Young white evangelicals moving to the political center

[footstepsfrom#27]

LABF may remember...I predicted two years ago this was coming. It spells bad news for the GOP. White evangelicals and black voters are the two single largest voting blocks that vote overwhelmingly one direction. Losing that base is the GOP's greatest fear...and it should be...they've been the deciding factor for Republicans since Reagan.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080622/...vangelicals_dc

Young evangelicals aim to broaden agenda

By Deborah Jian Lee
Sun Jun 22, 9:58 AM ET

PRINCETON, New Jersey (Reuters) - Matt Dunbar is not your typical evangelical Christian.

With his tousled hair, sideburns and a scruffy "soul patch" beard, the 26-year-old New Yorker belongs to a growing minority of young evangelicals who want to broaden their political agenda beyond the traditional opposition to abortion and gay marriage.

Evangelicals like Dunbar are eager to move on and tackle such hot topics as global warming and social justice.

As they move to the center of the political spectrum, they are deciding whether Republican presidential candidate John McCain or Democrat Barack Obama aligns best with their values and deserves their vote in the November presidential election.

A former Republican, Dunbar's political views began to change with the war in Iraq. "I couldn't keep my political affiliation with the Republican Party at that point," he said.

Research shows many young white evangelical Christians are moving away from the Republican Party.

Surveys by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life show a 15 percentage point drop in the alliance of white evangelicals aged 18 to 29 with the Republican Party over the past two years.

"This group is going to be definitely worth watching," said Dan Cox, a Pew research associate and author of the report. "If anything, they're becoming more independent in their outlook."

Most favor stricter laws to protect the environment, for example, an issue not typically associated with Republican platforms, yet remain conservative on issues like opposition to abortion and support for the death penalty.

BEYOND SOCIAL ISSUES

Several hundred young evangelicals gathered last week at Princeton University in New Jersey to meet with Christian leaders, discuss the evangelical agenda and look at the role of religion in public life. The conference was called "Envision: the Gospel, Politics and the Future."

Tattoos, scruffy facial hair and flip-flops abounded among the young attendees.

Shane Claiborne, author of "The Irresistible Revolution -- Living as an Ordinary Radical," called on young Christians to get politically and personally involved on issues of justice.

"I see an entire generation of young people who want a Christianity they can wrap their hands around," said Claiborne, who wears his hair in shoulder-length dreadlocks. "They don't want to just believe stuff. They're saying if you want to know what I believe, then watch how I live."

Claiborne and others at the conference pressed the crowd to move beyond the typical platform of the religious right.

One in four Americans consider themselves evangelical Christians, and some four-fifths of evangelical voters backed Republican President George W. Bush as he sought reelection in 2004.

McCain is regarded with suspicion in conservative evangelical circles because of his past support for stem cell research, his failure to support a federal ban on gay marriage, and his support for immigration reform, among other things.

Both McCain and Obama will be hard pressed to attract voters like Tonya Grant, a 23-year-old Bible college student from New Jersey, who said she voted for Bush in 2004.

"It seems like he (McCain) is playing the evangelical Jesus card," she said. But she's not sold on Obama either, and she doesn't favor his health-care reform proposals.

"I'm completely torn," she said.

Amy Coffin, 27, of Los Angeles said she is drawn to Obama because of his health-care plan and desire to end the war in Iraq.

She does not align herself with any political party and is critical of how so many evangelicals supported Bush. "I think a lot of that is apathy and laziness, letting people tell them how to vote," she said.

She is not looking to the election to further social change, but is pushing for change in her own life. A year ago she moved to India, where she is helping start a church in New Delhi.

"Hopefully by living with the poor, you end up doing social justice naturally," she said.

[Spider]

Oh Yeah , the god squad is aiming for higher goals ..........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

LABF may remember...I predicted two years ago this was coming.

Yes, you did.

I do remember.

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

It spells bad news for the GOP. White evangelicals and black voters are the two single largest voting blocks that vote overwhelmingly one direction. Losing that base is the GOP's greatest fear...and it should be...they've been the deciding factor for Republicans since Reagan.

With his tousled hair, sideburns and a scruffy "soul patch" beard, the 26-year-old New Yorker belongs to a growing minority of young evangelicals who want to broaden their political agenda beyond the traditional opposition to abortion and gay marriage.

Evangelicals like Dunbar are eager to move on and tackle such hot topics as global warming and social justice.

Sounds a lot more Christ-like to me.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Further reading:

Young Evangelicals Abandoning GOP Over Iraq, Economy

http://ohnestaeb.newsvine.com/_news/...r-iraq-economy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0..._n_101184.html

GOP's Hold on Evangelicals Weakening

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100501763.html

[Dudeskey]

Originally Posted by Spider

Oh Yeah , the god squad is aiming for higher goals ..........

Its all Larry's fault....

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Yes, you did.

I do remember.







Sounds a lot more Christ-like to me.

One of the key factors here is the way evangelicals define the word "morality". Single issue voters who hold "morality" by the narrow definition most white evangelicals do ignore the so called "social" issues...war, poverty, racism, injustice, political oppression...etc...as being "moral" issues...but black evangelicals who hold the same theology and view of the Bible, hold these same social issues to also be "moral" in nature. The rise of large multicultural churches in major urban centers with huge membership rolls that attract younger whites alongside black evangelicals is changing the political dynamics of the voting block. A 15% drop in the 18-29 age group in two years is huge. Part of that is the Bush idiot factor...but not all of it.

It may not be Obama's church affiliation that decides this election...it might be McCains...ironic as that is.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

One of the key factors here is the way evangelicals define the word "morality". Single issue voters who hold "morality" by the narrow definition most white evangelicals do ignore the so called "social" issues...war, poverty, racism, injustice, political oppression...etc...as being "moral" issues...but black evangelicals who hold the same theology and view of the Bible, hold these same social issues to also be "moral" in nature. The rise of large multicultural churches in major urban centers with huge membership rolls that attract younger whites alongside black evangelicals is changing the political dynamics of the voting block. A 15% drop in the 18-29 age group in two years is huge. Part of that is the Bush idiot factor...but not all of it.

It may not be Obama's church affiliation that decides this election...it might be McCains...ironic as that is.

Incredibly racist. Could it be that many of those White, immoral (in your eyes)evangelicals are simply waking up to the fact that voting on singular issues such as gay marriage was simply the wrong dceision. I find it incredibly condescending that these white evangelicals are only now being shown the error of their ways after having been exposed to the large multicultural churches in major urban centers led by the "MORAL" black evangelicals. You are a racist of the highest order. Why all of this hate?

I believe that White evagelicals, among many other groups within this great country, realize that Iraq was a blunder of the highest order leading to the many dificult financial issues that we now face--and hopefully, that will be one of a handfull of issues, (taxes, socialized healthcare) that the voters will focus on instead of being blinded by something such as abortion rights or gay marriage again.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

Incredibly racist. Could it be that many of those White, immoral (in your eyes)evangelicals are simply waking up to the fact that voting on singular issues such as gay marriage was simply the wrong dceision. I find it incredibly condescending that these white evangelicals are only now being shown the error of their ways after having been exposed to the large multicultural churches in major urban centers led by the "MORAL" black evangelicals. You are a racist of the highest order. Why all of this hate?

First of all, don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about white evangelicals being "immoral". You need to learn to read. Second, it has nothing to do with hate. Third, you haven't been on this board anywhere near long enough to identify me as a racist. I suggest you use that little search tool and find out what I believe and what I don't before you sling the R word my direction because you look like a fool suggesting this to anyone in here who knows me and what I post about.

Racism has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. This is a simple matter of two styles of worship and two divergent pathways that mark two distinct types of evangelical church services, both of which eminate from the same essential theology of biblical innerancy, but differ along this critical fault line as it's developed along racial/cultural lines. If you had ever visited a black church, you would know that what I'm saying is 100% correct. Black churches have for hundreds of years in this country identified the social justice/injustice issues...primarily slavery but other things as well...as "morality" issues. White evangelical and fundamentalist protestant churches have over the last 30 years...mostly sinnce the rise of televangelists and the fallout from Roe vs. Wade in 1973...swung to the right side of the political spectrum as they moved away from identifying these issues as moral ones towards a theology that expressed itself politically around a small number of issues like abortion; hence the rise of single issue voters.

A lot of people don't realize that historically the evangelical church was mostly centered to the left politically prior to the rise of people like Jerry Fallwell, who effectively repositioned the moral compass based on their own agendas. Prior to this move a large number of evangelicals considered themselves democrats in this country. The move you are now seeing is merely an adjustment of the pendulum towards what has been the historical position of evangelicalism for a longer period of time than it's existed as it does now.

It's a simple fact that more often than not, since the early 70's white evangelicals have identified these moral issues as "social" problems. You will notice that I did not say that ALL white CHURCHES identify them as such. Classic LIBERAL theology expressed in mainline protestant denominations have in fact also identified issues like race, poverty, political oppression, gender politics, etc...as "moral" issues rather than social ones, and have done so for decades, as have Roman Catholics. It's the white EVANGELICAL churches, including so called "fundamentalism" that has moved away from the historical position the church in general has taken prior to that time, where issues of social justice were seen as part of the greater moral context of society.

I believe that White evagelicals, among many other groups within this great country, realize that Iraq was a blunder of the highest order leading to the many dificult financial issues that we now face--and hopefully, that will be one of a handfull of issues, (taxes, socialized healthcare) that the voters will focus on instead of being blinded by something such as abortion rights or gay marriage again.

It isn't merely the Iraq war that is mobilizing younger voters back towards the left among white evangelicals. It has to do with their dissatisfaction in general with the past 30 years and what's transpired in the evangelical churches. Image branding has a lot to do with this...particuarly TV evangelists and ultra fundamentalists...who are fewer in number than mainline evangelicals but louder by far, and easy targets for the media based on their own actions. Second, there is a definite mixing of the races in large multicultural mega churches....almost all of which are located in large urban settings...that has brought young white evangelicals into much closer contact with black church thinking on social issues. One only has to attend once or twice someplace like the Potter's House in Dallas, to understand this. Most suburban evangelical churches are separated along racial lines, but mega churches in the inner city are not entirely black or white. Typically these multicultural church setting are roughly 80-90% black...which means that a congregation of 10,000 people might have 1000-2000 whites in it...a sizeable minority and enough to radically alter the balance of political viewpoint based on theological perspective when spread over an entire city. The majority of these white multicultural/mega church goers are young. The fact is...like everywhere else in society, the church is becoming integrated...and that integration is having ripple effects throughout the social and political fabric.

If you choose to think of that as "racism"...more power to ya. It' s merely a fact of demographics and one that is likely to have large implications in the next election.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

First of all, don't put words in my mouth. I said nothing about white evangelicals being "immoral". You need to learn to read. Second, it has nothing to do with hate. Third, you haven't been on this board anywhere near long enough to identify me as a racist. I suggest you use that little search tool and find out what I believe and what I don't before you sling the R word my direction because you look like a fool suggesting this to anyone in here who knows me and what I post about.

Racism has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here. This is a simple matter of two styles of worship and two divergent pathways that mark two distinct types of evangelical church services, both of which eminate from the same essential theology of biblical innerancy, but differ along this critical fault line as it's developed along racial/cultural lines. If you had ever visited a black church, you would know that what I'm saying is 100% correct. Black churches have for hundreds of years in this country identified the social justice/injustice issues...primarily slavery but other things as well...as "morality" issues. White evangelical and fundamentalist protestant churches have over the last 30 years...mostly sinnce the rise of televangelists and the fallout from Roe vs. Wade in 1973...swung to the right side of the political spectrum as they moved away from identifying these issues as moral ones towards a theology that expressed itself politically around a small number of issues like abortion; hence the rise of single issue voters.

A lot of people don't realize that historically the evangelical church was mostly centered to the left politically prior to the rise of people like Jerry Fallwell, who effectively repositioned the moral compass based on their own agendas. Prior to this move a large number of evangelicals considered themselves democrats in this country. The move you are now seeing is merely an adjustment of the pendulum towards what has been the historical position of evangelicalism for a longer period of time than it's existed as it does now.

It's a simple fact that more often than not, since the early 70's white evangelicals have identified these moral issues as "social" problems. You will notice that I did not say that ALL white CHURCHES identify them as such. Classic LIBERAL theology expressed in mainline protestant denominations have in fact also identified issues like race, poverty, political oppression, gender politics, etc...as "moral" issues rather than social ones, and have done so for decades, as have Roman Catholics. It's the white EVANGELICAL churches, including so called "fundamentalism" that has moved away from the historical position the church in general has taken prior to that time, where issues of social justice were seen as part of the greater moral context of society.

It isn't merely the Iraq war that is mobilizing younger voters back towards the left among white evangelicals. It has to do with their dissatisfaction in general with the past 30 years and what's transpired in the evangelical churches. Image branding has a lot to do with this...particuarly TV evangelists and ultra fundamentalists...who are fewer in number than mainline evangelicals but louder by far, and easy targets for the media based on their own actions. Second, there is a definite mixing of the races in large multicultural mega churches....almost all of which are located in large urban settings...that has brought young white evangelicals into much closer contact with black church thinking on social issues. One only has to attend once or twice someplace like the Potter's House in Dallas, to understand this. Most suburban evangelical churches are separated along racial lines, but mega churches in the inner city are not entirely black or white. Typically these multicultural church setting are roughly 80-90% black...which means that a congregation of 10,000 people might have 1000-2000 whites in it...a sizeable minority and enough to radically alter the balance of political viewpoint based on theological perspective when spread over an entire city. The majority of these white multicultural/mega church goers are young. The fact is...like everywhere else in society, the church is becoming integrated...and that integration is having ripple effects throughout the social and political fabric.

If you choose to think of that as "racism"...more power to ya. It' s merely a fact of demographics and one that is likely to have large implications in the next election.

Learn how to read? I read this:

"Single issue voters who hold "morality" by the narrow definition most white evangelicals do ignore the so called "social" issues...war, poverty, racism, injustice, political oppression...etc...as being "moral" issues...but black evangelicals who hold the same theology and view of the Bible, hold these same social issues to also be "moral" in nature"

You clearly distiguish black evangelicals as being more socially conscious than White evangelicals and that whites being exposed to more black evangelicals in these multicultural churches could cultivate a split from the GOP for evangelcials. In turn, I argue that this potential separation from the Repubs is more related to the dissatisfaction with Iraq and all that it entails. I was able to focus on issues--you chose to focus on race. You sir, are racist.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

You clearly distiguish black evangelicals as being more socially conscious than White evangelicals and that whites being exposed to more black evangelicals in these multicultural churches could cultivate a split from the GOP for evangelcials. In turn, I argue that this potential separation from the Repubs is more related to the dissatisfaction with Iraq and all that it entails. I was able to focus on issues--you chose to focus on race. You sir, are racist.

First of all, black evangelicals, on average, ARE more "socially conscious" than white evangelicals, and if you don't know that you're simply ignorant. Second,it isn't "social consciousness" that I'm talking about here. It's how a concept is defined. I did not say "white evangelicals don't care about society". That seem to be what you think I'm saying...it's not. I'm merelly referencing two differing views on what constitutes "morality" and the nature of "moral" questions. One could just as easily argue that black evangelicals were lacking in sensitivity to the abortion issue since they politically subordinate it to other "moral" questions related to racial politics and political justice. One could make that claim because it's (generally) true.

So what?

That has zero to do with this discussion. This discussion is about why young white evangelicals are leaving the political views of the GOP, and if you bothered to read the article you'd have seen that they have other issues besides the war in Iraq.

Part of what I do for a living has to do with forecasting societal trends that impact the relatioship between social and political cause agents...people who do things for particular reasons. Case in point; socaial entrepreneurs (people who use business principles to solve social problems) have the highest buy in factor for volunteerism and are most likely to come from two demographic groups; women and minorities...with the highest of all likely to become social entrepreneurs being minority women business owners. Is that racism? No...it's reality.

Deal with it.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

First of all, black evangelicals, on average, ARE more "socially conscious" than white evangelicals, and if you don't know that you're simply ignorant. Second,it isn't "social consciousness" that I'm talking about here. It's how a concept is defined. I did not say "white evangelicals don't care about society". That seem to be what you think I'm saying...it's not. I'm merelly referencing two differing views on what constitutes "morality" and the nature of "moral" questions. One could just as easily argue that black evangelicals were lacking in sensitivity to the abortion issue since they politically subordinate it to other "moral" questions related to racial politics and political justice. One could make that claim because it's (generally) true.

So what?

That has zero to do with this discussion. This discussion is about why young white evangelicals are leaving the political views of the GOP, and if you bothered to read the article you'd have seen that they have other issues besides the war in Iraq.

Part of what I do for a living has to do with forecasting societal trends that impact the relatioship between social and political cause agents...people who do things for particular reasons. Case in point; socaial entrepreneurs (people who use business principles to solve social problems) have the highest buy in factor for volunteerism and are most likely to come from two demographic groups; women and minorities...with the highest of all likely to become social entrepreneurs being minority women business owners. Is that racism? No...it's reality.

Deal with it.

Blacks and latinos are also more statistically likely to commit violent crimes, commit theft, and drop out of school than their white counterparts. But this sentiment, if expressed by a mainstream media personality would be construed as racist--see Bill O'Reilly. See also the Bell curve regarding intellectual differences among the races which is considered racist but is based upon statistics and projection.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve

You sir, are racist. Young evangelicals are more open minded because of negative experiences that they have had with this horrendous administration, the majority of which comes fro our decision to invade Iraq. The people credited with giving the Bush admin a 2nd term are those who voted on one issue, Gay marriage and they realize that to vote based upon a singular issue is probably not the best way to go.

Regarding minority female business owners, do you not feel that some people may feel as though they want to give back to a society that has given them access to better finance rates/grants and a generally lower threshold to start a business than white males face?

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

So what?

That has zero to do with this discussion. This discussion is about why young white evangelicals are leaving the political views of the GOP, and if you bothered to read the article you'd have seen that they have other issues besides the war in Iraq.

The article is fine--it's your racist commentary that has drawn my ire.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

The article is fine--it's your racist commentary that has drawn my ire.

Who exactly is it you think I am racist towards?

[broncofan7]

White people--as evidenced by your differnetiating of evangelicals based upon RACE!

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

White people--as evidenced by your differnetiating of evangelicals based upon RACE!

I'm white you silly twit. I'm also an evangelical...

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

I'm white you silly twit. I'm also an evangelical...

So is Father Phleger--and he is anti white.-----You are on his level no doubt. It just futher illuminates your ignorance that you would take such a stance. Grow a pair and don't give into political correctness.--you are disgusting.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

So is Father Phleger--and he is anti white.-----You are on his level no doubt. It just futher illuminates your ignorance that you would take such a stance. Grow a pair and don't give into political correctness.--you are disgusting.

My views have nothing to do with political correctness. They're the product of spending the last 12 years researching and observing things I once remained closed minded to, much as you are now. Most things I believe are held in contempt by much of society...I could give a crap.

Second...reporting facts or data and analyzing that information has nothing to do with racism. I'm not interested in whether you like or dislike my conclusions any more than I'm interested in the mind pablum spewed by the corporate media whores on the boob tube. It's fairly obvious you're not able to engage in this conversation within what I would term some kind of baseline understanding that generates common recognition of what words mean and their implications. Hence I consider this essentially a waste of my time.

If you think I'm racists towards whites...that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. It isn't whites that get on my nerves...it's numbskulls.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

My views have nothing to do with political correctness. They're the product of spending the last 12 years researching and observing things I once remained closed minded to, much as you are now. Most things I believe are held in contempt by much of society...I could give a crap.

Second...reporting facts or data and analyzing that information has nothing to do with racism. I'm not interested in whether you like or dislike my conclusions any more than I'm interested in the mind pablum spewed by the corporate media whores on the boob tube. It's fairly obvious you're not able to engage in this conversation within what I would term some kind of baseline understanding that generates common recognition of what words mean and their implications. Hence I consider this essentially a waste of my time.

If you think I'm racists towards whites...that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. It isn't whites that get on my nerves...it's numbskulls.

YOU, and only you, somehow made the distinction that white evangelicals are not as MORAL as Black evangelicals and somehow relayed the intermingling of white people in black led congregations as the source of them becoming more 'MORAL' and hence as to why evangelicals may be leaving the GOP. Where is that mentioned in the article you posted? Where is becoming 'more moral' which leads to more openness towards voting for Obama according to you, in the article that you posted? You make correlations in that overly taxed, wishy -washy mind of yours that simply are not there. Combine that with a racist tenor and what are you? Take another hit, it may clear your mind this time instead of clouding it.

It isn't whites that get on my nerves...it's numbskulls.[COLOR="red"][/COLOR]

another example of YOUR SELF hate.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Second...reporting facts or data and analyzing that information has nothing to do with racism.

I agree, to an extent --but isn't it funny that when statistics come out regarding the crime rates of certain groups, or IQ levels of certain groups, we are hushed into silence by the PC crowd? While the statistics that I am referring to are provided by the FBI and a Harvard educated scientist, you on the other hand are simply a layman relaying his personal prejudices for all to see. There in lies the difference...credibility of the source. I am for people speaking the truth and backing it up with fact, but you sir are not credible.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

YOU, and only you, somehow made the distinction that white evangelicals are not as MORAL as Black evangelicals...

No I didn't. That's what you THINK I'm saying...it's not. How one DEFINES the concept of morality is what I keep talking about here and it's what for some reason you simply can't grasp. If you take issue with what i'm saying, it's merely because you haven't spent time in black churches. I'm not here to tell you or anyone else who is or is not moral...God can handle that on His own. I'm simply here to tell YOU that one group of people DEFINE this concept differently than another.

Got it?

...and somehow relayed the intermingling of white people in black led congregations as the source of them becoming more 'MORAL' and hence as to why evangelicals may be leaving the GOP.

Since the initial premise is wrong, so is this one. Why you are incapable of grasping that "different" does not mean "better" or "worse", qualitatively speaking...is a mystery.

Second...something you've conveniently ignored since it doesn't support your racism thesis...I already told you that white evangelical churches HISTORICALLY had favored a similar view as that of black churches today, AND that OTHER kinds of white churches (mainline Protestants and Catholics) STILL favor this view. But that doesn't jibe with the "you're a racist" crap does it?

Prior to Roe vs. Wade and the invasion of TV evangelists into people's living rooms and the creation of the Moral Majority organization by Jerry Fallwell, a lot of people in these white evangelical churches grew up hearing social justice, racism, poverty, etc...phrased more in terms of moral implications than they do now. The movement of young, white, evangelicals back towards that centrist political spectrum is simply an adjustment.

Maybe your beef is that you can't stand the fact that I'm saying black church theology is what is influencing that movement? That appears to me to be your problem.

Where is that mentioned in the article you posted? Where is becoming 'more moral' which leads to more openness towards voting for Obama according to you, in the article that you posted? You make correlations in that overly taxed, wishy -washy mind of yours that simply are not there. Combine that with a racist tenor and what are you? Take another hit, it may clear your mind this time instead of clouding it.

Are you dense? The first words in this thread are about ME PREDICTING THIS 2 YEARS AGO. No obviously the article does not go into the "why" this is happening. What I'm giving you is the product of my own research on WHY this is happening...something I saw years ago BEFORE it began happening. Unfortunately you're incapable of grasping simple concepts like qualitative value or differentials.

Fine...your problem, not mine.

another example of YOUR SELF hate.

I don't "self hate" you ninny. I like myself JUST FINE thank you very much. Stupid people on the other hand annoy the crap out of me.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Originally Posted by broncofan7

I agree, to an extent --but isn't it funny that when statistics come out regarding the crime rates of certain groups, or IQ levels of certain groups, we are hushed into silence by the PC crowd? While the statistics that I am referring to are provided by the FBI and a Harvard educated scientist, you on the other hand are simply a layman relaying his personal prejudices for all to see.

I'm not a layman.

There in lies the difference...credibility of the source. I am for people speaking the truth and backing it up with fact, but you sir are not credible.

Credibility isn't something you're familiar with.

[mhgaffney]

I have been much more impressed with the black ministers -- examples: Martin Luther King, Rev, Bishop Tutu, Rev. Wright -- than with their white counterparts.

The black ministers have been more more courageous in identifying the source of the world's biggest problem: the growth of US fascism and militarism -- and the horroble consequences for the rest of the world.

The black ministers have also seen through the lying rhetoric about poor little Israel, the victim of countless attacks by the bigger and stronger Arab states. That worn out lie of a mantra don't hunt no more.

As for the new crop of white evangelicals --- so long as they are merely mouthing slogans -- what's the diff?

Only a spiritual revolution can save us.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

I'm not a layman.

Credibility isn't something you're familiar with.

Countless numbers of patients would beg to differ.

For you to continue to deny that your previous comments are racist and to try and spin them as something else (IE relative morality) leads me to believe that you are so truly blinded by your own blabbering chatter that you will never be open to a suggestion that it is anything but, despite 2 sound examples as to why your comments were racist and condescending.

[broncofan7]

Originally Posted by footstepsfrom#27

Are you dense? The first words in this thread are about ME PREDICTING THIS 2 YEARS AGO. No obviously the article does not go into the "why" this is happening. What I'm giving you is the product of my own research on WHY this is happening...something I saw years ago BEFORE it began happening. Unfortunately you're incapable of grasping simple concepts like qualitative value or differentials.


.

My whole point in responding to your post was that your own 'research' and I use that term VERRRRRYYYYY loosely, is completely flawed and based upon a racist principle that was fully explained in my previous posts! Qualitatively speaking, your conclusion is garbage and is as convoluted as the traffic on 360! Hopefully, your day job is not based upon your 'qualitative', ahem, ahem .... thinking abilities.....

[elsid13]

Originally Posted by Spider

Oh Yeah , the god squad is aiming for higher goals ..........

Your just mad, because now you won't have anyone to fight.