A California school uses two QBs at once and makes everyone eligible

[TDmvp]

The offense of the future?


http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=825031

[Kaylore]

How are your "linemen" going to hear the snap count in loud away stadiums?

[Bladerunner]

it looks like an extreme version of the run and shoot to me, except with two qb's you have an option aspect as well, particularly the inside option...Mike Vick might have been pretty good at this...

it's definitely innovative...it's tough to call it he offense of the future until the defenses have a chance to adapt...once they do, it'll be interesting to see how it holds up

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by Bladerunner

it looks like an extreme version of the run and shoot to me, except with two qb's you have an option aspect as well, particularly the inside option...Mike Vick might have been pretty good at this...

it's definitely innovative...it's tough to call it he offense of the future until the defenses have a chance to adapt...once they do, it'll be interesting to see how it holds up

A disciplined zone team and four good linemen would destroy this.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

A disciplined zone team and four good linemen would destroy this.

How many teams at the HS level have one of those?

They are using it a majority of the time (60%) but they are still using a traditional formation 40%.

Creating confusion for defensive players at the HS level could be deadly.

Just think they line up traditionally then motion out, now a defenders mind is racing to figure out where he is, then the play happens before he is in position and the ball carrier makes one good cut on the D and he is gone...

I like it when people think outside the box. Time will tell if it works or if people adapt.

[broncosteven]

BTW Kahn,

Remember what Duh Bears did when they threw out the T formation vs Gints?

In a couple of years everyone was running it and it was no big deal.

[SassyBronxGirl]

What was that highly effective and now illegal formation that used to be run in college in the 1920's? I remember hearing that players were getting very seriously hurt from it.

[SassyBronxGirl]

Never mind, I found it. It was called the flying wedge formation.

"During kickoff plays, teams made use of a loophole in the old rule that required the offense to kick the ball, but did not specify that the receiver had to be on the opposing team. Amos Alonzo Stagg, a Yale All-American in 1889 and later one of the game's greatest coaches, recalled that "the subterfuge was conceived of inch-kicking," whereby the kicker made an "inch kick" to himself, thus retaining possession of the ball. He would then hand it back to a teammate in a play called the V-wedge, "and the slow-moving mass of players clinging to one another moved forward in a slow lock-step run. The strategy was to open an aperture at a certain point of the wedge, through which the imprisoned runner would dart."

The suffering wrought by such plays increased dramatically with the introduction of the mighty "fling wedge," a remarkable "kickoff" play invented by Lorin E Deland, a military strategist, chess expert, and Harvard supporter who had never played a game of football in his life. Fans got to see Deland's bold new tactic for the first time in the second half of the 1892 Harvard-Yale encounter.
Deland divided Harvard's players into two groups of five men each at opposite sidelines. Before the ball was even in play team captain Bernie Trafford signaled the two groups. Each unit sprang forward, at first striding in unison, then sprinting obliquely toward the center of the field. Simultaneously, spectators leapt to their feet gasping.
Restricted by the rules, Yale's front line nervously held its position.
After amassing twenty yards at full velocity, the "flyers" fused at mid-field, forming a massive human arrow. Just then, Trafford pitched the ball back to his speedy halfback, Charlie Brewer. At that moment, one group of players executed a quarter turn, focusing the entire wedge toward Yale's right flank. Now both sides of the flying wedge pierced ahead at breakneck speed, attacking Yale's front line with great momentum. Brewer scampered behind the punishing wall, while Yale's brave defenders threw themselves into its dreadful path.
Brewer was finally forced out of the partially disintegrated wedge at Yale's twenty-yard line, where he tripped over one of his own players just as he was tackled by Frank Butterworth. Parke Davis, an early footballer turned historian, wrote of the action: "Sensation runs through the stands at the novel play, which is the most organized and beautiful one ever seen upon a football field."
Yale's incredible defense held and eventually won the game. However, Deland had opened Pandora's box. According to Davis, "No play has ever been devised so spectacular and sensational as this one." Stagg, writing in 1926, remarked that "The Deland invention probably was the most spectacular single formation ever opened as a surprise package. It was a great play when perfectly executed, but, demanding the exact coordination of eleven men, extremely difficult to execute properly."
Harvard's dangerous flying wedge quickly became the standard opening play for teams all across the country. But the play, which used the principle of mass momentum to great advantage, was deadly as well as effective. The cause of numerous deaths, the flying wedge was outlawed after only two seasons. As often happens with new sports rules, however, coaches and players soon found intriguing loopholes that kept the flying wedge alive."

[boltaneer]

This might help the coach win in his little high school games but what is it doing for the kids? I know they still have time in college to play in a pro-like offense but I dislike gimmicky offenses that doesn't prepare kids for the NFL.

[tsiguy96]

Originally Posted by boltaneer

This might help the coach win in his little high school games but what is it doing for the kids? I know they still have time in college to play in a pro-like offense but I dislike gimmicky offenses that doesn't prepare kids for the NFL.

99.99% of these kids wont even sniff the NFL. the ones that will will display their athletic ability enough to show they belong.

[Vegas_Bronco]

U of Hawaii will sign them to a full ride!

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by boltaneer

This might help the coach win in his little high school games but what is it doing for the kids? I know they still have time in college to play in a pro-like offense but I dislike gimmicky offenses that doesn't prepare kids for the NFL.

god i hope you were saying this as sarcasm but i doubt it. These kids arent going anywhere but maybe college. Small school = better get a degree. What kind of sicko are you? This school found a way to compete instead of getting their heads kicked in every Friday night. Innovative big time. That defense has got to be so damn tired after a series.

[BroncosinDC]

So its a misdirect snap with few O-Line men? Cool...you can beat teams with little athletic ability.

[broncocalijohn]

Originally Posted by BroncosinDC

So its a misdirect snap with few O-Line men? Cool...you can beat teams with little athletic ability.

Ditch the wishbone and have Army and Navy use this system. It is all quick releases because of what I see as size indifference.

[cmhargrove]

Looks like Arena League.

The funny thing is that the receivers are pretty well covered, and it spreads the defense so there aren't many "home run" plays. However, there are lots of holes to run through. I wouldn't want to defend it.

If I was a "win at all costs" coach, i'd tell my linebackers to hurl themselves at the knees of the QB once he started to move. Wait, that was pretty mean...

[SonOfLe-loLang]

Well of course its a gimmick offense that probably only works in the high school level, though i can imagining it seeping into the college game on an extremely limited basis (in special situations). But it does make for an interesting offense if your team is very quick and undersized. It spreads out the field as much as possible, allowing all your quick players more space to maneuver. It looks as if a pass rush could easily neutralized against it because all their plays are very quick hitting (watch the video). I bet 11 Anthony Alridges and Eddie Royals wouldbe pretty deadly in this offense.

[Popps]

First same-sex marriages, now this!

[Tombstone RJ]

I think this A-11 offense is incredible easy to defend against...

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

How many teams at the HS level have one of those?

They are using it a majority of the time (60%) but they are still using a traditional formation 40%.

Creating confusion for defensive players at the HS level could be deadly.

Just think they line up traditionally then motion out, now a defenders mind is racing to figure out where he is, then the play happens before he is in position and the ball carrier makes one good cut on the D and he is gone...

I like it when people think outside the box. Time will tell if it works or if people adapt.

My post was in response to it being "an up and coming trend" and that everyone will be doing it at all levels. At the pro and college level you can find a fair amount of teams that can run a zone with a stout front four. You can find even more that have loud stadiums which would cause problems when your "tackle" is split out wide down the line. That means more false starts or late jumps and that is going to make things hard. It's a gimmicky offense. I think it's cool that they are thinking outside the box, but it can't practically work at higher levels of football.

[NaptownChief]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

but it can't practically work at higher levels of football.

That is what a lot of people say about Paul Johnson's version of his spread option. Saying that gimmick offense can't work at the BCS level. I'm betting he starts owning the ACC at Georgia Tech with it.

[bronco militia]

I hate this kind of crap...

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by NaptownChief

That is what a lot of people say about Paul Johnson's version of his spread option. Saying that gimmick offense can't work at the BCS level. I'm betting he starts owning the ACC at Georgia Tech with it.

Spread option is just a varied version of the spread offense and isn't really new dating back to Lavell Edwards putting it in in the 70's. There's been reinventions of it, like what they use at Texas Tech, but that wasn't something "new" the way this is. This is a good case of fallacious argument by saying what someone said about something else proving to be wrong means this will be wrong too.

[NaptownChief]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Spread option is just a varied version of the spread offense and isn't really new dating back to Lavell Edwards putting it in in the 70's. There's been reinventions of it, like what they use at Texas Tech, but that wasn't something "new" the way this is. This is a good case of fallacious argument by saying what someone said about something else proving to be wrong means this will be wrong too.

Johnson's version is a bit different and has more of veer option integrated into it.

However the point is that many folks, whether you are one of them or not, hate change and hate outside the box thinking and are always quick to say "there is no way this will work" long before they really have a clue as to whether it will or not.

I'm a bit old school in many ways but I still love to see outside the box thinking. In a world of brilliant minds that can create some absolutely amazing things, the typical minds in the world of football are very archaic by comparison. Primarily made up of a bunch of meat heads that do things because "that's the way we have always done it..."

[El Minion]

Welcome to your new offense Mike McCarthy!

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by NaptownChief

Johnson's version is a bit different and has more of veer option integrated into it.

However the point is that many folks, whether you are one of them or not, hate change and hate outside the box thinking and are always quick to say "there is no way this will work" long before they really have a clue as to whether it will or not.

I'm a bit old school in many ways but I still love to see outside the box thinking. In a world of brilliant minds that can create some absolutely amazing things, the typical minds in the world of football are very archaic by comparison. Primarily made up of a bunch of meat heads that do things because "that's the way we have always done it..."

I can understand that but if you read my posts, all my concerns with it were with the practical implementation of it and ways it can be defensed more than feeling that we should stay the same for the sake of samness and tradition.