Congress OKs Va Tech-inspired gun bill

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

W*GS and Ted Nugent must be seeing red over this...



By LAURIE KELLMAN, Associated Press Writer 3 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Congress on Wednesday passed a long-stalled bill inspired by the Virginia Tech shootings that would more easily flag prospective gun buyers who have documented mental health problems. The measure also would help states with the cost.

Passage by voice votes in the House and Senate came after months of negotiations between Senate Democrats and the lone Republican, Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, who had objected and delayed passage.

It was not immediately clear whether President Bush intended to sign, veto or ignore the bill. If Congress does not technically go out of session, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has threatened, the bill would become law if Bush does not act within 10 days.

"This bill will make America safer without affecting the rights of a single law-abiding citizen," said the Senate's chief sponsor, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer.

One of the House's chief sponsors, Rep. Carolyn McCarthy, spoke in the full House about her husband, who was killed by a gunman on the Long Island Railroad in New York. "To me, this is the best Christmas present I could ever receive," said McCarthy, D-N.Y.

Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., added that the bill will speed up background checks and reinforce the rights of law abiding gun owners.

Propelling the bill were the Virginia Tech shootings on April 16 and rare agreement between political foes, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and the National Rifle Association.

But other interest groups said that in forging compromise with the gun lobby, the bill's authors unintentionally imposed an unnecessary burden on government agencies by freeing up thousands of people to buy guns.

"Rather than focusing on improving the current laws prohibiting people with certain mental health disabilities from buying guns, the bill is now nothing more than a gun lobby wish list," said Kristen Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center. "It will waste millions of taxpayer dollars restoring the gun privileges of persons previously determined to present a danger to themselves or others."

The measure would clarify what mental health records should be reported to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which help gun dealers determine whether to sell a firearm to a prospective buyer, and give states financial incentives for compliance. The attorney general could penalize states if they fail to meet compliance targets.

Despite the combined superpowers of bill's supporters, Coburn held it up for months because he worried that millions of dollars in new spending would not be paid for by cuts in other programs.

His chief concern, he said, was that it did not pay for successful appeals by veterans or other people who say they are wrongly barred from buying a gun.

Just before midnight Tuesday, Coburn and the Democratic supporters of the bill struck a deal: The government would pay for the cost of appeals by gun owners and prospective buyers who argue successfully in court that they were wrongly deemed unqualified for mental health reasons.

The compromise would require that incorrect records — such as expunged mental health rulings that once disqualified a prospective gun buyer but no longer do — be removed from system within 30 days.

The original bill would require any agency, such as the Veterans Administration or the Defense Department, to notify a person flagged as mentally ill and disqualified from buying or possessing a gun. The new version now also would require the notification when someone has been cleared of that restriction.

The bill would authorize up to $250 million a year over five years for the states and as much as $125 million a year over the same period for state courts to help defray the cost of enacting the policy.

Propelling the long-sought legislation were the April 16 killings at Virginia Tech. Student Seung-Hui Cho killed 32 students and himself using two guns he had bought despite his documented history of mental illness.

Cho had been ruled a danger to himself during a court commitment hearing in 2005. He had been ordered to have outpatient mental health treatment and should have been barred from buying the two guns he used. But Virginia never forwarded the information to the national background check system.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071220/.../congress_guns

[Bronco Bob]

Bush will veto it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Bush will veto it.

I don't think so...

"Together, we have crafted a bill that will prevent gun violence, but maintain the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens" to bear arms, said Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York, a chief sponsor of the bill.

McCarthy was elected to Congress in 1996, three years after her husband was killed and son injured when a gunman opened fire on a commuter train.

The 4 million-member National Rifle Association, a powerful U.S. pro-gun lobbying group that has helped stop numerous gun-control bills, backed this one.

"Everybody on both the sides of the issue of firearms' ownership joined together," said Democratic Rep. John Dingell of Michigan, a former NRA board member and another chief sponsor of the bill.

"Both sides recognize this as a very sensible and proper way to see to it that the law is enforced and people are protected," Dingell told Reuters in a telephone interview.

Americans are among the world's most heavily armed people, and the country has one of the world's highest murder rates.

There are an estimated 250 million privately owned guns in the United States, which has a population of about 300 million. About 30,000 people a year die from gun wounds.

[Spider]

W*GS ....... are you ok ?

[Florida_Bronco]

I see no problem with this bill and hope it passes. Those with mental health issues should be under close examination should they want to purchase a firearm.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Spider

W*GS ....... are you ok ?

Chirp, chirp, chirp...

[W*GS]

I concur with Florida Bronco.

Much as some doofi around here would like to think, I don't have any problem with the bill.

On the other hand, some of the same doofi think wanting to own a gun is evidence of mental illness...

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

I concur with Florida Bronco.

Much as some doofi around here would like to think, I don't have any problem with the bill.

On the other hand, some of the same doofi think wanting to own a gun is evidence of mental illness...

so mentally ill people will walk up and say hi , I am screwed up with bad wiring , sell me a gun ? or is it you support back ground checks and GUN CONTROL ?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Spider

so mentally ill people will walk up and say hi , I am screwed up with bad wiring , sell me a gun ?

As if mental illness is so obvious.

Originally Posted by Spider

or is it you support back ground checks and GUN CONTROL ?

All the background checks and gun control laws won't do squat to keep bad people from getting guns. Prove to me otherwise.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by The O'W*GS Factor

Much as some doofi around here would like to think, I don't have any problem with the bill.

On the other hand, some of the same doofi think wanting to own a gun is evidence of mental illness...

To whom are you referring, exactly, Mr. Straw Man?

Quotes?

[cutthemdown]

I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of people that are emotionally disturbed. People like LABF and BAJA shouldn't have guns.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I'm all for keeping guns out of the hands of people that are emotionally disturbed. People like LABF and BAJA shouldn't have guns.

According to a study funded by the U.S. government, you have it bass-ackwards..

Conservative values claimed to be a mental illness

A study funded by the US government has concluded that conservatism can be explained psychologically as a set of neuroses rooted in "fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...017546,00.html

Sounds about right to me.

[cutthemdown]

You have to admit my timing and delivery was a lot funnier LABF.

[Breaker]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

According to a study funded by the U.S. government, you have it bass-ackwards..

Conservative values claimed to be a mental illness

A study funded by the US government has concluded that conservatism can be explained psychologically as a set of neuroses rooted in "fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/...017546,00.html

Sounds about right to me.

Ahh LABF trying to stir things up by only reporting half the article again.

They also said about conservatism that it "does not mean that conservatism is pathological or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false".
In addition the same author goes on to say that Liberals "may be less decisive, less committed, less loyal." Sounds about right also

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Breaker

Ahh LABF trying to stir things up by only reporting half the article again.

Rather presumptuous on your part.

How do you know that I wasn't just editing for length by providing an excerpt and a link?

Originally Posted by Breaker

They also said about conservatism that it "does not mean that conservatism is pathological or that conservative beliefs are necessarily false".

But the relevant passage was the one I quoted:

A study funded by the US government has concluded that conservatism can be explained psychologically as a set of neuroses rooted in "fear and aggression, dogmatism and the intolerance of ambiguity".

Originally Posted by Breaker

In addition the same author goes on to say that Liberals "may be less decisive, less committed, less loyal." Sounds about right also

Which of these sets of traits sounds more pathalogical or maladaptive to you?

"May be less decisive, less committed, less loyal," or "a set of neuroses rooted in fear and aggression, dogmatism, and the intolerance of ambiguity?"

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

You have to admit my timing and delivery was a lot funnier LABF.

Yep.

I'm sure Dave Chappelle is worried you're going to take his gigs.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

To whom are you referring, exactly, Mr. Straw Man?

Quotes?

Someone who parrots the (old) HCI line is a grave danger to our RKBA. You're one of those people.

What sort of gun control do you favor? How do you reconcile that with your anti-authoritarian beliefs?

Besides, you were the one who claimed gun violence was worse when the GOP was in power - you never did prove that assertion.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Show me where anyone here said that wanting to own a gun was a sign of mental illness.

Talk about hyperbole - you are the master.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'd have to read the bill. While on the surface it sounds like a great idea, but I bet if we dig deeper there is a bunch of crapola in the bill.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by W*GS

As if mental illness is so obvious.



All the background checks and gun control laws won't do squat to keep bad people from getting guns. Prove to me otherwise.

so without checking someone out , how do you find out someone has a screw loose ? and looking into someones past is a background check ........ Just mentioning that so we are both on the same page

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

I'd have to read the bill. While on the surface it sounds like a great idea, but I bet if we dig deeper there is a bunch of crapola in the bill.

you do that , you read the bill , then get ahold of my people and we will do lunch , and talk about it ........

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by Spider

you do that , you read the bill , then get ahold of my people and we will do lunch , and talk about it ........

I can't even find it, which leads me to believe it's buried in some other bill. Anyone know the bill number, at this point I don't even think this has actually happened.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Show me where anyone here said that wanting to own a gun was a sign of mental illness.

Your anti-gun brethren at the VPC always insinuate that gun ownership is a sign of deep paranoia and/or an attempt to compensate for a small dick.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Spider

so without checking someone out , how do you find out someone has a screw loose ? and looking into someones past is a background check ........ Just mentioning that so we are both on the same page

You're assuming that everyone who purchases a gun is subject to a background check. That would be news to gangbangers...

[Garcia Bronco]

That's the amusing part...we can make all th elaws we want, but criminals...the people we want to have guns the least....yeah...typically...they don't follow laws.