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Old 09-02-2017, 04:46 PM   #1
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Default At some point we have to start questioning Elway

Preface this by saying: we have to see how this season plays out, maybe John knows more than I do.

That being said this has been a very disappointing couple off seasons. He has particularly mismanaged the QB position since Manning left.

First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season, then got outbid by Houston leaving us with the choices of a 7th round 2nd year QB, a proven failure of a veteran, and a rookie.

This year it got worse. He was so enamored with trying to attract Romo it seems the rest of the team was ignored. The offensive line was clearly the biggest need of the team and Elway was sitting on the sidelines trying to get Romo while the rest of the league was eating up the good free agent options. The defensive line was clearly the second biggest need and Elway was once again so caught up in trying to attract Romo he failed to give Calais Campbell the extra $2 million to come here (as it turns out we are well under the cap, could easily have spent that $2 million, and in desperate need of d-line help). This then forced him to not pick best player available in the draft and instead use the first round pick on Bolles. This is after his Schofield and Sambraillo picks failed.

Then we get to camp and Paxton is awful. So we're left with Siemian (who I actually think could be our long term starter). Everyone can see this within the first 2 weeks but we have to drag it out all the way past the end of camp because Lynch is a first round pick. Their so enamored with Lynch that they say he has the backup spot and nobody can possibly beat him out no matter how good they play. No one but Siemian and Lynch even have a chance to compete (even for the backup job), they don't care about who the best player is. (Though I'm pretty sure if Lynch had won the starting job and Siemian looked poor this preseason we might be seeing Sloter as the backup).

Then they waive Ward for no reason other than to save a few dollars. They don't care about the leadership in the locker room or the chemistry in the secondary, we don't need the cap space. It's just jettisoning a pro-bowl player for kicks and giggles (do you think Elway gets a bonus for the saving the Bowlens a few million $?)

More and more I'm seeing problems with the way VJ runs the team, and it looks to me like he was hired because he was Elway's buddy. He says he doesn't care who the best player is or what they show on the field, he just plays who has more pull with the front office. There is no discipline on the sidelines during the game. He failed to stand up for an important member of our famed secondary. He couldn't make a decision about the QB because of front office pressure, costing us valuable practice time. It's not a good look, hopefully just mistakes by a rookie coach.

I really hope these are nothing but the rantings of a paranoid fan. I really hope I'm wrong on all of this. This season will tell us.

But if I'm not wrong, if these are the symptoms of a bigger disease then it's going to be a long decade of mediocrity for this team.
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:48 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Strip Sacked View Post
Preface this by saying: we have to see how this season plays out, maybe John knows more than I do.

That being said this has been a very disappointing couple off seasons. He has particularly mismanaged the QB position since Manning left.

First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season, then got outbid by Houston leaving us with the choices of a 7th round 2nd year QB, a proven failure of a veteran, and a rookie.

This year it got worse. He was so enamored with trying to attract Romo it seems the rest of the team was ignored. The offensive line was clearly the biggest need of the team and Elway was sitting on the sidelines trying to get Romo while the rest of the league was eating up the good free agent options. The defensive line was clearly the second biggest need and Elway was once again so caught up in trying to attract Romo he failed to give Calais Campbell the extra $2 million to come here (as it turns out we are well under the cap, could easily have spent that $2 million, and in desperate need of d-line help). This then forced him to not pick best player available in the draft and instead use the first round pick on Bolles. This is after his Schofield and Sambraillo picks failed.

Then we get to camp and Paxton is awful. So we're left with Siemian (who I actually think could be our long term starter). Everyone can see this within the first 2 weeks but we have to drag it out all the way past the end of camp because Lynch is a first round pick. Their so enamored with Lynch that they say he has the backup spot and nobody can possibly beat him out no matter how good they play. No one but Siemian and Lynch even have a chance to compete (even for the backup job), they don't care about who the best player is. (Though I'm pretty sure if Lynch had won the starting job and Siemian looked poor this preseason we might be seeing Sloter as the backup).

Then they waive Ward for no reason other than to save a few dollars. They don't care about the leadership in the locker room or the chemistry in the secondary, we don't need the cap space. It's just jettisoning a pro-bowl player for kicks and giggles (do you think Elway gets a bonus for the saving the Bowlens a few million $?)

More and more I'm seeing problems with the way VJ runs the team, and it looks to me like he was hired because he was Elway's buddy. He says he doesn't care who the best player is or what they show on the field, he just plays who has more pull with the front office. There is no discipline on the sidelines during the game. He failed to stand up for an important member of our famed secondary. He couldn't make a decision about the QB because of front office pressure, costing us valuable practice time. It's not a good look, hopefully just mistakes by a rookie coach.

I really hope these are nothing but the rantings of a paranoid fan. I really hope I'm wrong on all of this. This season will tell us.

But if I'm not wrong, if these are the symptoms of a bigger disease then it's going to be a long decade of mediocrity for this team.

It started today in Earnest

The movement has begun, the beginning of the end.

Dumpster Fires at the Valley of Doves
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:50 PM   #3
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Talk to me at the end of the season.
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:54 PM   #4
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I stopped reading after the part where Elway screwed up by NOT giving Osweiler a 72 million dollar contract.
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:56 PM   #5
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With the washout of several draft picks as busts, the intensity potentially turned up. If the defense has a letdown and safety is a reason, John will get roasted as a GM. If Simmons develops into a pro bowler then it will blow over like when pats cut lawyer milloy. That being said bare knuckling Manning to take less money, dragged out contract negotiations with Von and dropping a popular figure in the locker room like TJ is going to hurt his ability in the FA arena imo.

Again, John just signed an extension, he is not going anywhere. That being said he needs to improve especially in the drafting department .

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Old 09-02-2017, 04:56 PM   #6
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:56 PM   #7
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Fanboy operative propaganda
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Old 09-02-2017, 04:59 PM   #8
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I stopped reading after the part where Elway screwed up by NOT giving Osweiler a 72 million dollar contract.
Yeah if you wanted us to keep Brock, Elway looks like a genius right now.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:01 PM   #9
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Fanboy operative propaganda
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:01 PM   #10
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Yeah I agree with you. He's not God. It's ok to think Elway can make mistakes.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:03 PM   #11
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Yeah I agree with you. He's not God. It's ok to think Elway can make mistakes.
We all know he's made mistakes in the draft at certain positions and also in his failure to adequately address the OL.

No problem with questioning him on that. It's the other dumb **** that posters tend to defend him on.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:04 PM   #12
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35 post rule
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:05 PM   #13
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Yeah I agree with you. He's not God. It's ok to think Elway can make mistakes.
He's making some doozies.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:07 PM   #14
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I'll wait for the season first. Thanks.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:09 PM   #15
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Calais at 15 mil a year through his age 31-34 seasons isnt good cap resources.

And not paying Brock or Houston overpaying him is lucky for him.

Elway's past 2 drafts have been good to me. 13 to 15 not so much.

I was ok with the Ward/Simmons swap. Sloter, Jarrett, and signing Brock i didnt like at all.

I'll also wait for the season to see what happens before calling for his head though.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:09 PM   #16
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I stopped reading after the part where Elway screwed up by NOT giving Osweiler a 72 million dollar contract.
He was correct that he stated before the season ended. Brock would have been signed for much less than his huge contract.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strip Sacked View Post
Preface this by saying: we have to see how this season plays out, maybe John knows more than I do.

That being said this has been a very disappointing couple off seasons. He has particularly mismanaged the QB position since Manning left.

First he failed to get Brock a contract extension before the off season, then got outbid by Houston leaving us with the choices of a 7th round 2nd year QB, a proven failure of a veteran, and a rookie.

This year it got worse. He was so enamored with trying to attract Romo it seems the rest of the team was ignored. The offensive line was clearly the biggest need of the team and Elway was sitting on the sidelines trying to get Romo while the rest of the league was eating up the good free agent options. The defensive line was clearly the second biggest need and Elway was once again so caught up in trying to attract Romo he failed to give Calais Campbell the extra $2 million to come here (as it turns out we are well under the cap, could easily have spent that $2 million, and in desperate need of d-line help). This then forced him to not pick best player available in the draft and instead use the first round pick on Bolles. This is after his Schofield and Sambraillo picks failed.

Then we get to camp and Paxton is awful. So we're left with Siemian (who I actually think could be our long term starter). Everyone can see this within the first 2 weeks but we have to drag it out all the way past the end of camp because Lynch is a first round pick. Their so enamored with Lynch that they say he has the backup spot and nobody can possibly beat him out no matter how good they play. No one but Siemian and Lynch even have a chance to compete (even for the backup job), they don't care about who the best player is. (Though I'm pretty sure if Lynch had won the starting job and Siemian looked poor this preseason we might be seeing Sloter as the backup).

Then they waive Ward for no reason other than to save a few dollars. They don't care about the leadership in the locker room or the chemistry in the secondary, we don't need the cap space. It's just jettisoning a pro-bowl player for kicks and giggles (do you think Elway gets a bonus for the saving the Bowlens a few million $?)

More and more I'm seeing problems with the way VJ runs the team, and it looks to me like he was hired because he was Elway's buddy. He says he doesn't care who the best player is or what they show on the field, he just plays who has more pull with the front office. There is no discipline on the sidelines during the game. He failed to stand up for an important member of our famed secondary. He couldn't make a decision about the QB because of front office pressure, costing us valuable practice time. It's not a good look, hopefully just mistakes by a rookie coach.

I really hope these are nothing but the rantings of a paranoid fan. I really hope I'm wrong on all of this. This season will tell us.

But if I'm not wrong, if these are the symptoms of a bigger disease then it's going to be a long decade of mediocrity for this team.
You missed the part where he effed Siemien in the A last camp by gimptarding Mark Sanchez to the front of the preseason class.

The guy needs a VP in charge of Quarterback Operations.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:21 PM   #18
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**** it
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:21 PM   #19
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Jax has great drafts and pick in top 10 seven years in a row.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:25 PM   #20
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Talk to me at the end of the season.
Hey that's my response to everything except I usually December.

It does feel as exciting as having griese and Gus though
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:29 PM   #21
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To get to the root cause of this issue, we need to write a problem statement. Then to dive into why it happened, ask why, 5 times.

I just finished a Sologic Root Cause Analysis training. 5 Why's is a big part of getting to the bottom of things!
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:30 PM   #22
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**** it
Elway needs to lay off the sauce.
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:33 PM   #23
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Totally fair to question Elway. I've been critical of his drafting in particular. But letting Ward go and bringing in Osweiler to be a backup QB aren't reasons to question him IMO. Both make some sense when you set aside emotion and think rationally.

Last edited by TonyR; 09-02-2017 at 05:40 PM..
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:34 PM   #24
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Totally fair to question Elway. I've been critical of his drafting in particular. But letting Ward go and brining in Osweiler to be a backup QB aren't reasons to question him IMO. Both make some sense when you set aside emotion and think rationally.
I hope Chad Kelly shreds ass next offseason...
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Old 09-02-2017, 05:37 PM   #25
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Maybe Elway really did get a fifth for Sombrero. Tequila? Rum? 151?
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