Moment of Truth in Iraq

[Bronx33]

Link

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Pentagon institute calls Iraq war 'a major debacle' with outcome 'in doubt'

By Jonathan S. Landay and John Walcott, McClatchy Newspapers 2 hours, 35 minutes ago

WASHINGTON — The war in Iraq has become "a major debacle" and the outcome "is in doubt" despite improvements in security from the buildup in U.S. forces, according to a highly critical study published Thursday by the Pentagon's premier military educational institute.

The report released by the National Defense University raises fresh doubts about President Bush 's projections of a U.S. victory in Iraq just a week after Bush announced that he was suspending U.S. troop reductions.

The report carries considerable weight because it was written by Joseph Collins , a former senior Pentagon official, and was based in part on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations.

It was published by the university's National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research center.

"Measured in blood and treasure, the war in Iraq has achieved the status of a major war and a major debacle," says the report's opening line.

Continues:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20...latchy/2913186

To read the report:
www.ndu.edu/inss/Occasional_Papers/OP5.pdf

[Dukes]

Gotta love the doom and gloom crowd

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Dukes

Gotta love the doom and gloom crowd

Guess you missed this part:

The report released by the National Defense University raises fresh doubts about President Bush 's projections of a U.S. victory in Iraq just a week after Bush announced that he was suspending U.S. troop reductions.

The report carries considerable weight because it was written by Joseph Collins , a former senior Pentagon official, and was based in part on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations.

It was published by the university's National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research center.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Check this out from page 3...to bad Bush didn't ask his dad what to do:

While we hoped that a popular revolt or coup would topple
Saddam, neither the United States nor the countries of the
region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were
concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head
of the Gulf. Breaking up the Iraqi state would pose its own
destabilizing problems. . . . Trying to eliminate Saddam,
extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would
have violated our guideline about not changing objectives
in midstream, engaging in “mission creep,” and would have
incurred incalculable human and political costs. . . . We would
have been forced to occupy Baghdad, and, in effect, rule Iraq.
The coalition would instantly have collapsed. . . . Under those
circumstances, there was no viable “exit strategy” we could see,
violating another of our principles. . . . Going in and occupying
Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations’ mandate,
would have destroyed the precedent of international response to
aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion
route, the United States could conceivably still [in 1998] be an

occupying power in a bitterly hostile land.

--statement from former President George H.W. Bush with his National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft in 1998 on why the US didn't pursue Sadaam in the Gulf War

[Rohirrim]

Whether the message of the above posted book is true or not is besides the point. I know, as a former infantryman, that our soldiers are once again going far beyond the call in their efforts on the ground, as always. But while they struggle to "fix" Iraq, our own country falls. In other words, our global strategy is weakened by every day we remain in Iraq. Our global economic position (which represents our "true" power) is being eaten away by the cancer of Iraq. Our domestic tranquility is damaged and our future as a people is put in hock by Iraq. All of that money being poured into Iraq is on loan from China and Saudi Arabia. We bankrupt our future to benefit Iraq. Our entire military dangles by a thread.

Every month, thirty billion dollars goes from securing the general welfare of our people to trying to patch something together in Iraq. We've been there longer than WWII and we still can't keep the electricity on for more than 4 hours a day. Meanwhile, our own infrastructure crumbles. IMO, if you want to find a symbol for what the Iraq debacle has meant to America, look to that bridge collapse in Minneapolis.

Hopefully, our future presidents will realize that our Constitution dictates that we do all our "nation building" here at home, not abroad. George Bush ran on that promise, but of course, he lied.

[Bronx33]

Typical LA he got an artical from some clowns that NEVER SET FOOT IN IRAQ let alone go in as an inbed reporter (read the book) then post not the other way around.


Ps: this thread was to make people aware yons book was available (not a political statement) but you attacked it anyways with another stupid artical that supports your (point of view) man don't you ever get tired of being a douche?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Typical LA he got an artical(sic) from some clowns that NEVER SET FOOT IN IRAQ let alone go in as an inbed reporter....

It's not an "article" - it's an official Pentagon report:

The report carries considerable weight because it was written by Joseph Collins , a former senior Pentagon official, and was based in part on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations.

It was published by the university's National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research center.

Originally Posted by Bronx33

Ps: this thread was to make people aware yons book was available (not a political statement) but you attacked it anyways with another stupid artical(sic) that supports your (point of view) man don't you ever get tired of being a douche?

Anyone who challenges the false picture of Iraq you are trying to paint is a "douche," apparently.

By your reasoning, the aforementioned senior defense and intelligence officials who planned the war are "douches" too.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Dukes

Gotta love the doom and gloom crowd

huh ?

Typical LA he got an artical from some clowns that NEVER SET FOOT IN IRAQ let alone go in as an inbed reporter (read the book) then post not the other way around.

? DO you play chess ? a reporter could be romancing the sheets with Gary Kasperov , covering every game he plays , and still not understand what he is seeing or reporting ..........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Spider

huh ?

? DO you play chess ? a reporter could be romancing the sheets with Gary Kasperov , covering every game he plays , and still not understand what he is seeing or reporting ..........

There should be a law against voting while stupid, huh?

We're all paying the price for the willful ignorance of simpletons like this guy.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[Bronx33]

And theres the problem i just wonder is those reporting are democrats or republican have they set foot in the war zone yes or no... ( you catching on yet?)

not an "article" - it's an official Pentagon repo

rt:


Just continue on in your own world and avoid the book that doesn't support your agenda put your blinders on and stock up on bush cartoons and spoon feed articals sand bag your house shut off any outside source of info. (keep on keepin on) douche bag.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

And theres the problem i just wonder is those reporting are democrats or republican have they set foot in the war zone yes or no... ( you catching on yet?)


.

So you say this guy has a clue ? cause he has been there ?
so why didnt you apply this same logic with Kerry and Bush ? after all Kerry was there in Nam , Bush wasnt , so when it came to war Kerry was clearly better then Bush .. or do you just support this guy cause he has the same opinion as you do ?

[Bronx33]

For the love of god it's like conversing with cinder blocks, god forbid a person provide a another angle from somebody that (is there) but sadly it's shot down before some even give it a chance. Heres the thing spider i never said anything about LAs responses i never said they were right or wrong i merely posted a link to a book from an embed (who is there) he has amazing insight which some seem to disregard because it doesn't go with there agenda. Yon doesn't have an agenda as a writer he tells it like it is ( like people) providing important information are suppose to do you would know this if you had read anyone of the many links i posted it's clear you read none of them. You guys clearly don't like bush (neither do i) but you are willing to accept information (from a goverment) source and say it's the truth without a doubt (i don't trust it) all i did was give another source and i have zero agenda it doesn't reflect my opinion whatsoever. If you choose to read it fine if your don't (that's your loss) cause it's has some great information.

[Dudeskey]

Originally Posted by Dukes

Gotta love the doom and gloom crowd

Dude, you're so totally right... If only more people listed to Hannity

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

For the love of god it's like conversing with cinder blocks, god forbid a person provide a another angle from somebody that (is there) but sadly it's shot down before some even give it a chance. Heres the thing spider i never said anything about LAs responses i never said they were right or wrong i merely posted a link to a book from an embed (who is there) he has amazing insight which some seem to disregard because it doesn't go with there agenda. Yon doesn't have an agenda as a writer he tells it like it is ( like people) providing important information are suppose to do you would know this if you had read anyone of the many links i posted it's clear you read none of them. You guys clearly don't like bush (neither do i) but you are willing to accept information (from a goverment) source and say it's the truth without a doubt (i don't trust it) all i did was give another source and i have zero agenda it doesn't reflect my opinion whatsoever. If you choose to read it fine if your don't (that's your loss) cause it's has some great information.

It isnt about my like or dislike of Bush , thats established , but what it is about is the troops ....... Now the pentagon despite all of its short commings, Knows damn well if things are going well in Iraq or not , just like the chess analogy I used , he could be reporting on what he thinks he sees , but doesnt understand , Rook to Queen 4 check , doesnt mean checkmate .......or Pawn to king 4 , Knight to queen Bishop 3 ( aka e4-Nc5) is a Sicilian defense , but damn if the reporter knows the strategy ........But instead of Game pieces ,we are talking about human lives in Iraq

[Bronx33]

You understand where iam coming from then? i post (another) source of info and all i get from douchebag LA is crap about bush if anybody is missing the point (it's him) if your unwilling to even read the material set in from of you (but) take the time to post something totally irrelevant which hes does with everbody around here. I just find it totally funny that he runs around calling everybody stupid when hes obviously the one who is. To tell you the truth i really didn't expect any posts on this thread then doucheboy takes it as a political statement and opens his stupid bush jgp files and easy to reach pentagon bullshyt. (it just boggles the mind)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

You understand where iam coming from then? i post (another) source of info and all i get from douchebag LA is crap about bush if anybody is missing the point (it's him) if your unwilling to even read the material set in from of you (but) take the time to post something totally irrelevant which hes does with everbody around here. I just find it totally funny that he runs around calling everybody stupid when hes obviously the one who is. To tell you the truth i really didn't expect any posts on this thread then doucheboy takes it as a political statement and opens his stupid bush jgp files and easy to reach pentagon bullshyt. (it just boggles the mind)

I posted a report released by the National Defense University, written by a former senior Pentagon official, based in part on interviews with other former senior defense and intelligence officials who played roles in prewar preparations, published by the university's National Institute for Strategic Studies, a Defense Department research center which calls the Iraq war a "major debacle" with the "outcome in doubt."

All you can do is respond with the usual name-calling, personal attacks, and desperate attempts to put a positive spin on Bush's Iraq debacle with someone's personal anecdotes.

Truly pathetic!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Spider

It isnt about my like or dislike of Bush , thats established , but what it is about is the troops ....... Now the pentagon despite all of its short commings, Knows damn well if things are going well in Iraq or not , just like the chess analogy I used , he could be reporting on what he thinks he sees , but doesnt understand , Rook to Queen 4 check , doesnt mean checkmate .......or Pawn to king 4 , Knight to queen Bishop 3 ( aka e4-Nc5) is a Sicilian defense , but damn if the reporter knows the strategy ........But instead of Game pieces ,we are talking about human lives in Iraq

You have senior Pentagon officials, defense and intelligence officials who planned the war calling it a "debacle" in an official report, and Bronx33 ignores this!

The lengths to which BushCo/Iraq war supporters go in their attempts to save face are absolutely mind-boggling sometimes.

[Bronx33]

Remember douchebag bushies team is done (people want to keep their jobs) so why not pander to the next sissy****.


The lengths to which BushCo/Iraq war supporters go in their attempts to save face are absolutely mind-boggling sometimes.


And this statement undermines everything you're trying to accomplish here.



Iam an independent and have been since 1983 i have told you about a hundred times and you still don't get it one things for sure though (you're a douchebag) of epic proportions with no end in sight.

[Spider]

I wouldnt call LABF a douche bag ..... He is very passionate about his views , and to be brutaly honest if more people were as passionate as he is , this country wouldnt be ran by lobbyist

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Spider

I wouldnt call LABF a douche bag ..... He is very passionate about his views , and to be brutaly honest if more people were as passionate as he is , this country wouldnt be ran by lobbyist

He wears blinders (end of story)

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

He wears blinders (end of story)

ok ...... lets prove it ... Name some of the things republicans have done for the working man over the last 12 years

[Bronx33]

Originally Posted by Spider

ok ...... lets prove it ... Name some of the things republicans have done for the working man over the last 12 years

I don't care the fact i saw him bring out his ghey jpgs on this thread ended it.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bronx33

I don't care the fact i saw him bring out his ghey jpgs on this thread ended it.

and who is wearing the blinders ?