Plummer content in his own private Idaho

[cutlerfan]

Originally Posted by tnedator

As I have tried to explain, you can't simply look at a stat here or a stat there, and use that as 'proof'.

First, you are using points given up, which is the stat in which the 2005 defense was ranked 3rd, but they were 15th (middle of the pack in yards given up). So, why was a middle of the pack defense 3rd best in points given up? That's the question you should be looking to answer, as well as honestly answering whether or not anyone would call a defense 15th in yards given up 'great'.

Ok, so let's look at why the team was mediocre in yards given up, but 3rd best in points allowed. I've already explained it, but we will dig in a little further.

As stated earlier, the offense was jumping out to early, first half (typically first quarter) leads, and forcing other teams into more one dimensional gameplans, as they gave up on the run to try and play catch up.

The Broncos offense in '05 was 7th in 1st downs per game, 7th in points scored per game and 5th in total yards. Unlike the defense, the offense was pretty consistent, right? But wait, the yards, points and first downs are only part of the story. The Broncos led the league in time of possession, meaning the '05 Broncs offense held on to the ball more minutes per game than any other team in the league (32:40).

Let's look a little closer. The 'great' '05 defense was 17th in the league in giving up 1st downs per game. So, the defense that had the benefit of the best TOP (time of possession), meaning they spent the least time on the field, was in the bottom half of the league in terms of first downs given up.

Break it down a little further. The 'great' '05 offense was 29th in passing defense, and 18th in yards given up per play (pass and rush).

Now, if we look at the one stat they were 'great' at, it was points. If you factor all the points per game to a common number of minutes on the field, meaning factor all defenses up or down to 30 minutes (a constant number of minutes on the field), then the Broncos fall to 10th in points allowed (since they benefited from spending the fewest minutes on the field per game at only 27:25).

How about 1st downs given up? When the 'great' '05 defense has their stats levelized with the rest of the NFL, then they fall to 29th in the league in first downs given up per 30 minutes on the field.

So, you cannot ignore the benefit that the defense received by the offense leading the league in time of possession, as well as the offense jumping out to early leads and forcing the opposing offenses into abandoning the running game.

The Broncos defense in '05 only faced 21.5 rushes per game, which was WAY below the league average. The next closest team faced 23.9 rushes per game, and 28 of the 31 other teams saw at least 25 rushes a game. The league average was 28 rushes a game.

I think it probably goes without saying the benefit a defense gains from knowing that early in the first half the opposing offense will be abandoning the running game. Clearly, the team can both blitz with more freedom, as well as drop more guys in coverage.

So, sorry for the long-winded post and for those unfamiliar with the maximum verbosity that is Tned, but this was the long way of backing up what I stated earlier. The '05 defense was by no means great, and hugely benefited by the offense jumping out to early leads.

I disagree and so does Shanny. If Jake was so good with this Championship defense then why did Mike draft a QB? If Jake was so good? Then how come he could not handle the pressure of Jay and lost his job??

It is like Favre losing his job to Rogers. If he was able to compete against Rogers for it.

Jay was a ROOKIE! Plummer was a 10 year Vet!

Explain that?

[Rausch 2.0]

The thread header says it all.

I can't improve upon it.

I can't insult anymore than was thrown down there.

I can't insinuate anmore than has been.

I guess there's always the off chance that Cutler goes into a dia-beatees coma and dreams of making sweet love to Eddy Mac by campfire...

[tnedator]

Originally Posted by cutlerfan

I disagree and so does Shanny. If Jake was so good with this Championship defense then why did Mike draft a QB? If Jake was so good? Then how come he could not handle the pressure of Jay and lost his job??

It is like Favre losing his job to Rogers. If he was able to compete against Rogers for it.

Jay was a ROOKIE! Plummer was a 10 year Vet!

Explain that?

Just showing that you referring to the '05 defense as championship or 'great', not to mention referring to them as the 3rd best defense in the league is VERY misleading.

As I have stated, I understand why Cutler, Clady, Marshal, Scheffler, etc. were drafted, not to mention why Foxworth, Darrent, Moss, Dumerville, Marcus Thomas, Crowder, etc. were drafted. The team wasn't good enough on either side of the ball to win it all.

However, trying to discount the impact the offense had on helping an average defense appear good in 'two' stat categories (yards per game and points), without factoring in the fact they were only on the field for about 10% less time (3 minutes) than the average NFL defense, and 6 minutes less than many defenses, due to the fast leads the offense was producing is either being blinded by your Cutler fanhood, or disingenuous. I'm guessing it is just that you are a big Cutler fan, and you think anything said positive about Jake or the '05 offense is somehow a slam on Jay. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Simply put, you and possibly a few other Denver fans are the only people in the world that would classify the '05 Denver defense as 'great' or 'championship caliber'. I am a big Cutler fan and think that in time (hopefully this year), the Broncos are going to get a return on that investment/change, but you can't deny the fact that Kubiak and Plummer produced far more than Dinger and Plummer/Cutler, which is undoubtedly why Shanahan's very good friend Heimerdinger is now gone.