice presidential debate. This is a no-brainer. Who would be the easier opponent for Palin to face in the nationally televised debate on October 2? Clinton or Biden? The tough woman or Senator Windbag? Biden will have to be on his best behavior and treat Palin gingerly. Clinton wouldn't have had to.

Continued here
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...5/545moqlh.asp

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by socalorado

So its a lie!?!?
See this is what so bad about making these random comments. After a political running mate says them, they have to go into "damage control" to try and fix it.
Now like you are doing, the DEMS have to try and spin the comments to try and save face.

Dude, do you honestly think from listening to the comments in full--including the comment he was responding to--that Biden's intent was to let the American people know he wishes he had not accepted the nomination? C'mon! Someone made a critical remark about Hillary. He tried to take up for her. That's what happened. Yes, the spin job from your boys is a lie because they know exactly what Biden's intent from the comment was (as does any rationally thinking person). This isn't quite as bad the "Obama called Palin a pig" lie, but it's still a lie when you present something to people in a way that you know to be false.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Dude, do you honestly think from listening to the comments in full--including the comment he was responding to--that Biden's intent was to let the American people know he wishes he had not accepted the nomination? C'mon! Someone made a critical remark about Hillary. He tried to take up for her. That's what happened. Yes, the spin job from your boys is a lie because they know exactly what Biden's intent from the comment was (as does any rationally thinking person). This isn't quite as bad the "Obama called Palin a pig" lie, but it's still a lie when you present something to people in a way that you know to be false.

Thats not the point.
The point is exactly what you are doing right now.
Damage Control. Explaining away what he "really meant".
trying to spin it back to what he was really saying. TIME spent trying to make things right, instead of discussing other topics.
As you say"my boys" (apparently) are doing a bang up job of taking away key votes in this election.
And the DEMS are doing everything they can to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.
I dont care about what joe REALLY said, but there are 18 million hillary freaks who REALLY, REALLY DO CARE what ol' JOE said!
Thats the point to if he was a good VP pick or not.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Thats not the point.
The point is exactly what you are doing right now.
Damage Control. Explaining away what he "really meant".
trying to spin it back to what he was really saying. TIME spent trying to make things right, instead of discussing other topics.
As you say"my boys" (apparently) are doing a bang up job of taking away key votes in this election.
And the DEMS are doing everything they can to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.
I dont care about what joe REALLY said, but there are 18 million hillary freaks who REALLY, REALLY DO CARE what ol' JOE said!
Thats the point to if he was a good VP pick or not.

Kerry tried to ignore these types of fallacious attacks in 2004 to his detriment. Unfortunately, these tactics work, and you have to come out and immediately set the record straight. Otherwise, people think, "Well, he hasn't bothered to respond, so there must be something to the claims." It's unfortunate, but that is how the game goes.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

Kerry tried to ignore these types of fallacious attacks in 2004 to his detriment. Unfortunately, these tactics work, and you have to come out and immediately set the record straight. Otherwise, people think, "Well, he hasn't bothered to respond, so there must be something to the claims." It's unfortunate, but that is how the game goes.

Exactly!
It ISNT FAIR! bro.
But thats how a side wins an election. PERIOD. end of story.

So biden, KNOWING THIS! should not even respond to anything anti-women. His staff should have got with him on this.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Exactly!
It ISNT FAIR! bro.
But thats how a side wins an election. PERIOD. end of story.

So biden, KNOWING THIS! should not even respond to anything anti-women. His staff should have got with him on this.

"Anti-women"? Biden's comment in question was pretty much the opposite of "anti-women"? Are you saying he should have not responded to the comment by the audience member? Great idea, then the right attacks him because his lack of response indicates his misogyny and belief that Hillary would not have made a good candidate.

[Bronco X]

Obama didn't select Biden to help him win the election. He was selected because Obama thought he met the qualifications for VP. I don't know if that should be regarded as a mistake. It's certainly more honorable than making a selection that has no other purpose than to lure voters.

But if the Palin malarkey in the end actually carries the GOP to a win in November, I suppose it would have to be regarded as a mistake. Ask me again after November 4th.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by BroncoInferno

"Anti-women"? Biden's comment in question was pretty much the opposite of "anti-women"? Are you saying he should have not responded to the comment by the audience member? Great idea, then the right attacks him because his lack of response indicates his misogyny and belief that Hillary would not have made a good candidate.

No no. I mean the comment about palin being a step backward for politics and america.
The comment about him not wanting to be VP, he should have applauded hillary, but not said what he said about her being more qualified, because it clearly gives her (hillary's) base a reason to get pissed. Eventhough he was supposedly appaluding her. it leaves the hillary crowd with a even worse taste in their mouth, and leaves the repubs an open wound to suddenly pour salt into.
Sorry, man. had to clarify.

[TheDave]

Biden was a solid pick... People need to quit listening to every right wing spin job. This is nothing... The Dems need to get back on their game of talking about the things americans care about and ignore Palins existance.

Publicity stunts don't work too well when no one is talking about them.

[Crushaholic]

Obama needed to pick someone like Biden to give him the infamous "gravitas". He did the right thing, just as McCain did the right thing by picking someone as young and dynamic as Palin.

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by TheDave

Biden was a solid pick... People need to quit listening to every right wing spin job. This is nothing... The Dems need to get back on their game of talking about the things americans care about and ignore Palins existance.

Publicity stunts don't work too well when no one is talking about them.

Your absolutely right, as i have been lamenting here for days.
Too bad Biden just cant seem to not tempt fate and make gaffes.

1st he says that women in politics is a step backwards for women. (in regards to palin being named VP for the repubs)
STRIKE 1!!! all the hillary supporters (18 million strong) jump off the couch and say huh!?!?!
2nd Biden says that hillary ( again cue the hillary supporters) is a great lady and all, and SHE would be a even BETTER candidate than himself!
(Hillary supporters, who are at home still licking their wounds jump off the couch and exclaim, "WTF!?!?! WHY THEN did obama NOT Select HER?!?!?! SO weve been getting played like a fiddle this whole time by the messiah!?!?! Oh i see how it is!!")
STRIKE 2!!

[TheDave]

Originally Posted by socalorado

Your absolutely right,

Thank you

[socalorado]

Originally Posted by TheDave

Thank you

SERENITY NOW!!!

SERENITY NOW!!
poor dave.

[Rohirrim]

After Monday's game some Broncos fans think we're going to win the SB. I say wait a few more games.

[mhgaffney]

As I said -- Biden is a loser and always has been.

He had to drop out of the 1988 presidential race -- when he admitted lying about his college record and also plagiarism while in law school.

He wasn't qualifed then -- so what makes the Dems think he is qualified now?

Gravitas?

You must be joking. Biden supported Bush's war -- and is a poster child for the US military - indusrial complex. Delaware is the home of Dow Chemical and other mega corporations that thrive on building weapons and war.

So much for Obama's call for change!

Obama's choice was a cruel betrayal of all the hopes people placed in him.

The only thing worse at this point is McCain.

Some choice! We are witnessing the terminal phase of the race to the bottom -- the ultimate dumbing down and crash of America.

G-d help us -- and the many victims we will probably drag down along with us.

MHG