America is Bankrupt

[Bob]

Listen up. Right or left -- Americans will be dealing with this -- not just Donkeys and Elephants. I got this info from right and left, and neutral sites -- so it is what it is. If you guys know better, and can shoot the FACTS down -- please do, because the math holding up this house of cards is not good. The US Comptroller General (I never even knew existed) was on the Glenn Beck TV program yesterday. His name is David Walker, and he heads the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) and is in effect the USA's chief accountability officer. (Walker was voted in by congress for a 15 year term) unanimously under Reagan, and later under Clinton.)

Walker has compared the present-day United States with the Roman Empire in its decline, saying the U.S. government is "on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare under funding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon. (like ten years ago.)

On the Glenn Beck program yesterday, he said that the debt of the USA (on social security and Medicare) plus others is rounded up to $56 TRILLION. With $2 TRILLION USD ADDED EVERY YEAR!! Yes, much higher than some stats we usually see -- but look below at the USA Today. There are three books that are used in terms of reporting American debt.

This info was on USA Today:

Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion

By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
The federal government recorded a $1.3 trillion loss last year — far more than the official $248 billion deficit — when corporate-style accounting standards are used, a USA TODAY analysis shows.
Bottom line: Taxpayers are now on the hook for a record $59.1 trillion in liabilities, a 2.3% increase from 2006. That amount is equal to $516,348 for every U.S. household. By comparison, U.S. households owe an average of $112,043 for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and all other debt combined.
Unfunded promises made for Medicare, Social Security and federal retirement programs account for 85% of taxpayer liabilities. State and local government retirement plans account for much of the rest.
This hidden debt is the amount taxpayers would have to pay immediately to cover government's financial obligations. Like a mortgage, it will cost more to repay the debt over time. Every U.S. household would have to pay about $31,000 a year to do so in 75 years.


BALANCE DUE

The cost per U.S. household of unfunded promises made by federal, state and local government:

Medicare $255,280


Social Security $144,251


Federal debt $43,380


Military benefits $25,863


State and local debt $17,537


Federal civil- servant benefits $14,374


State and local retiree benefits $13,114


Other federal obligations $2,548


Total $516,348


Source: USA TODAY research; numbers


Although I don’t agree with many of his views Ron Paul is one of the few that has the balls to say some of this stuff. We are bankrupt – some us just don’t realize it yet. The above stuff appears to be undoctored facts -- so what do you do? We send our troops everywhere, and we promise more medical bennefits? Yeah, that's smart.

[SoCalBronco]

That's my No.1 issue, that's why I'm voting for McCain.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well, one of the things that people need to stop doing is electing people like Bush who promised not to "borrow" SS funds, does it and then turns around and enacts one of biggest Medicare fraud programs in history (trillions of dollars) on the American people.

[tsiguy96]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

That's my No.1 issue, that's why I'm voting for McCain.

[Rohirrim]

If we don't outlaw earmarks, no president will be able to fix it. It's like asking which pig will be the first to voluntarily back away from the trough.

[broncos loveI]

Just put the other Clinton in the office and the deficit will decrease, like the last time. Then Jeb Bush will win in 2012 and we will be screwed like the present. Maybe, Chelesa can run after that.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

If we don't outlaw earmarks, no president will be able to fix it. It's like asking which pig will be the first to voluntarily back away from the trough.

Yup...

I think it will take much, much more, that getting rid of earmarks -- but hey its a start. I would settle for breaking even a few years -- but one problem with a democracy is that when politicians learned (many years ago) that they can get votes by making promises of various free items, or “bringing home the bacon” for their districts it began a spiral of diminishing returns. It is depressing for me actually, as when you begin to get your head around the numbers and its implications, and what it would take to fix the problem -- and our collective lack of discipline. Politicians wont fix this -- that's suicide – to fix it will take more than pulling all troops back, and holding spending to zero increases to Medicaid and Medicare – it will take actual cuts to these and other programs. The problem will fix itself regardless what we do (if we stay on the same path) through the massive devalue of the dollar.

People sometimes want to jump on this kind of stuff to say -- Hey look at Bush's war, or Hey look what Obama will spend in Healthcare, when instead when you look at the numbers of over $30,000 per year per family for the next 75 years? to get back to zero? That is not possible, nor realistic. The dollar will be collapsed (I am not sure if it will be intentional or not) and we will issue a new currency --- in fact people will beg for it -- and greater sovernty will be lost.

[Bob]

More depressing news -- from Glenn Beck, so take in context...

One week ago today the first baby boomers became eligible for early retirement under Social Security. And over the next 20 years, another 78 million Americans will join them. The result is that every single household in America essentially now owes over four hundred thousand dollars each, just to finance Social Security and Medicare. Don't have four hundred thousand in cash sitting around? Well you're not alone -- and that's exactly the problem...our country is technically bankrupt.

Politicians try to confuse you with all sorts of complicated numbers and formulas about our financial future, but it's actually very simple: our government has promised far more money than it actually has or probably will ever have. USA Today calculated that we would need to stash away $58 TRILLION -- yes, trillion -- dollars RIGHT NOW in order to generate enough interest to pay for our future obligations. You may or may not have heard that are current investments total approximately zero dollars because, unlike Al Gore's stump speech, there is no "lockbox."

Now, I'm probably a lot like you when it comes to this stuff; it puts me to sleep too, but what really woke me up is something called the "menu of delayed pain." This basically shows the options that we have to pay for our future debts. For example, if we acted back in 2003, we could've fixed everything by raising payroll taxes by 95%. Not pretty, but now in 2008, because of compounding interest, we'd have to raise them by 103%! And the other options you see there in the right hand column aren't much better -- unless you happen to enjoy paying 74% more in federal income tax.

Unfortunately, the American people never got to see those numbers because they were pulled out of the 2004 budget just a few days after then Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill -- who had ordered the analysis -- was fired. And why were they pulled? It's simple; because our leaders in both parties believe that we can't handle the truth. Well they're wrong. What we can't handle are leaders who refuse to tell the truth. So tonight, I want to introduce you to someone different; someone who has no political stake in the game. He's not about left or right, he's about right and wrong. He's the head of the Government Accountability Office -- the GAO-- which makes him our nation's top accountant, and while it's not typical for someone in his position to speak out, he's now saying enough is enough and he's bringing his wake-up call directly to the American people.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But Bob:

According to Lone Bolt and W*GS, you and your sources are just "doomsters" and "fear mongers" and the economy is really coming up roses.

[Bob]

Well, they are ignorant on this issue, or pumping before the implosion. More likely however, I think many just think -- well "they" have been saying this forever, so somehow think that we will be spared somehow by a tax cut or two.

What will piss me off is listening to a bunch of party-line folks, and politicians running around like cockroaches when it happens, and blaming each other while Rome burns. Blame only matters to those who are not suffering.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

[baja]

Originally Posted by Bob

Yup...

I think it will take much, much more, that getting rid of earmarks -- but hey its a start. I would settle for breaking even a few years -- but one problem with a democracy is that when politicians learned (many years ago) that they can get votes by making promises of various free items, or “bringing home the bacon” for their districts it began a spiral of diminishing returns. It is depressing for me actually, as when you begin to get your head around the numbers and its implications, and what it would take to fix the problem -- and our collective lack of discipline. Politicians wont fix this -- that's suicide – to fix it will take more than pulling all troops back, and holding spending to zero increases to Medicaid and Medicare – it will take actual cuts to these and other programs. The problem will fix itself regardless what we do (if we stay on the same path) through the massive devalue of the dollar.

People sometimes want to jump on this kind of stuff to say -- Hey look at Bush's war, or Hey look what Obama will spend in Healthcare, when instead when you look at the numbers of over $30,000 per year per family for the next 75 years? to get back to zero? That is not possible, nor realistic. The dollar will be collapsed (I am not sure if it will be intentional or not) and we will issue a new currency --- in fact people will beg for it -- and greater sovernty will be lost.

I have been seeing this coming for many years now. The system, it's broken folks. It's a run away train. Due to the colossal greed of the last several years on every level the global economic system will fall into a heap of bad debt. Some times you can just retool but this is not one of those times. The only way it can be "fixed" is for it to completely fail and only than can a new system evolve that will work. It's a huge lesson we are all about to learn, there really is no other way.

I know many of you think I am nuts but if you just step back and take a good common sense look at all the related problems than put it all together and what you will see is a perfect storm brewing.

The veneer of society is thin, very very thin.

Guys like W*AGS are in for a big surprise.

[Meck77]

Do what you've always done.....You get what you've always gotten......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Meck77

Do what you've always done.....You get what you've always gotten......

In other words:

"Friends don't let friends vote Republican."

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by baja

I have been seeing this coming for many years now. The system, it's broken folks. It's a run away train. Due to the colossal greed of the last several years on every level the global economic system will fall into a heap of bad debt.

Nope.

Originally Posted by baja

Guys like W*AGS are in for a big surprise.

Uh-hunh. Thus sayeth the guy in his hidey-hole in Mexico, which is silly considering the relative economic and political health of Mexico compared to the US, over the short- and long-term.

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by SoCalBronco

That's my No.1 issue, that's why I'm voting for McCain.

McCain, by self admission I might add, states unequivocably that he does NOT understand economics well enough. He said it, not me. In fact, at age 72, if you haven't learned it yet, you aren't going to learn. Romney's knowledge of the economy and the american dollar, let alone foreign dollar, is outstanding. if you are worried about the economy, while McCain will attack spending, overall he doesn't hold a candle to romney's level of knowledge. In addition, romney has stated the same as McCain, we need to cut spending now....dman

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

If we don't outlaw earmarks, no president will be able to fix it. It's like asking which pig will be the first to voluntarily back away from the trough.

FULLY agree with you. And how do most earmarks come about? Special interests and lobbyist of course. Each state needs to tighten up their purse strings also and NOT expect so much from the federal government. That INCLUDES those who openly defy the government on the issue of law. They should expect any federal funding for their state to be cut if they can't abide by key federal laws, such as, illegal immigration...dman

*I would love to see San Fran and Gov. Arnold in california squirm for a bit. Send a message to the whole country, enforce the immigration law or suffer the consequences.

[defenseman]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

But Bob:

According to Lone Bolt and W*GS, you and your sources are just "doomsters" and "fear mongers" and the economy is really coming up roses.

In some cases, these supposed "doomsters" are hitting the nail squarely on the head. I agree with you. I'm just getting ready to retire from the military and adjusting my investments accordingly. Watching the economy very closely. There will be major issues within a year or so IF we do not address spending RIGHT NOW...dman

[Crushaholic]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

In other words:

"Friends don't let friends vote career politicians."

I fixed your post. Right or left, people who spend their whole life in politics are interested in more power and what kind of bacon they can bring home.

[W*GS]

Just as I've been saying for years, and as the data shows, it's the entitlement programs (Medicare/Medicaid/SS) that are driving the US into the ground financially.

Unless we get a handle on those, all the other government spending is in the noise and doesn't matter.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

In other words:

"Friends don't let friends vote Republican."

Being cute -- that’s fine, but both parties have spent like crazy, and will spend like drunken sailors until there is nothing left. Any body talking about spending less that you believe? There are no politicians on the Dem side that will, and only a few on the Repub side that would even try. This is one subject, where one needs to be as intellectually honest as possible.

Fact: Republicans spend a whole lot of money while in office -- GW has been one of the worst. Reagan spent allot too ... as he built up our military. I think that in his case, part of the plan was to bankrupt the USSR --well, that worked (in the short term) but they reconfigured their economy, and are now plush with oil money from us. Others are playing this same card on us to bankrupt us (including Osama) -- and unless we can stop being pigs, and curb our new ridiculous entitlement framed as "needs" including healthcare "rights." We will fall into the same hole. In 1928 the policians had a slogan of: “a Chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.” Back then having a car was turning from a want and was reframed into a right. We are doing the same thing with healthcare.

Fact: The Dems will likely cut our expenses over-seas if someone like Obama gets in and takes the troops back home. So from a fiscal standpoint that saves billions -- but, our biggest commitments in terms of money are to healthcare related expenses. We can not afford to pay for our current commitments in healthcare, but will add more debt to the system? It may "feel" good now, but it will put us further into a hole -- eventually meaning we will all have much, much poorer support from the government. People think France is a great healthcare system, well -- I cant speak to the quality, but I do know that their birthrate in France is1.75 nationally per couple (it would be less if you took out Muslim birthrates) they have a much less sustainable healthcare system due to an aging population whose healthcare system is in deep debt. The math doesn’t work now, but in several years that system will fail and be replaced. Don’t look at the surface guys to see the pretty grass elsewhere – and assume it must be better then the bad old USA. The Dems are not known for spending less either -- so shove the club mentality up your collective butts (That goes for Dems and Repubs) and while your at it pull your head out as well.

In terms of spending I would rank them as follows:
1. Ron Paul would be the best (I think.) He is a hypocrite on pork spending for his district, but I still think he would make the most drastic cuts because he would slash military and domestic federal spending.
2. Giuliani has a good track record of cutting
3. Romney is not bad either

Now, we all have to weigh out everything before voting, but if we truly have double digit inflation over several years, which I think will gradually build over the next few years, and gain momentum (actually I think this is the best of the crappy scenarios before us) kiss your retirement goodbye, our ability to defend ourselves effectively from our enemies both foreign and domestic, and our very nice lifestyle (when compared to most of the world.) have a nice day.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

I fixed your post. Right or left, people who spend their whole life in politics are interested in more power and what kind of bacon they can bring home.

And when they bring home bacon we reward them, by thinking -- "hey great he got us our peice of the pie." I voted for Max Baucus (D) last time around and I was on his email list -- he got alot of money for Montana, and his email read "Bringing home the Bacon for Montana" and he braged about all of the goodies he brought home from DC. I emailed him, and asked to be taken off his email list and told them why (I know no one is going to read it, but it made me feel better) he is moderate on some issues, and I wanted to reward him for playing nice with conservatives at times -- but I guess he does not understand that when he steals Spider's money or LA's money, and brags about it it does not help the collective district I belong (That would be the the USA.)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Just as I've been saying for years, and as the data shows, it's the entitlement programs (Medicare/Medicaid/SS) that are driving the US into the ground financially.

Unless we get a handle on those, all the other government spending is in the noise and doesn't matter.

Defense spending is out of control to the same tune (trillions and trillions). All 3 need to be addressed.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Crushaholic

I fixed your post. Right or left, people who spend their whole life in politics are interested in more power and what kind of bacon they can bring home.

Can't deny the truth in this, but America was still in much better shape under Clinton. Hence, the Dems have the better recent track record for leadership, stewardship of the economy, etc.

[baja]

Ya but it is not being spent on defense pre say it is being spent on open ended contracts to halaburton.