Clinton To Target *Pledged* Delegates

[frerottenextelway]

The only thing she's going to accomplish is ruining her policital future and the Clinton's legacy.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8583.html

Clinton targets pledged delegates

By: Roger Simon
Feb 19, 2008 05:48 AM EST

Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign intends to go after delegates whom Barack Obama has already won in the caucuses and primaries if she needs them to win the nomination.

This strategy was confirmed to me by a high-ranking Clinton official on Monday. And I am not talking about superdelegates, those 795 party big shots who are not pledged to anybody. I am talking about getting pledged delegates to switch sides.

What? Isn’t that impossible? A pledged delegate is pledged to a particular candidate and cannot switch, right?

Wrong.

Pledged delegates are not really pledged at all, not even on the first ballot. This has been an open secret in the party for years, but it has never really mattered because there has almost always been a clear victor by the time the convention convened.

But not this time. This time, one candidate may enter the convention leading by just a few pledged delegates, and those delegates may find themselves being promised the sun, moon and stars to switch sides.

“I swear it is not happening now, but as we get closer to the convention, if it is a stalemate, everybody will be going after everybody’s delegates,” a senior Clinton official told me Monday afternoon. “All the rules will be going out the window.”

Rules of good behavior, maybe. But, in fact, the actual rules of the party allow for such switching. The notion that pledged delegates must vote for a certain candidate is, according to the Democratic National Committee, a “myth.”

“Delegates are NOT bound to vote for the candidate they are pledged to at the convention or on the first ballot,” a recent DNC memo states. “A delegate goes to the convention with a signed pledge of support for a particular presidential candidate. At the convention, while it is assumed that the delegate will cast their vote for the candidate they are publicly pledged to, it is not required.”

Clinton spokesman Phil Singer told me Monday he assumes the Obama campaign is going after delegates pledged to Clinton, though a senior Obama aide told me he knew of no such strategy.

But one neutral Democratic operative said to me: “If you are Hillary Clinton, you know you can’t get the nomination just with superdelegates without splitting the party. You have to go after the pledged delegates.”

Winning with superdelegates is potentially party-splitting because it could mean throwing out the choice of the elected delegates and substituting the choice of 795 party big shots.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has warned against it. “I think there is a concern when the public speaks and there is a counter-decision made to that,” she said. “It would be a problem for the party if the verdict would be something different than the public has decided.”

Donna Brazile, who was Al Gore’s campaign manager in 2000 and is a member of the DNC, said recently: “If 795 of my colleagues decide this election, I will quit [the DNC]. I feel very strongly about this.”

On Sunday, Doug Wilder, the mayor of Richmond and a former governor of Virginia, went even further, predicting riots in the streets if the Clinton campaign were to overturn an Obama lead through the use of superdelegates.

“There will be chaos at the convention,” Wilder told Bob Schieffer on “Face the Nation.”

“If you think 1968 was bad, you watch: In 2008, it will be worse.”

But would getting pledged delegates to switch sides be any less controversial? Perhaps not. They were chosen by voters, but they were chosen to back a particular candidate.

And it is unlikely that many people, including the pledged delegates themselves, know that pledged delegates actually can switch.

Nor would it be easy to get them to switch.

If, however, after the April 22 Pennsylvania primary the pledged delegate count looks very close, the Clinton official said, “[both] sides will start working all delegates.”

In other words, Clinton and Obama will have to go after every delegate who is alive and breathing.

[Bronco Bob]

Bill wasn't governor of Arkansas for 10 years and POTUS for 8 years
and Hillary a senator for going on 8 years by not playing hard ball.
As Leo Durocher said, nice guys finish last. And as Herman Edwards
said, you play to win.

[Old Dude]

I think there would be a big difference between a pledged delegate changing his/her vote before the first ballot or after.

If the first ballot ends in a deadlock, then something does have to give, one way or another. No real way around that, unless one candidate or the other simply concedes.

But the image of pledged delegates selling off their votes before the convention even begins would be a pretty major slap in the face to all the citizens who voted in the primaries and caucuses.

So any wheeling & dealing at this point would probably be more in the nature of lining up delegates for some kind of movement after Round 1.

Just my opinion. But maybe I've been watching too much Survivor.

[Taco John]

I don't see a problem with this. You play by the rules of the game, and if the rules allow for delegates to vote for the candidate who promises them the most stuff, then so be it.

If people want to change the rules for the next contest, then they should get active.

[frerottenextelway]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Bill wasn't governor of Arkansas for 10 years and POTUS for 8 years
and Hillary a senator for going on 8 years by not playing hard ball.
As Leo Durocher said, nice guys finish last. And as Herman Edwards
said, you play to win.

Some might make the argument that great leaders strive to do what's in the best interest of their party and their country, not using any means neccessary for personal victory.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by frerottenextelway

Some might make the argument that great leaders strive to do what's in the best interest of their party and their country, not using any means neccessary for personal victory.

This thread is not about a "great leader", not now nor in the future. She'll make up the rules as she goes along. I trust her as much as I do Bush.


Here a little nugget a friend sent to me. This oughta get BroncoBobs panties in a wad.


Boy, how soon we forget!! But it's hard to discount the facts.

Some thoughts to ponder: For people like me with average memory.

Hillary Clinton has been telling America that she is the most qualified candidate for president based on her 'record,' which she says includes her eight years in the White House as First Lady - or 'co-president' - and her seven years in the Senate. Here is a reminder of what that record includes:

As First Lady, Hillary assumed authority over Health Care Reform, a process that cost the taxpayers over $13 million. She told both Bill Bradley and Pat Moynahan, key votes needed to pass her legislation, that she would 'demonize' anyone who opposed it. But it was opposed; she couldn't even get it to a vote in a Congress controlled by her own party. (And in the next election, her party lost control of both the House and Senate.)

Hillary assumed authority over selecting a female Attorney General. Her first two recommendations (Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood) were forced to withdraw their names from consideration, and then she chose Janet Reno. Janet Reno has since been described by Bill himself as 'my worst mistake.'

Hillary recommended Lani Guanier for head of the Civil Rights Commission. When Guanier's radical views became known, her name had to be withdrawn.

Hillary recommended her former law partners, Web Hubbell, Vince Foster,and William Kennedy for positions in the Justice Department, White House staff, and the Treasury, respectively. Hubbell was later imprisoned, Foster committed suicide, and Kennedy was forced to resign.

Hillary also recommended a close friend of the Clintons, Craig Livingstone, for the position of director of White House security. When Livingstone was investigated for the improper access of up to 900 FBI files of Clinton enemies (Filegate) and the widespread use of drugs by White House staff, both Hillary and her husband denied knowing him. (FBI agent Dennis Sculimbrene confirmed in a Senate Judiciary Committee in 1996 both the drug use and Hillary' involvement in hiring Livingstone. After that, the FBI closed its White House Liaison Office, after serving seven presidents for over thirty years.)

In order to open 'slots' in the White House for her friends the Harry Thomasons (to whom millions of dollars in travel contracts could be awarded), Hillary had the entire staff of the White House Travel Office fired; they were reported to the FBI for 'gross mismanagement' and their reputations ruined. After a thirty-month investigation, only one, Billy Dale, was charged with a crime - mixing personal money with White House funds when he cashed checks. The jury acquitted him in less than two hours.

Another of Hillary's assumed duties was directing the 'bimbo eruption squad' and scandal defense:

---- She urged her husband not to settle the Paula Jones lawsuit.

---- She refused to release the Whitewater documents, which led to the appointment of Ken Starr as Special Prosecutor. After $80 million dollars of taxpayer money was spent, Starr's investigation led to Monica Lewinsky, which led to Bill lying about and later admitting his affairs.

---- Then they had to settle with Paula Jones after all.

---- And Bill lost his law license for lying to the grand jury

---- And Bill was impeached by the House.

---- And Hillary almost got herself indicted for perjury and obstruction of justice (she avoided it mostly because she repeated, 'I do not recall,' 'I have no recollection,' and 'I don't know' 56 times under oath).

Hillary wrote 'It Takes a Village,' demonstrating her Socialist viewpoint.

Hillary decided to seek election to the Senate in a state she had never lived in. Her husband pardoned FALN terrorists in order to get Latino support and the New Square Hassidim to get Jewish support. Hillary also had Bill pardon her brother's clients, for a small fee, to get financial support.

Then Hillary left the White House, but later had to return $200,000 in White House furniture, china, and artwork she had stolen.

In the campaign for the Senate, Hillary played the 'woman card' by portraying her opponent (Lazio) as a bully picking on her.

Hillary's husband further protected her by asking the National Archives to withhold from the public until 2012 many records of their time in the White House, including much of Hillary's correspondence and her calendars. (There are ongoing lawsuits to force the release of those records.)

As the junior Senator from New York, Hillary has passed no major legislation. she has deferred to the senior Senator (Schumer) to tend to the needs of New Yorkers, even on the hot issue of medical problems of workers involved in the cleanup of Ground Zero after 9/11.

Hillary's one notable vote, supporting the plan to invade Iraq, she has since disavowed.

Quite a resume`, isn't it?

Sounds more like an organized crime family...

[theAPAOps5]

Exactly, everyone here blasts Bush for stealing the elections. At least in the first one he used the Judicial system for the votes in Florida. According to Bronco Bob thats doing what it takes to win. But in my eyes that doesn't mean he deserved it. If Hillary pulls the 4 year old act and throws a fit the Democrate party will set themselves back another decade.

[alkemical]

I feel like this is a Vince McMahon production.....

[Taco John]

The parties control their nomination process, not the federal government. That is the way it's supposed to be. If you don't like it, then you should A) consider a party that you are more comfortable with, or B) get active within the party in order to affect change.

[Crushaholic]

Hillary became a senator of a state in which she's never lived. That's all you need to know about her. Her thirst for power is unquenchable and she will do anything she can to attain that power. I'm rooting for Obama to win the nomination, not because I think he will be easier to beat in November, but because I want Hillary to collapse on her pompous arse.

[Old Dude]

Denials from both sides:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...ged-delegates/

[Rigs11]

Great. I hate to see this crap,this delegate crap and the electoral college bs. Democracy my ass.

[Inkana7]

Hilary is sounding more and more like a desperate woman scratching together anything she can to create just a little bit of momentum. We could very well see 11 states in a row for Obama by the end of tonight..

[Old Dude]

Originally Posted by Inkana7

Hilary is sounding more and more like a desperate woman scratching together anything she can to create just a little bit of momentum. We could very well see 11 states in a row for Obama by the end of tonight..

Could be, but if she manages to win or stay very close in Wisconsin, then the "negative campaign" themes will be reinforced and we will see a lot more of it (probably from both sides) in Texas and Ohio.

I imagine that most rank and file Republicans are hoping that the Dem race stays close and bitter and ugly all the way to the convention.

[Inkana7]

Hailing from Youngstown, Ohio, lemme tell you that Hilary will have a difficult time winning this state. She visited Youngstown last week, and not much was said. Obama visited us yesterday, and he made the front page of the paper. I'd put money on Obama winning Ohio.

Word has it that he's got a nice margin ahead of her in Texas too.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Inkana7

Hailing from Youngstown, Ohio, lemme tell you that Hilary will have a difficult time winning this state. She visited Youngstown last week, and not much was said. Obama visited us yesterday, and he made the front page of the paper. I'd put money on Obama winning Ohio.

Word has it that he's got a nice margin ahead of her in Texas too.

Don't forget that Youngstown has one of the highest delegate counts... it's a vital area for both candidates.

[Inkana7]

Originally Posted by Maximus

Don't forget that Youngstown has one of the highest delegate counts... it's a vital area for both candidates.

Well from what I've seen Obama has this area in his camp. Including me.

[alkemical]

I bet, that Hillary wins though. This super delegate thinger, etc that she's doing is the power play. I hate to say it, but obama doesn't have the muscle. The Clintons are very much the same as the Bush's. They are both strong in family.

[theAPAOps5]

If the thats the case Clav then I would surmise that the new found vigor the Democrates have achieved will be short lived. If the Clintons steel a nomination after Obama wins the popular vote this will disenfranchise so many who are just now coming around. Howard Dean should be fired as DNC chief if that happens.

[alkemical]

Isn't disenfranchisement what's wanted by the politicians?

[theAPAOps5]

Good point, but the DNC is on the cusp of gaining control again they wouldn't sacrifice it all for disenfranchisement would they? If the scenario plays out that Obama goes into the convention with the popular vote and the pledged delgates only to have that trumped by lawsuits, super delegates, and back room deals they would essentially commit what Bush did. I just don't think they should risk it.

[alkemical]

Why not, you have mccain & clinton who more or less are sorta the same type of politician. By creating disenfrachisement, fewer people vote, but people still vote, so it legitimizes the voting proccess. Both parties have a vested interested in keeping it two parties. Get enough people apathetic, and do what you want.

[Dudeskey]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

This thread is not about a "great leader", not now nor in the future. She'll make up the rules as she goes along. I trust her as much as I do Bush.


Here a little nugget a friend sent to me. ................................

.......................
Sounds more like an organized crime family...

Good post (I didn't want to show the whole thing again lol). I'm in the same boat when it comes to distrusting Hillary & she's about as divisive as Bush. IMO America doesn't need another divisive figure @ this juncture