Top Ten QB's ever

[Majik]

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...w.3a0e2fd.html

Let's start this column with an apology. It goes out, alphabetically, to Troy Aikman, Len Dawson, Jim Kelly, Bart Starr and Steve Young because this is a column about the top 10 NFL quarterbacks of the last 50 years, and they just missed the cut.

The question was raised after Brett Favre's Green Bay Packers lost the NFC Championship Game to New York. It came up again when the Giants stunned Tom Brady's New England Patriots in the Super Bowl.

What will be the lasting impact of those defeats on how we rank Brady and Favre among the game's best ever?

(Note: I cannot rank Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh against the modern player, so we are limiting this to the "Modern Era" – the last 50 years).

On my list, both quarterbacks could have moved up one spot with a victory. Favre getting to his third Super Bowl near the end of an amazing career would have been significant. The same goes for Brady had he matched Joe Montana and Terry Bradshaw in Super Bowl victories.

Brady, of course, has more time to climb the ladder than Favre, so while the defeat may haunt him now, he has a greater chance to atone for it later.

Moving on, let's examine the top 10 in reverse order:

10 FRAN TARKENTON

The only blemish is the failure to win a Super Bowl, although his Vikings teams got beat by better talent from Miami, Pittsburgh and Oakland. His scrambles in the day of the slower linemen accounted for more than 3,600 yards and some of NFL Films' greatest moments.

Tarkenton threw for more than 47,000 yards, mostly with Giants and Vikings teams that were inevitably overmatched at the end of the year.

9 ROGER STAUBACH

Statistically, he doesn't belong on this list, but anyone who watched him knows that stats fail to measure what he accomplished for the Cowboys in the '70s.

For good or bad, this franchise never would have been dubbed "America's Team" without Captain Comeback rallying the Cowboys to all those victories. One stat holds up pretty well for him – five Super Bowl appearances in eight years, including two victories and the first really great Super Bowl, a 35-31 loss to Pittsburgh that made the Steelers the Team of the '70s.

8 TERRY BRADSHAW

One of the hardest quarterbacks to rank, Bradshaw had a great arm, was a first overall pick and led the Steelers to four Super Bowl victories in six years. That said, I never felt he was better than a lot of the quarterbacks he was facing; he was just surrounded by superior talent.

The difference between his four rings and Montana's is that the 49ers were good defensive teams who changed the game with their offense. The Steelers were good offensive teams who dominated opponents with the best defense of their era.

7 DAN MARINO

Some of you rank this guy higher because of the 61,000 passing yards, the 420 touchdowns. I don't because after leading the league in touchdowns in his second, third and fourth seasons, Marino never did it again. He led the league in passing yards five times, but he led the league in pass attempts, too.

The ultimate statistics quarterback – the opposite of a Staubach or Aikman – Marino couldn't get the Dolphins to the Super Bowl in his last 15 seasons. And he had opportunities.

6 JOHN ELWAY

He spent most of his years in Denver with good, not great wide receivers. And despite his ability to scramble and the 50,000-plus passing yards, Elway never would have won a Super Bowl without Terrell Davis' arrival.

But he was a great quarterback for a long period of time and gets credit for still being at the top of his game when he went out. His postseason numbers probably aren't as good as you think they would be – 27 touchdowns, 21 interceptions.

5 TOM BRADY

It's hard to figure out where to place him when he has so much of a career left. But he won three Super Bowls with (like Elway) good, not great receivers and, of course, enjoyed a record-setting season with Randy Moss.

Brady just turned 30 in August. He has a chance to move all the way to the top of this list before he is finished.

4 PEYTON MANNING

I have to keep him ahead of Brady. For now. He has too many excellent seasons in the book and probably will end up owning most of the league's all-time passing records.

But Manning doesn't have as much career left as Brady, nor is he surrounded by quite as much talent. So his hold on this spot is slipping.

3 BRETT FAVRE

The guy who now owns all the league marks for passing yards and touchdowns and the NFL's only three-time MVP has to be near the top of the list.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who put Favre first, even if he has but one Super Bowl victory. He played in some awful weather, his best receivers were Sterling Sharpe, Antonio Freeman and Donald Driver, and Favre gets major credit for making 253 consecutive starts.

Just being there is part of the process. No one questioned Aikman's toughness, but he doesn't make this discussion in part because he missed 27 games in a 12-year career. Favre hasn't missed one in more than 15 seasons.

2 JOHNNY UNITAS

If you are pretty much responsible for elevating the NFL to a higher plane than major league baseball, you get serious credit. The streak of touchdown passes in 47 straight games was amazing in an era in which the rules had not been changed to open up the passing game.

Unitas threw for more than 40,000 yards in an era when 2,500 yards in a season was a big, big deal. And he was still good enough 12 years after the famous overtime championship win over the Giants in Yankee Stadium to help the Colts past the Cowboys in Super Bowl V.

1 JOE MONTANA

I don't want to hear anything about him being a system quarterback. And who cares if he was? The 49ers' system forever changed the look of the NFL.

Montana led the NFC in passer rating five times and won all four of his Super Bowl appearances. Yes, he had Jerry Rice for much of his career, but Montana already had two rings before the 49ers drafted Rice.

Even at the end of his career, the final two seasons in Kansas City, Montana was good enough to get himself to a Pro Bowl and the Chiefs to an AFC Championship Game.

He was as good as Staubach at engineering comebacks, and in big games, no one ever was better.

What do u guys think? good? Discus!

[Los Broncos]

We talked about this a little while back, why Otto Graham is not in the top ten is beyond me.

[Kaylore]

Elway gets nailed for bad post season numbers but I guess that doesn't hurt Favre who played like crap for six years of his career? And Brady is the most underwhelming QB ever. Most of his big wins were driving his team from his own thirty to the opponent's forty so Vinatieri could bail the team out. Only when he got Wes Welker and Randy Moss did he finally look "super" and even then he choked in the big game.

I can't argue with their top two, though. I like that they buried Marino so low on the list.

[SoCalBronco]

Originally Posted by Majik

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...w.3a0e2fd.html


What do u guys think? good? Discus!

WTF.....where's Majkowski?

[Majik]

I'd take Fran Tarkenton off the list and insert this.....

10 Don Majkowski

Nicknamed “Majik Man” for his stylish, flamboyant style of play, Don Majkowski was the Packers’ 10th round draft choice in 1987 and quite possibly the greatest 10th round pick ever. By putting his modeling career on hold, In just two short years, Majik raised to elite quarterback status while he had the kind of season (1989) that many quarterbacks only dream about.

He led the NFL in passing yards (4,318), was named runner-up to Joe Montana for league Most Valuable Player honors and was named to the Pro Bowl and to the All-Madden Team. That season, Majik led the Packers to a 10-6 record, only to miss the playoffs on the last day of the regular season, what a shame.

During his final season in Green Bay Majik groomed a young gunslinger named Bret Favre into becoming one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time. It has been rumored that Favre holds Majkowski 100% responsible for helping him become the only 3 time NFL MVP, we were unable to reach Favre by phone to confirm the rumor, so take it as you will.

[broncos loveI]

Originally Posted by Majik

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...w.3a0e2fd.html


What do u guys think? good? Discus!

thanks majick

[JCMElway]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

WTF.....where's Majkowski?

WTF? Where's Foneco?

[Gcver2ver3]

garbage ranking...

aikman should replace tarkenton...

elway behind favre?...get real...

elway should be numero uno...

[DomCasual]

Move Elway into the top 3. Have Montana be 1, and Elway and Unitas be 2A and 2B.

[Sodak]

Dude. Isn't majik spelled with a "g"?

Magic.

[wabbit]

It's a good list over-all, but in my mind, you can't simply dismiss Otto Graham & Sammy Baugh because they aren't in the 'modern era.

Baugh fundamentally changed the game of football at every level; making the passing game essential to the game.

All Graham did was lead his team to the championship game every single year he played in the pros...and you thought four Super Bowls in a row was something...try 9 championship games in a row.

In my rankings, you can't dismiss two of the greatest players in the history of the game because the timing of their play was inconvenient.

Oh, and it's way too damned soon to be ranking Brady &/or Manning above anyone among the elite.

Lets see if Tom Terrific is zinging Super Bowl TDs in his 16th season...I doubt it frankly.

[Sodak]

There's about 20 QB's who should be in the top ten.

[PRBronco]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

WTF.....where's Majkowski?

Bahaha beat me to it!

[dsmoot]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Elway gets nailed for bad post season numbers but I guess that doesn't hurt Favre who played like crap for six years of his career? And Brady is the most underwhelming QB ever. Most of his big wins were driving his team from his own thirty to the opponent's forty so Vinatieri could bail the team out. Only when he got Wes Welker and Randy Moss did he finally look "super" and even then he choked in the big game.

I can't argue with their top two, though. I like that they buried Marino so low on the list.

I always love the argument that Elway would never have won a Superbowl without TD. Would any of the QB's in the top 10 list won a Superbowl with the Denver teams without TD. If Terry Bradshaw had played with any of the teams of his era OTHER than the Steelers, would he be on that list. You can go down the list of all these players and to a man they played with future Hall of Famers. What a lame argument. It still is a team game.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Elway gets nailed for bad post season numbers but I guess that doesn't hurt Favre who played like crap for six years of his career? And Brady is the most underwhelming QB ever. Most of his big wins were driving his team from his own thirty to the opponent's forty so Vinatieri could bail the team out. Only when he got Wes Welker and Randy Moss did he finally look "super" and even then he choked in the big game.

I can't argue with their top two, though. I like that they buried Marino so low on the list.

You forgot that Vinatieri gets the clutch praise from the media and HoF talk, but nevermind the 1-2 kicks he missed earlier in the game that would've made the "clutch kick" unnecessary.

[dsmoot]

Originally Posted by wabbit

It's a good list over-all, but in my mind, you can't simply dismiss Otto Graham & Sammy Baugh because they aren't in the 'modern era.

Baugh fundamentally changed the game of football at every level; making the passing game essential to the game.

All Graham did was lead his team to the championship game every single year he played in the pros...and you thought four Super Bowls in a row was something...try 9 championship games in a row.

In my rankings, you can't dismiss two of the greatest players in the history of the game because the timing of their play was inconvenient.

Oh, and it's way too damned soon to be ranking Brady &/or Manning above anyone among the elite.

Lets see if Tom Terrific is zinging Super Bowl TDs in his 16th season...I doubt it frankly.

Great argument. The trouble with sports writing today is they don't have any appreciation for the past. Anything that happened before 1958 didn't happen. Isn't that what really bothers Chuck Bednarik. We don't do a good job of recognizing that what makes a great athlete is what is going on inside of the person, not the statistics. The omission of Baugh and Graham off the list is very ignorant.

Lets face it, the team/talent you played on/with has a significant influence on any list like this. I grew up a John Unitas fan and got to see him play on a number of occasions. However, I also got to see a lot of Sonny Jurgenson and this guy was a very, very good QB who played on some horrible teams. I watched Sonny take sack after sack. I will not say he was top 10 but this guy was not far outside top 10. It hasn't been too many years that the players actually had much control on their career.

I will also say the same thing for Archie Manning. Switch the draft positions (teams) of Bradshaw and Manning, Terry would be pumping gas back in Louisiana and Archie would be in the top 10.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by Kaylore

Elway gets nailed for bad post season numbers but I guess that doesn't hurt Favre who played like crap for six years of his career? And Brady is the most underwhelming QB ever. Most of his big wins were driving his team from his own thirty to the opponent's forty so Vinatieri could bail the team out. Only when he got Wes Welker and Randy Moss did he finally look "super" and even then he choked in the big game. I can't argue with their top two, though. I like that they buried Marino so low on the list.

You're going to have to be one hell of a salesman to make anyone believe that Tom Brady choking is what lost that game. I believe I heard that statistic that he was on the ground 28 out of 48 pass plays... the only thing he'd be choking on is the Giants DL stuffing the ball down his throat.

And as for those who think it's disrespectful and ignorant to disregard those before the common era... would you dare put them into today's game and expect any semblance of similar results? This isn't like baseball where it's been fundamentally the same since it's early days. Football has changed immensely and the level of athlete that now makes up your average player is completely different. Today's players would make yesterday's players look like amateurs if both put on a field together in their primes. Sad but true. They can't be compared so to avoid ranking them on a random whim, the guy omitted them. That's definitely understandable.

[Bob]

Elway dragged his early teams to superbowls -- If Elway had the supporting cast of players that the Patriots have now, he would right up there with Joe Montana. Elway's early teams didnt have a RB, or a defence to speak of.

[ElwayMD]

Has there ever been a more over-rated QB than Favre? I mean he was excellent in his prime with the Packers but he is a gunslinger who is only breaking records because he has hung around. He also has the most INT's of any QB (I believe) and if Elway is going to have the monkey on his back of no super bowl without Davis, then Favre should have to hold his most interceptions record high in the air as well.

[rovolution]

Originally Posted by ElwayMD

Has there ever been a more over-rated QB than Favre? I mean he was excellent in his prime with the Packers but he is a gunslinger who is only breaking records because he has hung around. He also has the most INT's of any QB (I believe) and if Elway is going to have the monkey on his back of no super bowl without Davis, then Favre should have to hold his most interceptions record high in the air as well.

Favre is extremely overrated.

The guy played with world class receivers his entire career.

Sharpe, Freedman, Brooks, Rison, Driver, Walker, Jennings, Keith Jackson, Terry Glenn, Mark Chmura, Donald Lee, James Jones, Bubba Franks


If your throwing to talents like that your whole career, you better be putting up big #'s.

[Majik]

Originally Posted by rovolution

Favre is extremely overrated.

The guy played with world class receivers his entire career.

Sharpe, Freeman, Brooks, Rison, Driver, Walker, Jennings, Keith Jackson, Terry Glenn, Mark Chmura, Donald Lee, James Jones, Bubba Franks


If your throwing to talents like that your whole career, you better be putting up big #'s.

Fixed it for ya. Also don't forget about these stud receivers that favre couldnt have done without.

Bill Schroeder, Terry Mickens, Desmond Howard, Don Beebe, Derrick Mayes, Corey Bradford, Robert Ferguson, Antonio Chatman, ect. This list is pretty endless, Is it safe to say Favre would be no where without these guys!?

[broncocalijohn]

Majik, were you even born when your FATHER played? I think Elway in the top 5 should be on every list. I dont care where in the Top 5, but somewhere. Fran was an awesome QB, if you like Elway, you would have liked Tarkenton. Like someone said, you can almost have top 20 QBs on someones Top 10. I have no problem with Montana as #1.

[Bronco Billy]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

I have no problem with Montana as #1.

Montana and Unitas are really the only two that deserve to be mentioned with Elway. Favre and Manning are really damn close, but they're still playing.

[Bronco Billy]

My favorite quote on this subject:

"Take the best of everyone ... the arm of Dan Marino, the passion of Brett Favre, the savvy of Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas, the legs of Steve Young, the championship caliber of Terry Bradshaw, the intelligence of Peyton Manning ... and you've got John Elway. There was nothing he couldn't do on a football field, and he proved it while leading some bad teams to the Super Bowl single-handedly. He was the best strong-arm, running, come-from-behind quarterback ever."
- John Walker

[Majik]

Originally Posted by broncocalijohn

Majik, were you even born when your FATHER played?

I may be young, but Im not that young.