What a mess! Anyone (attempt to) fly American Airlines this week? - The Orange Mane

Sassy · 04-10-2008, 05:55 PM

By HARRY R. WEBER, AP Business Writer
1 hour, 35 minutes ago

ATLANTA - Another day and hundreds more flights grounded. The financial toll and loss of goodwill among travelers from the debacle that spread further Thursday beyond American Airlines' massive cancellations could be severe — on an industry already reeling from high fuel costs.

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Lawmakers were asking questions and some fed-up air travelers headed for trains. Others gave the airlines a pass, saying the companies were doing the best they could.

"I'm really upset, but I'm trying to keep a positive attitude for the sake of my children and my husband, who's wandering around looking for us," said Rainie Nelson, a 39-year-old from Park Ridge, Ill., who was stranded at Chicago O'Hare International Airport with a toddler and an infant while on their way to Palm Springs, Calif.

Of American employees, she said, "There is no point in yelling at them. It's not their fault. So, I'm going to be as nice as I can be."

Mingo Valencia, a 60-year-old stuck at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport while heading home to Midland, Texas, wasn't so gracious.

"Poor management," he said bluntly.

Congress also weighed in Thursday. The FAA official who ordered the audits last month, Nicholas Sabatini, faced tough questions from a Senate subcommittee about the agency's lax oversight of airlines and his own accountability for recent breakdowns. The FAA noted that airlines had 18 months to complete the work on the MD-80s since the initial order was issued in September 2006.

American, a unit of Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp., had canceled nearly 2,500 flights this week as of Thursday due to the safety inspections of its MD-80 aircraft following an FAA warning, and said an unspecified number of additional cancellations were expected through Saturday.

Alaska Airlines, Midwest Airlines and Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines joined the wave, each canceling a small number of flights on MD-80 aircraft on Thursday.

Roughly 250,000 passengers have been affected by the American cancellations this week alone.

Other carriers like Continental Airlines, JetBlue Airways, AirTran Airways and Northwest Airlines said they passed the first round of FAA audits with a clean slate and did not expect extra maintenance work or flight delays. It was impossible to say whether that could change since the FAA is conducting another round of safety audits.

The cancellations come at a time of high fuel prices and mixed success among the major air carriers at getting domestic fare increases to stick. The fact that airplanes are flying very full is making it difficult for airlines that cancel flights to find empty seats on other carriers to rebook their passengers.

"This disruption is severe," said Webster O'Brien, an industry expert with aviation consulting firm Simat, Helliesen & Eichner. "People are going to be unhappy. There isn't going to be an easy way to walk everybody out of it."

American CEO Gerard Arpey said Thursday that the cancellations will cost the airline "in the tens of millions of dollars." Analysts say the toll could easily be that, and perhaps much more.

Besides lost revenue from the canceled flights, American also was giving $500 travel vouchers to an unspecified number of inconvenienced passengers and putting some travelers up in hotels. There also could be transportation costs to and from hotels, extra overtime for employees and the long-term costs of losing goodwill among customers.

American spokeswoman Andrea Huguely said the cost probably wouldn't be known until Saturday night, when the carrier expects to have all its MD-80s back in service.

The cost to other airlines also was unclear, and the pain could continue, analysts said.

"Just given the level of scrutiny, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more cancellations and groundings at other airlines," said Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley.

He said the disruption was worse than some major storms that have affected large airline hubs.

"The costs are fairly substantial," Baggaley said. "Given that the cancellations have been spread among a number of carriers, this will make it harder for airlines to turn around and try to raise fares, particularly in the weakening economy. It does indeed come at a bad time."

Some travelers looked for other modes of transportation.

Amtrak has seen a spike in passengers since the flight cancellations began earlier in the week, especially in the Northeast, spokesman Cliff Cole said.

"Our ridership was heavy yesterday, is heavy today and is likely to be heavy tomorrow, based on our reservations," Cole said Thursday.

Greyhound Lines Inc. spokesman Eric Wesley said he was unsure whether demand had increased because many bus customers buy tickets at the last minute.

At the Minneapolis airport, meanwhile, Tammy Kennedy of Indianapolis was frustrated by the American Airlines situation.

"First it was on, then it was canceled, then it was on again, then we got in the plane and sat on the runway in Chicago for an hour," she said Thursday of her flight to Minneapolis.

She said the flight caused her to run late for a meeting.

"I probably won't fly American again," Kennedy said.

Arpey took responsibility for the cancellations, saying neither the airline's mechanics nor the Federal Aviation Administration were to blame.
They had 18 months to take care of it and now it's costing millions of dollars!

baja · 04-10-2008, 06:03 PM

Another piece of the 'Perfect Storm".

BroncoMatt · 04-10-2008, 06:43 PM

Pretty sure the answer to the question in the title of the thread is no, nobody has flown on American this week

Popps · 04-10-2008, 06:47 PM

I have family flying in on American tomorrow night. Supposedly, they're one of the lucky ones that are in a plane not subject to any issues....

we'll see.

mhgaffney · 04-10-2008, 07:44 PM

No. I flew last week on United.

But no matter.

The profit margin of the Airline industry is razor thin in the best of times. These are the worst of times. Three different Airlines went under last week -- due to the current high cost of jet fuel. (Nor will this turn around.)

Expect worse days ahead.

broncofan2438 · 04-10-2008, 07:46 PM

sucks

Sassy · 04-10-2008, 07:49 PM

We don't even have American here...only Delta (who just cut their service here to Salt Lake), Northwest, United and Allegiant Air (only to Vegas and Phoenix).

Los Broncos · 04-10-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy

We don't even have American here...only Delta (who just cut their service here to Salt Lake), Northwest, United and Allegiant Air (only to Vegas and Phoenix).

I just heard today they cut Denver as well, sucks.

Sassy · 04-10-2008, 07:57 PM

Delta cut Denver?
We have NW through Minny and United goes through Denver or to Chicago (no stops)...Delta flew to Salt Lake and out...

Los Broncos · 04-10-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy

Delta cut Denver?
We have NW through Minny and United goes through Denver or to Chicago (no stops)...Delta flew to Salt Lake and out...

Sorry Sassy, you cant fly to Denver any longer, may have to thumb it.

Sassy · 04-10-2008, 08:01 PM

Delta never flew to Denver from Fargo...Only NW and United fly to Denver from here...United Direct...NW to Minny then to Denver. I love that United flight...I can be in Denver in an hour and 45.

Los Broncos · 04-10-2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassy

Delta never flew to Denver from Fargo...Only NW and United fly to Denver from here...United Direct...NW to Minny then to Denver. I love that United flight...I can be in Denver in an hour and 45.

Yeah, all flights are cut forever, now enough fuel for planes.

Hitch hike with Bronco gear on, believe it!

OABB · 04-10-2008, 08:09 PM

damn democrats.

baja · 04-10-2008, 08:21 PM

And these are the best of times compared to the near future.

footstepsfrom#27 · 04-10-2008, 08:59 PM

My step daughter works the front desk at a major hotel near AA's DFW hub and she says they have over 300 stranded AA passengers there with the airline footing the bill. They're all in a bad mood. If I had AA tickets I'd be looking for something else.

theAPAOps5 · 04-10-2008, 10:55 PM

Delta has not cut flights into Denver. I don't know where that dumb rumor is coming from.

Second of all this is nothing to do with the mythical "perfect storm" this has to do more with the FAA being in bed with the airlines. This "perfect storm" that Baja is going on about is financial.

Third Ghaff mentions that 3 airlines went out of business. Lets look closely at these 3 airlines.

Champion Air: They are a seasonal charter destination company. They fly around on Boeing 727's. Thats the equivalent of Ford Model A these days. I wouldn't call them an airline.

Aloha Air: They were struggling long before oil shot up. They were going down the tubes no matter what.

Skybus Airlines: This company was the worst managed company in the airline industry. They actually sold tickets for something like $27.00. Their business model was flawed.

ATA Airlines: This is more of a big deal. They were a big time military charter operator and the military pulled out of the negotiation. That sudden loss of cash was too much.

Now lets look at Southwest Airlines. They just made news because they have some bad investments they are going to have to eat. Thats to a sum of $341M. No sweat they have 3 Billion, yes Billion in reserve cash on hand.

The big players in American Aviation won't be going anywhere. United, American, Delta, US Air, Northwest, Continental will be around through this mess.

Its the low cost carriers that are going to suffer. Watch out for Frontier. Their stock is below $2.00 and they are getting their ass kicked by Southwest. They are in trouble. They just had to sell off 4 planes to reduce costs and free up cash.

This is just another period of weeding out. It happened after deregulation and again a few times since. Remember PanAm and TWA. Yeah I bet if forums were around when they went under the fearful would be freaking out. Now they were just a blip on the Radar.

theAPAOps5 · 04-10-2008, 11:06 PM

Another thing is the MD-80 and the Boeing 737 are the two most common jets in the Commercial Aviation arean. So when an "oversight" like this happens its going to ding a lot of people. American flies the most MD-80s out of any carrier with 275. Thats why its affecting them so bad.

A lot of industry experts are saying there are more groundings to come. The FAA has a lot of egg on their face because they turned a blind eye and bullied their employees who were trying to do their job and reprimand air carriers for these oversights.

Has Been · 04-10-2008, 11:07 PM

I just arrived home today after waiting 40 hours in Dallas. Cost for my delays is $737.00. Hotel, meals, cab, & switching airlines. It Was Bad! AA is HORRIBLE in giving timely information.

Bob's your Information Minister · 04-10-2008, 11:13 PM

I'm a strange cat. I love flying. Even on cattle cars like Southwest. It's just plain fun.

I think it's because I used to fly every summer from Scotland to America when I was kid, for like 10 years straight.

Sassy · 04-10-2008, 11:14 PM

The worst time I ever had was at O'Hare on my way to Rochester...bumped me...no other available flights until 6:20 that night (was at O'Hare at 6 am and was suppose to fly out at 9 am) and then they had mechanical problems...I was at O'Hare for 12 hours...nothing compared to what AA customers are going through but it still sucked. I did get cut a check by United for $400 (or I could have any flight) right then and there. They said that that never happens...where they cut the check right there...there were six of us that kept running into each other trying to get on standby...but they were full...we opted to drink instead

azbroncfan · 04-10-2008, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

Another thing is the MD-80 and the Boeing 737 are the two most common jets in the Commercial Aviation arean.

That's not correct. There are more 757's, A320/21/19's, and CRJ's than Mad dogs.

azbroncfan · 04-10-2008, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

The big players in American Aviation won't be going anywhere. United, American, Delta, US Air, Northwest, Continental will be around through this mess.

I wouldn't be so sure about United as they are the worst run Legacy out there and I'll bet they merge with another carrier such as Continental. They used to be a great company 10 years ago but not anymore they are clearly the worst Legacy airline around.

cutthemdown · 04-11-2008, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azbroncfan

That's not correct. There are more 757's, A320/21/19's, and CRJ's than Mad dogs.

American fly's more md-80 then anyone though.

azbroncfan · 04-11-2008, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

American fly's more md-80 then anyone though.

Well yeah since they are the only one other than Delta to even fly them out of the Legacy's. I never said they didn't fly the majority of them as they are obsolete if American doesn't have so many of them. I just pointing out that the MD 80/90's are not the #2 aircraft flown in commercial aviation as someone else said. They aren't even 2, 3, or 4.

Jetmeck · 04-11-2008, 12:55 AM

Calling the once number ONE airline TWA a blip on the radar clearly is a joke.
There were ten changes to this AD (AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVE) regarding this wire bundle. This wire bundle WAS NOT a safety issue it is just a repercussion of the FAA screwup allowed at Southwest a few weeks back. They are now flexing their muscle a bit to make the public believe they are in control. The scary part to me is FBO operations which are airlines having major work done on their aircraft overseas with little to no oversight by the FAA. This is ludicrous.

04-10-2008, 05:55 PM	#1
Sassy Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: ND Posts: 37,952 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	What a mess! Anyone (attempt to) fly American Airlines this week? By HARRY R. WEBER, AP Business Writer 1 hour, 35 minutes ago ATLANTA - Another day and hundreds more flights grounded. The financial toll and loss of goodwill among travelers from the debacle that spread further Thursday beyond American Airlines' massive cancellations could be severe — on an industry already reeling from high fuel costs. ADVERTISEMENT Lawmakers were asking questions and some fed-up air travelers headed for trains. Others gave the airlines a pass, saying the companies were doing the best they could. "I'm really upset, but I'm trying to keep a positive attitude for the sake of my children and my husband, who's wandering around looking for us," said Rainie Nelson, a 39-year-old from Park Ridge, Ill., who was stranded at Chicago O'Hare International Airport with a toddler and an infant while on their way to Palm Springs, Calif. Of American employees, she said, "There is no point in yelling at them. It's not their fault. So, I'm going to be as nice as I can be." Mingo Valencia, a 60-year-old stuck at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport while heading home to Midland, Texas, wasn't so gracious. "Poor management," he said bluntly. Congress also weighed in Thursday. The FAA official who ordered the audits last month, Nicholas Sabatini, faced tough questions from a Senate subcommittee about the agency's lax oversight of airlines and his own accountability for recent breakdowns. The FAA noted that airlines had 18 months to complete the work on the MD-80s since the initial order was issued in September 2006. American, a unit of Fort Worth, Texas-based AMR Corp., had canceled nearly 2,500 flights this week as of Thursday due to the safety inspections of its MD-80 aircraft following an FAA warning, and said an unspecified number of additional cancellations were expected through Saturday. Alaska Airlines, Midwest Airlines and Atlanta-based Delta Air Lines joined the wave, each canceling a small number of flights on MD-80 aircraft on Thursday. Roughly 250,000 passengers have been affected by the American cancellations this week alone. Other carriers like Continental Airlines, JetBlue Airways, AirTran Airways and Northwest Airlines said they passed the first round of FAA audits with a clean slate and did not expect extra maintenance work or flight delays. It was impossible to say whether that could change since the FAA is conducting another round of safety audits. The cancellations come at a time of high fuel prices and mixed success among the major air carriers at getting domestic fare increases to stick. The fact that airplanes are flying very full is making it difficult for airlines that cancel flights to find empty seats on other carriers to rebook their passengers. "This disruption is severe," said Webster O'Brien, an industry expert with aviation consulting firm Simat, Helliesen & Eichner. "People are going to be unhappy. There isn't going to be an easy way to walk everybody out of it." American CEO Gerard Arpey said Thursday that the cancellations will cost the airline "in the tens of millions of dollars." Analysts say the toll could easily be that, and perhaps much more. Besides lost revenue from the canceled flights, American also was giving $500 travel vouchers to an unspecified number of inconvenienced passengers and putting some travelers up in hotels. There also could be transportation costs to and from hotels, extra overtime for employees and the long-term costs of losing goodwill among customers. American spokeswoman Andrea Huguely said the cost probably wouldn't be known until Saturday night, when the carrier expects to have all its MD-80s back in service. The cost to other airlines also was unclear, and the pain could continue, analysts said. "Just given the level of scrutiny, it wouldn't surprise me if there were more cancellations and groundings at other airlines," said Standard & Poor's analyst Philip Baggaley. He said the disruption was worse than some major storms that have affected large airline hubs. "The costs are fairly substantial," Baggaley said. "Given that the cancellations have been spread among a number of carriers, this will make it harder for airlines to turn around and try to raise fares, particularly in the weakening economy. It does indeed come at a bad time." Some travelers looked for other modes of transportation. Amtrak has seen a spike in passengers since the flight cancellations began earlier in the week, especially in the Northeast, spokesman Cliff Cole said. "Our ridership was heavy yesterday, is heavy today and is likely to be heavy tomorrow, based on our reservations," Cole said Thursday. Greyhound Lines Inc. spokesman Eric Wesley said he was unsure whether demand had increased because many bus customers buy tickets at the last minute. At the Minneapolis airport, meanwhile, Tammy Kennedy of Indianapolis was frustrated by the American Airlines situation. "First it was on, then it was canceled, then it was on again, then we got in the plane and sat on the runway in Chicago for an hour," she said Thursday of her flight to Minneapolis. She said the flight caused her to run late for a meeting. "I probably won't fly American again," Kennedy said. Arpey took responsibility for the cancellations, saying neither the airline's mechanics nor the Federal Aviation Administration were to blame. They had 18 months to take care of it and now it's costing millions of dollars! Last edited by Sassy; 04-10-2008 at 08:10 PM..

04-10-2008, 10:55 PM	#16
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,058 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	Delta has not cut flights into Denver. I don't know where that dumb rumor is coming from. Second of all this is nothing to do with the mythical "perfect storm" this has to do more with the FAA being in bed with the airlines. This "perfect storm" that Baja is going on about is financial. Third Ghaff mentions that 3 airlines went out of business. Lets look closely at these 3 airlines. Champion Air: They are a seasonal charter destination company. They fly around on Boeing 727's. Thats the equivalent of Ford Model A these days. I wouldn't call them an airline. Aloha Air: They were struggling long before oil shot up. They were going down the tubes no matter what. Skybus Airlines: This company was the worst managed company in the airline industry. They actually sold tickets for something like $27.00. Their business model was flawed. ATA Airlines: This is more of a big deal. They were a big time military charter operator and the military pulled out of the negotiation. That sudden loss of cash was too much. Now lets look at Southwest Airlines. They just made news because they have some bad investments they are going to have to eat. Thats to a sum of $341M. No sweat they have 3 Billion, yes Billion in reserve cash on hand. The big players in American Aviation won't be going anywhere. United, American, Delta, US Air, Northwest, Continental will be around through this mess. Its the low cost carriers that are going to suffer. Watch out for Frontier. Their stock is below $2.00 and they are getting their ass kicked by Southwest. They are in trouble. They just had to sell off 4 planes to reduce costs and free up cash. This is just another period of weeding out. It happened after deregulation and again a few times since. Remember PanAm and TWA. Yeah I bet if forums were around when they went under the fearful would be freaking out. Now they were just a blip on the Radar. Last edited by theAPAOps5; 04-10-2008 at 10:59 PM..

04-10-2008, 11:14 PM	#20
Sassy Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: ND Posts: 37,952 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	The worst time I ever had was at O'Hare on my way to Rochester...bumped me...no other available flights until 6:20 that night (was at O'Hare at 6 am and was suppose to fly out at 9 am) and then they had mechanical problems...I was at O'Hare for 12 hours...nothing compared to what AA customers are going through but it still sucked. I did get cut a check by United for $400 (or I could have any flight) right then and there. They said that that never happens...where they cut the check right there...there were six of us that kept running into each other trying to get on standby...but they were full...we opted to drink instead Last edited by Sassy; 04-10-2008 at 11:19 PM..

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04-10-2008, 06:03 PM	#2
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,921 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	Another piece of the 'Perfect Storm".

04-10-2008, 06:43 PM	#3
BroncoMatt The Blizzard Man Check My Style Out Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 1,559	Pretty sure the answer to the question in the title of the thread is no, nobody has flown on American this week

04-10-2008, 06:47 PM	#4
Popps TEAM FIRST. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 29,786	I have family flying in on American tomorrow night. Supposedly, they're one of the lucky ones that are in a plane not subject to any issues.... we'll see.

04-10-2008, 07:44 PM	#5
mhgaffney Ring of Famer Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 9,780	No. I flew last week on United. But no matter. The profit margin of the Airline industry is razor thin in the best of times. These are the worst of times. Three different Airlines went under last week -- due to the current high cost of jet fuel. (Nor will this turn around.) Expect worse days ahead.

04-10-2008, 07:46 PM	#6
broncofan2438 Faneco this... LETS TAKE BACK THE AFC WEST Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California Posts: 6,302 Adopt-a-Bronco: ERIC DECKER	sucks

04-10-2008, 07:49 PM	#7
Sassy Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: ND Posts: 37,952 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	We don't even have American here...only Delta (who just cut their service here to Salt Lake), Northwest, United and Allegiant Air (only to Vegas and Phoenix).

04-10-2008, 07:57 PM	#9
Sassy Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: ND Posts: 37,952 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	Delta cut Denver? We have NW through Minny and United goes through Denver or to Chicago (no stops)...Delta flew to Salt Lake and out...

04-10-2008, 08:01 PM	#11
Sassy Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2001 Location: ND Posts: 37,952 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	Delta never flew to Denver from Fargo...Only NW and United fly to Denver from here...United Direct...NW to Minny then to Denver. I love that United flight...I can be in Denver in an hour and 45.

04-10-2008, 08:09 PM	#13
OABB Master of Karate aaahaaaaaaaaah Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Los angeles Posts: 7,132 Adopt-a-Bronco: tgnsmyb****	damn democrats.

04-10-2008, 08:21 PM	#14
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,921 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	And these are the best of times compared to the near future.

04-10-2008, 08:59 PM	#15
footstepsfrom#27 helmet to helmet hitter Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Arlington, TX Posts: 16,117 Adopt-a-Bronco: Joe Mays	My step daughter works the front desk at a major hotel near AA's DFW hub and she says they have over 300 stranded AA passengers there with the airline footing the bill. They're all in a bad mood. If I had AA tickets I'd be looking for something else.

04-10-2008, 11:06 PM	#17
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,058 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	Another thing is the MD-80 and the Boeing 737 are the two most common jets in the Commercial Aviation arean. So when an "oversight" like this happens its going to ding a lot of people. American flies the most MD-80s out of any carrier with 275. Thats why its affecting them so bad. A lot of industry experts are saying there are more groundings to come. The FAA has a lot of egg on their face because they turned a blind eye and bullied their employees who were trying to do their job and reprimand air carriers for these oversights.

04-10-2008, 11:07 PM	#18
Has Been Just Drafted 2005 National Distinguished Principal Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Southern Colorado Posts: 29	I just arrived home today after waiting 40 hours in Dallas. Cost for my delays is $737.00. Hotel, meals, cab, & switching airlines. It Was Bad! AA is HORRIBLE in giving timely information.

04-10-2008, 11:13 PM	#19
Bob's your Information Minister Chiefs > Broncos Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 25,921 Adopt-a-Bronco: CHRIS KUPER!!!	I'm a strange cat. I love flying. Even on cattle cars like Southwest. It's just plain fun. I think it's because I used to fly every summer from Scotland to America when I was kid, for like 10 years straight.

04-11-2008, 12:55 AM	#25
Jetmeck Not a Chief's board Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 5,385	Calling the once number ONE airline TWA a blip on the radar clearly is a joke. There were ten changes to this AD (AIRWORTHINESS DIRECTIVE) regarding this wire bundle. This wire bundle WAS NOT a safety issue it is just a repercussion of the FAA screwup allowed at Southwest a few weeks back. They are now flexing their muscle a bit to make the public believe they are in control. The scary part to me is FBO operations which are airlines having major work done on their aircraft overseas with little to no oversight by the FAA. This is ludicrous.