Way OT: Ebay continues to get crappier

[Popps]

Not sure how many on here are regular sellers, but my business has me buying/selling a good deal of pro audio/AV gear.

Just logged in to find out that sellers can no longer leave feedback! ONLY buyers. Even worse, sellers can only leave positive feedback.

So, aside from Ebay and Paypal being overrun with scammers, now... Ebay has basically just said that someone can attempt to scam you, or take 10 days to pay you for an item, and you can't leave negative feedback.

It also means that if someone doesn't read your ad correctly, and buys something other than what they (mistakenly) thought they were buying... YOU are going to get bad feedback with no recourse to fight it.

I've sold hundreds of items with zero negative feedback. I attribute most of that to being painfully specific in my ads, and bending over backwards to accommodate buyers. But, I also attribute some of it to the old feedback structure facilitating an atmosphere were buyer and seller were prone to try to work things out in a friendly manner... because no one wanted negative feedback.

In any case, maybe no one else cares... but I've been a huge ebay user/fan, but it just keeps going downhill. I'm going to send a letter. Hopefully a few of you will, too.

[want2bAbronco2]

My friend at works makes a lot of extra cash on ebay. He has stopped using it and gone to another site (not sure where??). He sold a lady 5 glasses for 35$ and told her he would mail them off that day, something happened to his wife and he didnt mail them. Got up before work, went to mail them and when he checked his account the lady had called her credit card and cancealed the payment. Then she gave him NEGATIVE feed back for not sending the items! Ebay is screwing themselves, I can count at least 15 ppl that have stopped selling with them.

[TexanBob]

It's the nature of every creative business. Someone comes along and screws it up badly.

There was a Louisana company that used to make microwaved gumbo. I know it doesn't sound that appetizing but, trust me, it was easy to make and delicious.

The company was bought out by a larger company on the East Coast who totally ruined the recipe and, of course, discontinued the item claiming it wouldn't sell. Well, of course it wouldn't sell once the recipe was yankeefied.

Ebay was superb when it first began before the scammers could figure out a million ways to scam you and corporate heads came in to destroy the business like a termite does wood.

Sad, really. Hope you find a way to keep your biz afloat.

[That One Guy]

I like the new Ebay system, sellers killed the old way. If I buy something today and pay for it 2 hours from now, why do most sellers wait until I've left feedback to leave me feedback? They do it because they know that if I leave them bad, they can try and retaliate. For the feedback system to work, you have to be free to be honest. None of this would've been an issue if Ebay merely made people leave feedback in the order the transactions take place (i.e. buyer pays first, seller leaves feedback then when seller ships, buyer leaves feedback). Don't try and leave this at Ebay's doorsteps, sellers started it and new Ebay management just came up with the solution they deemed fit.

And Sellers can still leave positive or neutral, from what I was told, just no negative.

[broncosteven]

I hadn't used Ebay in a long time, I just last week sold and old Aardvark Q10 and a Novation Supernova II.

I am with Pops. If a buyer wants to ruin my Feedback rep and knows they will have nothing to fear the bad buyers will be finding way to scam on this.

As a seller I NEVER left any feedback until I got it 1st. I had a script I would send buyers stating thanks for purchase, if you liked my auction please leave feedback and I will do same in return.

I think some suit wanted to pump up the volume of sales buy letting the difficult buyers have their way with those that want to sell. I wonder if it does not become a more business orientated site with products only from larger distributors.

[Orange_Beard]

This is pretty old news.

There was a boycott a cople of weeks ago.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by cah412

I like the new Ebay system, sellers killed the old way. If I buy something today and pay for it 2 hours from now, why do most sellers wait until I've left feedback to leave me feedback? They do it because they know that if I leave them bad, they can try and retaliate. For the feedback system to work, you have to be free to be honest. None of this would've been an issue if Ebay merely made people leave feedback in the order the transactions take place (i.e. buyer pays first, seller leaves feedback then when seller ships, buyer leaves feedback). Don't try and leave this at Ebay's doorsteps, sellers started it and new Ebay management just came up with the solution they deemed fit.

And Sellers can still leave positive or neutral, from what I was told, just no negative.

Dude, the seller is the one that holds the cards, i.e. $. The whole site was not based on instant gratification, if you want that go to the mall, the idea was for the little people to unload their old possessions and get a Fair Market value. Delivery was always best effort unless a buyer requested and Paid for next day or even Priority shipment.

I have bought a lot of stuff on Ebay, I have sold a lot more.

As a buyer I know I use Feedback to ensure that I get proper resolution to any issue. Once the transaction is completed to my satisfaction I leave seller feedback. If I get the item and have trouble I know I can leave appropriate feedback or threaten to until problem is resolved.

As a Seller I never leave feedback until I get it 1st. Just because someone pays does not mean they won't leave neg rep. I always say no returns, ask questions before you bid, but people still buy things not knowing what it does. As a seller I can only leave neg rep in order to get payment.

As a seller From now on I doubt I will bother leaving any buyer rep.

I think Ebay just screwed the pooch

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

I hadn't used Ebay in a long time, I just last week sold and old Aardvark Q10 and a Novation Supernova II.

I am with Pops. If a buyer wants to ruin my Feedback rep and knows they will have nothing to fear the bad buyers will be finding way to scam on this.

As a seller I NEVER left any feedback until I got it 1st. I had a script I would send buyers stating thanks for purchase, if you liked my auction please leave feedback and I will do same in return.

I think some suit wanted to pump up the volume of sales buy letting the difficult buyers have their way with those that want to sell. I wonder if it does not become a more business orientated site with products only from larger distributors.

Sellers have been using that same, worn out excuse forever. As if someone wakes up in the morning and goes browsing for items just so they can buy em and leave you bad feedback. If you do good service, why is someone you don't even know going to be spiteful and try to make you look bad? Are there that many cases of buyers remorse and you're just getting the brunt of it in your auction?

2 years ago, I bought a monitor off Ebay and when it got there, the monitor was fine except it didn't work. Turned out the circuit board inside was broken. I can't say whether it happened in shipping or before hand, no way to know, but the seller basically told me to F off. I could've probably paid another $30 and sent it back to him and fought for my money back... but that'd have seen me waste $60 total on shipping for a monitor I paid $40 for. In the end, I paid the $40, $30 for shipping, and another $50 for it to be repaired. If I'd left the seller bad feedback for resisting to work with me, any doubt in your mind I'd have gotten some too? The feedback system must be free of retaliation or it's nothing, just a bubble of happiness where noone's gonna complain because their feedback will inevitably be punished as well.

Again, tell me why if I pay first, I should have to leave you feedback before I get any. Short of being able to retaliate, where's the justification?

[broncocalijohn]

I used to sell a lot of my Angels season tickets on there (since most now go to stubhub). I dont like the fact that Ebay assumes all buyers are good and sellers are the ones who are at fault. I have had people purchase items than (duh) they dont have a Paypal account set up , but they want the tickets that day for the concert tomorrow. No problem, meet me at my office with cash and you can have the tickets. No show, but now no negative feedback. I always liked the way you can have a third party declare what was fair if a problem came up. Ive had one neg feedback in over 600 feedback transactions. Ive given more than 10 on non payments, slow payments, etc. That wont be an option since last month.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

Dude, the seller is the one that holds the cards, i.e. $. The whole site was not based on instant gratification, if you want that go to the mall, the idea was for the little people to unload their old possessions and get a Fair Market value. Delivery was always best effort unless a buyer requested and Paid for next day or even Priority shipment.

I have bought a lot of stuff on Ebay, I have sold a lot more.

As a buyer I know I use Feedback to ensure that I get proper resolution to any issue. Once the transaction is completed to my satisfaction I leave seller feedback. If I get the item and have trouble I know I can leave appropriate feedback or threaten to until problem is resolved.

As a Seller I never leave feedback until I get it 1st. Just because someone pays does not mean they won't leave neg rep. I always say no returns, ask questions before you bid, but people still buy things not knowing what it does. As a seller I can only leave neg rep in order to get payment.

As a seller From now on I doubt I will bother leaving any buyer rep.

I think Ebay just screwed the pooch

I missed something, I'm not tracking on the instant gratification issue. I was merely using the 2 hour later reference to say I performed my obligations perfectly. At that point, I should be guaranteed good feedback. Now, if there's an issue with the item then that's a different story and that comes back to the seller's part of the deal. Ebay has a dispute option for bad feedback, I believe, but in any case to say that they'll just find a reason to leave bad feedback because they're ignorant means you (the seller) are now trying to assume the worst of the client. More often than not, the buyer should be aware of what they're getting and, in my own personal experience, does. Sure the issue may arise where there was some miscommunication or buyer assumptions but there's also cases where a seller deliberately misleads... that's just the kind of people that are out there. The majority of people aren't that way though and to say you aren't leaving feedback until they do incase they turn out to be that way is, as I said, a way to use retaliation on them if they aren't happy with you and nullifies the entire intent of the feedback system.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

I used to sell a lot of my Angels season tickets on there (since most now go to stubhub). I dont like the fact that Ebay assumes all buyers are good and sellers are the ones who are at fault. I have had people purchase items than (duh) they dont have a Paypal account set up , but they want the tickets that day for the concert tomorrow. No problem, meet me at my office with cash and you can have the tickets. No show, but now no negative feedback. I always liked the way you can have a third party declare what was fair if a problem came up. Ive had one neg feedback in over 600 feedback transactions. Ive given more than 10 on non payments, slow payments, etc. That wont be an option since last month.

Definitely agreed that there are bad buyers out there and, as I've been ranting about, had sellers used it to rate the buyers rather than as leverage then there'd have been no issue in the first place. Ebay has now decided that a half effective feedback system is better than the complete farce that had been in place.

[theAPAOps5]

So what else is out there now? I have been researching my ass off for about a year and have found a good item to sell on Ebay and now all this scares me away. Is there anywhere else a person can go?

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

So what else is out there now? I have been researching my ass off for about a year and have found a good item to sell on Ebay and now all this scares me away. Is there anywhere else a person can go?

Google supposedly was trying to capitalize on the Ebay fiasco currently going on by offering a Goolge Auctions but it isn't going yet. A lot of stuff can be sold on Amazon but nowhere near as freely as Ebay and I really don't know how Amazon works, to be honest. Ebay usually works out well and it seems the ones who really get bent out of shape are the people selling trinkets and apparently thinking they're going to end up with a multi-million dollar enterprise. You're running an Ebay store from your basement, stop taking it so seriously... There's worse things in the world than getting bad feedback and not being able to retaliate. I've been a regular Ebay user for years now and have had mostly great experiences in buying and selling items.

[PaintballCLE]

ebay is garbage now....i will still buy on there.....but wont sell anything now......besides ebay gets their money from sellers (only) so they better be careful or else they are going to scare all their money away.

[broncosteven]

Originally Posted by cah412

I missed something, I'm not tracking on the instant gratification issue. I was merely using the 2 hour later reference to say I performed my obligations perfectly. At that point, I should be guaranteed good feedback. Now, if there's an issue with the item then that's a different story and that comes back to the seller's part of the deal. Ebay has a dispute option for bad feedback, I believe, but in any case to say that they'll just find a reason to leave bad feedback because they're ignorant means you (the seller) are now trying to assume the worst of the client. More often than not, the buyer should be aware of what they're getting and, in my own personal experience, does. Sure the issue may arise where there was some miscommunication or buyer assumptions but there's also cases where a seller deliberately misleads... that's just the kind of people that are out there. The majority of people aren't that way though and to say you aren't leaving feedback until they do incase they turn out to be that way is, as I said, a way to use retaliation on them if they aren't happy with you and nullifies the entire intent of the feedback system.

It is all about protecting your rep.

There are both good and bad Sellers just as there are buyers.

Have you sold a large volume of items on Ebay?

If you have you will understand, this was a move to generate more buyers.

I for one have perfect feedback. I use it as a decision to make a purchase when I buy.

When I sell i use it to gauge if I am going to have any problems with the buyer.

I thought the old system was good by keeping nutjobs accountable on both sides.

Alot of times as a seller you get the people that click Buy it now then don't send the money for a couple of days same with regular auctions even when you click that all buyers need to pay with paypal...

[Popps]

Originally Posted by cah412

And Sellers can still leave positive or neutral, from what I was told, just no negative.

Right, I understand the mindset behind it, but it's sort of like the mindset behind Communism. Might sound O.K. on paper, but doesn't work well in real life.

Sellers are going to get screwed here, badly. Here's a good example...

I just recently sold an old iBook. I mean old. Beat up, had issues and was advertised as such. But, it had value of a couple hundred in parts, minimum.
Well, some guy bought it... then wrote back later livid because it had the very issues I described in my ad. I also said it was an "as-is" auction and that it might be best for someone to part out. But, dip**** still bought it thinking he was getting a brand new Macbook Air.

So, he starts demanding a refund. I said, look... take it to an Apple store and have it diagnosed. They probably won't charge anything. (Or computer store of choice.) If there is any damage I didn't outline in my ad, I'll pay for it. I might even refund you some of the money anyway... if it can be easily fixed.

But, dip**** refused. So, for all I know... this dumbass could have dropped it off his kitchen table, and now just wants free money back for it. He filed a dispute. I answered, clearly outlining the clarity of my ad, and my willingness to even go the extra mile to help pay for repairs if he simply had it diagnosed. He refused.

Now, under the NEW set-up, I GUARANTEE you this guy would rip me six ways to Sunday. (He probably still will if this idiotic rule is backdated.)
But, he knew I'd tell the real story if he did so... so he didn't.

Like I said, if you've sold enough... you have to see how this is going be brutal on sellers. Buyers have NO accountability, and sellers can be ripped for any whim, mistake or scam a buyer wants to run.

I don't blame the guy above who looked for greener pastures.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by I bleed orange and blue

ebay is garbage now....i will still buy on there.....but wont sell anything now......besides ebay gets their money from sellers (only) so they better be careful or else they are going to scare all their money away.

I almost wonder if Ebay isn't trying to go quality over quantity sometimes. There's so many people running Ebay stores that it gets outrageous. Have you seen how many people post vehicles that never sell? I'd say a good 80%+ never get a single bid because these people are trying to sell at dealer prices rather than Ebay prices. You put it in an auction, you'll always get less than if it sits on your lot until someone decides they want it that bad. Ebay has systems for these people to continue to relist their items for free a time or two if they didn't sell and I often get emails about items I've won and paid for being relisted. In the end, Ebay stores draw volume but they clutter up the site so bad it's getting out of hand. That, I believe, is part of the reason they upped seller fees when the recent changes went into effect. Originally Ebay was more of an auction site and less of a 'store' but it's really changed the last few years.

It doesn't seem to make sense from a business standpoint because those stores that are cluttering up are still paying for all that volume they post whether it sells or not but from an 'Ebay is turning into a joke' standpoint, Ebay can definitely stand to have that cut back some and unrealistic sellers driven away. Maybe that's their angle, less volume at higher prices wont drop income drastically but will clean up some of the clutter.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Popps

Right, I understand the mindset behind it, but it's sort of like the mindset behind Communism. Might sound O.K. on paper, but doesn't work well in real life.

Sellers are going to get screwed here, badly. Here's a good example...

I just recently sold an old iBook. I mean old. Beat up, had issues and was advertised as such. But, it had value of a couple hundred in parts, minimum.
Well, some guy bought it... then wrote back later livid because it had the very issues I described in my ad. I also said it was an "as-is" auction and that it might be best for someone to part out. But, dip**** still bought it thinking he was getting a brand new Macbook Air.

So, he starts demanding a refund. I said, look... take it to an Apple store and have it diagnosed. They probably won't charge anything. (Or computer store of choice.) If there is any damage I didn't outline in my ad, I'll pay for it. I might even refund you some of the money anyway... if it can be easily fixed.

But, dip**** refused. So, for all I know... this dumbass could have dropped it off his kitchen table, and now just wants free money back for it. He filed a dispute. I answered, clearly outlining the clarity of my ad, and my willingness to even go the extra mile to help pay for repairs if he simply had it diagnosed. He refused.

Now, under the NEW set-up, I GUARANTEE you this guy would rip me six ways to Sunday. (He probably still will if this idiotic rule is backdated.)
But, he knew I'd tell the real story if he did so... so he didn't.

Like I said, if you've sold enough... you have to see how this is going be brutal on sellers. Buyers have NO accountability, and sellers can be ripped for any whim, mistake or scam a buyer wants to run.

I don't blame the guy above who looked for greener pastures.

Isn't there a dispute option where you can say "these are his issues" and "here's what I said was wrong with it in the ad" and they can resolve it and clear the feedback? I don't believe I've ever gotten bad so I haven't had to use it but I believe there's some sort of resolution process to it. If there's not, that's definitely a glaring problem and Ebay would definitely be missing there.

[Popps]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

If you have you will understand, this was a move to generate more buyers.
.

Bingo. Was just having this conversation with someone else. It's so transparent.

I'm also absolutely positive that Ebay turns a blind eye to the THOUSANDS of scam ads on their site at any time. You know, the brand new 50" Plasma TVs for $300. 24" iMacs for $600. Etc.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by broncosteven

It is all about protecting your rep.

There are both good and bad Sellers just as there are buyers.

Have you sold a large volume of items on Ebay?

If you have you will understand, this was a move to generate more buyers.

I for one have perfect feedback. I use it as a decision to make a purchase when I buy.

When I sell i use it to gauge if I am going to have any problems with the buyer.

I thought the old system was good by keeping nutjobs accountable on both sides.

Alot of times as a seller you get the people that click Buy it now then don't send the money for a couple of days same with regular auctions even when you click that all buyers need to pay with paypal...

I understand it ties your hands and is unfair as a seller. My argument is that it's necessary though to establish any validity to the feedback system. Just as you said, it keeps both nutjobs in check but there shouldn't be any checks other than a mediating authority for bad feedback. I guarantee you it was changed because there were too many "buyer left me bad feedback, so I'm doing the same" justified negative feedbacks than that Ebay just wants to shield their buyers from responsibility. They probably didn't post that was why they left the bad feedback, but I'd bet the percentage of bad feedback prompting bad feedback and good prompting good was outrageously high and then the system is pointless.

And under the username it doesn't say anything about bad feedback until the profile page, it says how much is GOOD. So you can't leave the buyer bad feedback but you CAN affect his % of good feedback. That's basically the same as leaving bad as anyone wanting to investigate further would have to open the profile and would, therefore, be capable of reading the comments left. So, in reality, it doesn't change anything... even for what I was saying it would do.

[Popps]

Originally Posted by cah412

Isn't there a dispute option where you can say "these are his issues" and "here's what I said was wrong with it in the ad" and they can resolve it and clear the feedback? I don't believe I've ever gotten bad so I haven't had to use it but I believe there's some sort of resolution process to it. If there's not, that's definitely a glaring problem and Ebay would definitely be missing there.

I just actually had a non-paying, non-responsive winner. As far as I can tell, all I can do is file dispute. (Non-payment, fraudulent, etc.) But, I don't see any way to flag this guy or give him negative feedback, which he absolutely deserves.

Now, this guy is free to go on continuing to place winning bids on items that he has no intention of buying. Why this is fun, I have no idea.

But, guess who gets to keep those listing fees? EBAY! That's right, you can go through a long-ass process to get your final value fees back, but you have to pay again to list, and I'm sure plenty of people just don't bother with the final value refund. Again... Ebay wins when the seller loses.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Popps

Bingo. Was just having this conversation with someone else. It's so transparent.

I'm also absolutely positive that Ebay turns a blind eye to the THOUSANDS of scam ads on their site at any time. You know, the brand new 50" Plasma TVs for $300. 24" iMacs for $600. Etc.

I don't get it. How can you figure this would generate more buyers short of MAYBE making the buyers more satisfied with their experience which should be the ultimate goal anyways. From the start, sellers are motivated by money to post their items... a good experience has to be slightly geared towards the buyer to provide them incentive to use the venue. On that fact, I understand. Outside of that, how does this supposed release from responsibility attact new customers? It seems that if you're the kind of person who is going to win an auction and then not pay, you're probably not overly concerned about your feedback rating either. I don't get it.

[BroncoBuff]

Originally Posted by want2bAbronco2

My friend at works makes a lot of extra cash on ebay. He has stopped using it and gone to another site (not sure where??).

It's possible your friend is not changing sites voluntarily. eBay started purging thousands of accounts last fall, using a new "90 day snapshot" standard of review. Accounts with overall histories of even over 98 or 99% positive have been purged based on falling below a "90-day snapshot" minimum standard. There was a Daily Journal (legal) article about the practice a few months ago, and the potential for eBay liability here. Something about the User feedback profiles displaying only a "6 Month" history, but now judging on the 3-month standard. Plus there's a reliance argument in contract law. That is, eBay has long promo'd itself using terms like "partnership" with retailers and sellers, and this new practice undercuts long-term relationships, the terms of which Users (sellers) have relied upon to build their businesses.

Of course Yahoo Auctions wasted millions tying to compete with eBay starting in 1999, and they finally closed about a year ago ... right about the time eBay started cracking down on sellers.

Is that a coincidence?

Methinks no.

[Popps]

Originally Posted by cah412

I I guarantee you it was changed because there were too many "buyer left me bad feedback, so I'm doing the same" .

Even if that's the case, I'd argue the it's still more legitimate that only assuming the SELLER is capable of wrongdoing.

Again, I've sold hundreds of items and never had a complaint, and I bust my ass to make people happy. Conversely, I've had a decent number of scammers and really bad buyers, people who used unverified Paypal accounts, etc.

So, buyers can be just as detrimental as sellers.

Again, pretty much proving the point that Ebay just wants to generate money, even at the expense of sellers getting screwed, scammed, etc.

How on earth can you set up a 2-party system between individuals that doesn't allow one party a say?

It's like only allowing the plaintiff to tell their side. Silly.

[BroncoBuff]

People have been pressing Google to get in the business for awhile now:

http://www.webpronews.com/topnews/20...e-auction-site