Too submissive to be French?? - The Orange Mane

DenverBrit · 07-11-2008, 12:26 PM

The irony!

France: Muslim too submissive for citizenship
Top court denies rights to burqa-wearing Morroccan woman
Reuters
updated 7:08 a.m. MT, Fri., July. 11, 2008

PARIS - France has denied citizenship to a veiled Moroccan woman on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes.

The case will reignite debate about how to reconcile freedom of religion, which is guaranteed by the French constitution, and other fundamental rights, which many in France feel are being challenged by the way of life of some Muslims.

Le Monde newspaper said it was the first time a Muslim applicant had been rejected for reasons to do with personal religious practice.

"She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," said a ruling by the Council of State handed down last month and sent to Reuters on Friday to confirm a report in Le Monde.

The Council of State is a judicial body which has final say on disputes between individuals and the public administration.

She speaks good French
Married to a French national, the woman arrived in France in 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France.

She wears a black burqa that covers all her body except her eyes, which are visible through a narrow slit, and lives in "total submission" to her husband and male relatives, according to reports by social services. Le Monde said the woman is 32.

The woman's application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on grounds of "insufficient assimilation". She appealed to the Council of State, which last month approved the rejection.

In the past, nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremist circles or who had publicly advocated radicalism, which is not the case here.

The ruling comes weeks after a heated debate over whether traditional Muslim views were creeping into French law, prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be.

Going to an extreme?
In the case of the Moroccan woman, Le Monde suggested the Council of State had gone to the opposite extreme by rejecting the woman's beliefs and way of life rather than accommodating them.

"Is a burqa incompatible with French nationality?" the newspaper asked.

The legal expert who provided a formal report on the case to the Council of State wrote that the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society," Le Monde reported.

"She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind," Emmanuelle Prada-Bordenave wrote.

Le Monde quoted Daniele Lochak, a law professor not involved in the case, as saying it was bizarre to consider that excessive submission to men was a reason not to grant citizenship.

"If you follow that to its logical conclusion, it means that women whose partners beat them are also not worthy of being French," Lochak said.

Copyright 2008 Reuters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25637418

cutthemdown · 07-11-2008, 01:34 PM

French are waking up IMO. Eventually they will be bombing right along with us.

)

BABronco · 07-11-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

French are waking up IMO. Eventually they will be bombing right along with us.

)

If being French means not waring with and bombing other countries, well then im all for being french.

Breaker · 07-11-2008, 04:07 PM

You know things have gone from bad to worse when the French accuse you of not being tough enough.

DenverBrit · 07-11-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breaker

You things have gone from bad to worse when the French accuse you of not being tough enough.

Irony indeed.

cutthemdown · 07-11-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BABronco

If being French means not waring with and bombing other countries, well then im all for being french.

Well it was only a joke but I don't subscribe that America is all about bombing people. Only a select few get that treatment and it's always because they ask for it. A certain amount of force is required to get peoples attention in the middle east.

Read a book called From Beirut to Jerusalem and it sheds a lot of light about how the Muslim culture and the Arab peoples see negotiations as a sign of weakness. It also will point out any talk of the Jewish people giving up Jerusalem is a total farce. They will never give that to the Palestinians.

I do feel though the French people see there culture being crapped on by immigrants and want to crack down. I don't blame them one bit. They also voted in a more conservative President because The French people see the dangers on the horizon for them if they didn't.

As far as people making fun of France goes i don't buy it. Frenchman have fought and fought well. It wasn't there fault there govt left the military with inferior strategy and equipment to start ww2. I will make fun of France as well but in reality there history goes back a long ways, is rich with culture, and they make a hell of a Saxophone.

Dukes · 07-11-2008, 07:19 PM

Anyone hear about Bridgitte Bardot?

http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/04...racial-hatred/

She was fined $20k for inciting "hatred" in France against muslims.

BABronco · 07-11-2008, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dukes

Anyone hear about Bridgitte Bardot?

http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/04...racial-hatred/

She was fined $20k for inciting "hatred" in France against muslims.

hate speech=bs 99.9% of the time.

07-11-2008, 12:26 PM	#1
DenverBrit Just hanging out. Got a breath mint?? Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Denver Posts: 11,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: The Team	Too submissive to be French?? The irony! France: Muslim too submissive for citizenship Top court denies rights to burqa-wearing Morroccan woman Reuters updated 7:08 a.m. MT, Fri., July. 11, 2008 PARIS - France has denied citizenship to a veiled Moroccan woman on the grounds that her "radical" practice of Islam is incompatible with basic French values such as equality of the sexes. The case will reignite debate about how to reconcile freedom of religion, which is guaranteed by the French constitution, and other fundamental rights, which many in France feel are being challenged by the way of life of some Muslims. Le Monde newspaper said it was the first time a Muslim applicant had been rejected for reasons to do with personal religious practice. "She has adopted a radical practice of her religion, incompatible with essential values of the French community, particularly the principle of equality of the sexes," said a ruling by the Council of State handed down last month and sent to Reuters on Friday to confirm a report in Le Monde. The Council of State is a judicial body which has final say on disputes between individuals and the public administration. She speaks good French Married to a French national, the woman arrived in France in 2000, speaks good French and has three children born in France. She wears a black burqa that covers all her body except her eyes, which are visible through a narrow slit, and lives in "total submission" to her husband and male relatives, according to reports by social services. Le Monde said the woman is 32. The woman's application for French nationality was rejected in 2005 on grounds of "insufficient assimilation". She appealed to the Council of State, which last month approved the rejection. In the past, nationality was denied to Muslims who were known to have links with extremist circles or who had publicly advocated radicalism, which is not the case here. The ruling comes weeks after a heated debate over whether traditional Muslim views were creeping into French law, prompted by a court annulment of the marriage of two Muslims because the husband said the wife was not a virgin as she had claimed to be. Going to an extreme? In the case of the Moroccan woman, Le Monde suggested the Council of State had gone to the opposite extreme by rejecting the woman's beliefs and way of life rather than accommodating them. "Is a burqa incompatible with French nationality?" the newspaper asked. The legal expert who provided a formal report on the case to the Council of State wrote that the woman's interviews with social services revealed that "she lives almost as a recluse, isolated from French society," Le Monde reported. "She has no idea about the secular state or the right to vote. She lives in total submission to her male relatives. She seems to find this normal and the idea of challenging it has never crossed her mind," Emmanuelle Prada-Bordenave wrote. Le Monde quoted Daniele Lochak, a law professor not involved in the case, as saying it was bizarre to consider that excessive submission to men was a reason not to grant citizenship. "If you follow that to its logical conclusion, it means that women whose partners beat them are also not worthy of being French," Lochak said. Copyright 2008 Reuters. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25637418

07-11-2008, 04:07 PM	#4
Breaker Bleeding Orange and Blue Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 1,007	You know things have gone from bad to worse when the French accuse you of not being tough enough. Last edited by Breaker; 07-11-2008 at 04:29 PM..

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07-11-2008, 01:34 PM	#2
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,531	French are waking up IMO. Eventually they will be bombing right along with us. )

07-11-2008, 07:19 PM	#7
Dukes Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 6,317	Anyone hear about Bridgitte Bardot? http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2008/04...racial-hatred/ She was fined $20k for inciting "hatred" in France against muslims.