Setting the record straight on IAN GOLD

[BroncoBuff]

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

[Natedogg]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

Prepare to be lynched.

I have always felt that Gold was a very good bronco. Especially in the afc west he was great at covering the running back or te out of the backfield (due to his speed). Now that he has lost a step or two, he is pretty worthless though.

He also provided intangibles, like firing up the d. He also seemed to have a nose for turnovers. Something not usually seen from Bronco defensive players the past six years or so (other than champ).

[montrose]

I saw a significant drop in Gold's play after 2005, a year in which I thought he was very strong. To me, Gold was at his best early in his career as a special teams-specialist and nickel linebacker, but was a solid starting WLB as well. That said, it's hard not to believe bringing him in was a mistake considering the 1st round investment that was put into DJ that resulted in a strong rookie season at WLB. One could also point out that Gold's presence forced John Mobley to move to SLB which took him away from his natural position - another in a slew of poor decisions by the Broncos to play players out of position.

Gold has become an easy target for Bronco fans as he surely didn't play up to his full potential. He blew some coverages and blew even more tackles but he was far from the biggest problem the team had in 2007.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by Natedogg

Now that he has lost a step or two, he is pretty worthless though.

I think that's a bit strong. He got burned a few times on deeper TE routes this season by guys like Dallas Clark (who burned CBs and safeties that game, too BTW)....but so did a lot of really good defenders this season.

People made up their minds about Gold last season. Anything outside of a probowl type season in 2007 and he was going to get raked over the coals around here. That is why guys like Champ get a pass for getting burned deep while peeking in the backfield to defend the run and guys like Gold do not.

[Crushaholic]

It's always open season on Gold-bashing on the Mane, and I think it's a little frustrating. He didn't have a good year this past season, but who (besides Elvis Dumervil) had a good season on the D-line? I remember one chilly game against Washington two seasons ago where he LITERALLY saved the game for us by deflecting a Mark Brunell pass in the endzone as time was running out. I was freezing my hindquarters off that game, but I was very happy that Ian Gold made that play. His speed makes him a very valuable asset to the team...

[HEAV]

He was always an overrated safety playing linebacker...

[Hotrod]

I for one never understood all the Gold bashing. I mean who the hell does not want an undersized LB'er who can get blown up on their team.

[PRBronco]

Seriously, I could overlook some of his missed tackles if he played with any kind of an edge out there. I bet he runs the equivalent of a 4.2 40 to help tomlinson up after a play. When you list a linebacker's talents, do you really want to see "accomodating" as of them?

[elsid13]

Folks seem to forget at end of last season Shanahan was very unhappy with LB play and was trying to figure which of the two (Wilson and Gold) he could get rid of and get some value for. I believe that was reported by some of our insiders at the mane.

[rugbythug]

Originally Posted by montrose

I saw a significant drop in Gold's play after 2005, a year in which I thought he was very strong. To me, Gold was at his best early in his career as a special teams-specialist and nickel linebacker, but was a solid starting WLB as well. That said, it's hard not to believe bringing him in was a mistake considering the 1st round investment that was put into DJ that resulted in a strong rookie season at WLB. One could also point out that Gold's presence forced John Mobley to move to SLB which took him away from his natural position - another in a slew of poor decisions by the Broncos to play players out of position.
Gold has become an easy target for Bronco fans as he surely didn't play up to his full potential. He blew some coverages and blew even more tackles but he was far from the biggest problem the team had in 2007.

That makes no sense. The Defense was solid and Ian played his way onto the field.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by elsid13

Folks seem to forget at end of last season Shanahan was very unhappy with LB play and was trying to figure which of the two (Wilson and Gold) he could get rid of and get some value for. I believe that was reported by some of our insiders at the mane.

Wilson was specifically called out about his play before his injury. I clearly remember that.

[Taco John]

I'm guessing that Gold paid Travis McGriff's father off and is now in posession of "the evidence." That's the only way I can explain this situation.

[Orange_Beard]

Get 2 ropes. I agree.

[cmhargrove]

Ian is a great player, that may be in the "decline" of his career. I think his best asset was always his speed, but it seemed this year like he lost a step. Sometimes there are injuries that athletes don't make a big deal of, and maybe he was dinged up. I think Winborn played with more speed at the end of the season (but he also had fresh legs).

Gold shouldn't be a scapegoat. Neither he (nor DJ) was good enough to make up for our poor D-line play this year.

The real question shouldn't be anything about his perceived performance right now, it should be about his salary. I think he needs to restructure or walk, because there is no way he is worth 4 mil next year (is that right, 4 mil in 2008?). I would take Winborn in Ian's spot, then use the extra money to bring in a FA DT which makes the whole LB corps much stronger.

Other options exist, but he is not worth next year's salary figure - no way.

[montrose]

Originally Posted by rugbythug

That makes no sense. The Defense was solid and Ian played his way onto the field.

I'm not saying the defense was poor and Ian certainly played well enough to earn time. I agree the defense was solid and Gold played his way onto the field.

I was simply pointing out that, in large part because of Gold, the team released Romo and moved Mobley from the WLB position where had played well for years to SLB where he was largely unheard.

As far as my point of players playing out of position, here's a few examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Mike Anderson - HB playing FB
Reuben Droughns - HB playing FB
Cecil Sapp - HB playing FB
Mike Bell - HB playing FB
Nate Jackson - WR playing TE
Trevor Pryce - DT playing DE
Josh Mallard - DE playing DT
Tim Crowder - DE playing DT
Alvin McKinley - DE playing DT
John Mobley - WLB playing SLB
Glenn Cadrez - MLB playing WLB
DJ Williams - WLB playing SLB
DJ Williams - WLB playing MLB
Nate Webster - MLB playing SLB
John Lynch - SS playing FS
Hamza Abdullah - FS playing SS
Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS
Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS

I understand that injuries come and force you to make changes, but there is a certain pattern that the Broncos like to move players to different positions than they are accustomed to. Sometimes this works: Pryce was a stellar DE, but usually it doesn't. Hell I remember during his rookie camp, they wanted to experiment with BMarsh at TE. Why? Surprised Nate Webster sucks at covering TE's? The guy had never played SLB in his life in addition to the fact he's body type isn't the best fit for the position. Giving a guy a look at another position to see how he fits is one thing, but there's a reason these player's have played the same position most of their life - it feels natural.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Groupthink, Broncobuff.

That answers your question.

Some members of this site are proud to promote groupthink.

[ND Bronco Fan]

Originally Posted by cmhargrove

Other options exist, but he is not worth next year's salary figure - no way.

That is really what it comes down to IMO.

[BroncoInferno]

The fact of the matter is that Ian Gold was a excellent player for us up until about the final six games of '06. That is an absolute fact regardless of what the mindless haters say. However, since then his play has been very sporadic (though not as god awful as many here have tried to portray). It looks like he's lost a couple of steps, and for a guy whose greatest asset was speed, that means it's probably time for the club to move on.

[rugbythug]

Originally Posted by montrose

I'm not saying the defense was poor and Ian certainly played well enough to earn time. I agree the defense was solid and Gold played his way onto the field.

I was simply pointing out that, in large part because of Gold, the team released Romo and moved Mobley from the WLB position where had played well for years to SLB where he was largely unheard.

As far as my point of players playing out of position, here's a few examples I can think of off the top of my head:

Mike Anderson - HB playing FB Played Well
Reuben Droughns - HB playing FBPlayed Well
Cecil Sapp - HB playing FB
Mike Bell - HB playing FB Wouldn't make the team at previous position
Nate Jackson - WR playing TE Wouldn't make the team at previous position
Trevor Pryce - DT playing DE Played Well
Josh Mallard - DE playing DT Played Well
Tim Crowder - DE playing DT
Alvin McKinley - DE playing DT
John Mobley - WLB playing MLB When?
Glenn Cadrez - MLB playing WLB Played Well
DJ Williams - WLB playing SLB Played Well
DJ Williams - WLB playing MLB Played Well
Nate Webster - MLB playing SLB
John Lynch - SS playing FS Just because the program says that I don't believe it
Hamza Abdullah - FS playing SS Just because the program says that I don't believe it

Domonique Foxworth - CB playing FS

I understand that injuries come and force you to make changes, but there is a certain pattern that the Broncos like to move players to different positions than they are accustomed to. Sometimes this works: Pryce was a stellar DE, but usually it doesn't. Hell I remember during his rookie camp, they wanted to experiment with BMarsh at TE. Why? Surprised Nate Webster sucks at covering TE's? The guy had never played SLB in his life in addition to the fact he's body type isn't the best fit for the position.

Every team moves players. You try and put the best players on the field all the time. Mike Vrabel plays TE.

[-Slap-]

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

I've slowly and grudgingly come around to the reality that the widespread OM hatred of Ian Gold is based on nothing more than armchair quarterbacks obsessed with his size and lack of stats (me included).

Let's Face facts: The reality is that Ian Gold is and always has been held in very high regard in Dove Valley. Shanahan has always praised him. Always. They've even screwed over an exceptionally talented 1st round pick to accomodate Gold without a moment's hesitation. There must a good reason for that.

I include myself in this group - so be mellow - but the amateurs around here hating Ian Gold are totally unsupported by any reality. Unless you're smarter that Shanny-Coyer-Bates-Slowik combined, it's time to face facts - now that he might've played his last game here - Ian was a damn good football player.

You're high on sperm, dude.

[SureShot]

Lets face these facts. For a fast athletic LB Ian has 4 INTs and 17 sacks in 8 years.

Very impressive.

[montrose]

Originally Posted by rugbythug

Every team moves players. You try and put the best players on the field all the time. Mike Vrabel plays TE.

I agree that many teams move players around but there has been a common theme amongst the Broncos in recent years. I simply don't believe in the "best 11 men on the field" theory, I think it's a crap response for moving players to positions in which they don't feel natural. That's all. Vrabel plays TE in an exclusive Goal Line package as have other defensive players, that's fine. But I don't see Vrabel lining up as the Pats starting TE. If you look at most of the past year's strong teams, you see few - if any - players playing lengths of time out of position. That's all.

As far as some of your assessments, I disagree that Anderson and Droughns played well at FB. I believe they played to the best of their abilities as HB's playing FB, however they were never near the level of a Howard Griffith or Vonta Leach as a true blocking fullback. They were... out of position. As per Bell and Jackson not making the team at other positions, the Broncos could have used Bell's roster spot for a true fullback and Jackson has stayed on because of his special teams abilities. I noted that Pryce played well at DE but I disagree with Josh Mallard. Mallard is a prime example of the Broncos poor DL play - a guy picked up off the street, playing out of position and routinely being handled. Mobley playing MLB was a typo I changed, I meant he played SLB after Gold took over for Romo. Mobley was a fine SLB but never the difference maker he was on the weakside. Cadrez was average at best his one season on the weakside, but that's very understandable considering Mobley's injury and Wilson sliding in at MLB. DJ's a thread all to himself, he was a good SLB and played well at MLB for a natural WLB - again, a player who would best served at his natural position. Lynch spent most of last season down in the box but had spent considerable time in 2004, 2005 and 2006 as the "deep free." Our blitzing schemes were able to protect that to some extent but he's best served playing the role he did 2nd half of last season. Abdullah played SS as Foxworth played FS the 2nd half of last season often on passing downs.

My point is that I don't think a team can be successful over a long period of time with so many players playing un-natural positions. That's all.

[BroncoInferno]

Originally Posted by SureShot7

Lets face these facts. For a fast athletic LB Ian has 4 INTs and 17 sacks in 8 years.

Very impressive.

Linebackers in a 4-3 do not tend to put up big sack or INT numbers. That's why throwing those stats around is silly in this context. A 4-3 defense relies on the front four to apply pressure, with only the occasional blitz from a linebacker. The primary role of a 4-3 linebacker is to chase the ball-carrier and cover TEs and RBs. Most LBs have hands of stone, so judging their coverage ability by how many INTs they amassed is pretty short sighted.

Using your standard, Al Wilson does not stack up much better. He had 21.5 sacks and 5 INTS in 8 years

[rugbythug]

Originally Posted by montrose

I agree that many teams move players around but there has been a common theme amongst the Broncos in recent years. I simply don't believe in the "best 11 men on the field" theory, I think it's a crap response for moving players to positions in which they don't feel natural. That's all. Vrabel plays TE in an exclusive Goal Line package as have other defensive players, that's fine. But I don't see Vrabel lining up as the Pats starting TE. If you look at most of the past year's strong teams, you see few - if any - players playing lengths of time out of position. That's all.

As far as some of your assessments, I disagree that Anderson and Droughns played well at FB. I believe they played to the best of their abilities as HB's playing FB, however they were never near the level of a Howard Griffith or Vonta Leach as a true blocking fullback. They were... out of position. As per Bell and Jackson not making the team at other positions, the Broncos could have used Bell's roster spot for a true fullback and Jackson has stayed on because of his special teams abilities. I noted that Pryce played well at DE but I disagree with Josh Mallard. Mallard is a prime example of the Broncos poor DL play - a guy picked up off the street, playing out of position and routinely being handled. Mobley playing MLB was a typo I changed, I meant he played SLB after Gold took over for Romo. Mobley was a fine SLB but never the difference maker he was on the weakside. Cadrez was average at best his one season on the weakside, but that's very understandable considering Mobley's injury and Wilson sliding in at MLB. DJ's a thread all to himself, he was a good SLB and played well at MLB for a natural WLB - again, a player who would best served at his natural position. Lynch spent most of last season down in the box but had spent considerable time in 2004, 2005 and 2006 as the "deep free." Our blitzing schemes were able to protect that to some extent but he's best served playing the role he did 2nd half of last season. Abdullah played SS as Foxworth played FS the 2nd half of last season often on passing downs.

My point is that I don't think a team can be successful over a long period of time with so many players playing un-natural positions. That's all.

I disagree on the Fulbacking abilities of Droughns and Anderson. Anderson Blocked for CP for 2 1500 yd Seasons. Droughns has shown more as a FB than HB IMO.

The point I want to make is this. In any organization people are going to have to step up and do things they don't like. No LB wants to be the SLB. But someone hast to do it. IF Mobley is not as good as Gold at WLB. But the best player on the roster for SLB you would rather play someone who is at their best at SLB but still not as good as Mobley was.

[TheReverend]

Welcome to the club, Buff.

I'm the goddamn founder. Don't mind the angry herd of sheep outside.