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Old 12-13-2007, 04:31 PM   #101
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I'm sure that you've passed judgement only after reading the 400+ page report. Or maybe in your extensive legal career you've developed an expertise around objectivity, and are in fact qualified to provide definitive statements without actual investigation.

Right?
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:44 PM   #102
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I'm sure that you've passed judgement only after reading the 400+ page report. Or maybe in your extensive legal career you've developed an expertise around objectivity, and are in fact qualified to provide definitive statements without actual investigation.

Right?
Bottom line is...it's a conflict of interest...and any of the conclusions can be questioned because of it. I do have extensive study in research methods...to create an objective study one must eliminate confounding variables. So in this case....a confounding variable is the fact that Mr Mitchell is an employee of a particular baseball team. This could have been eliminated...either by Mitchell resigning his post with the Soxs, or MLB could have selected someone else. There really isn't any way around this. Sorry.
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Old 12-13-2007, 04:45 PM   #103
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The Bonds thing is just ridiculous.

1) He holds every significant home run record in MLB history. It's the most important record in baseball.

2) He has been an active player throughout the most scrutinized years of the scandal (in other words, he's in the spotlight 162 nights a year).

3) He is standoffish to the guys who write about him. He pisses them off, and all but challenges to write the next inflammatory column.

Honestly, with all of that, there are people saying he's scrutinized...because he's black? That's unbelievably ridiculous.

There are A LOT of black guys in the Mitchell report.

I'm not going to point at anyone directly, because I don't know who has said that, in the past. But whomever said it needs to take a deep breath and think a little. If Mark McGwire was still playing, and he held the record for most HRs in a season, and most HRs all-time, he would be getting crucified, too.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:17 PM   #104
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Oh please. Please dont become the new Footstool24. At least you used to keep it more objective than that ridiculous assclown. Bonds wasnt singled out because of his color. He was in the spotlight because of the record he was breaking, nothing more.
This is an exact quote from my post.

"I'm not about to say it was because of race"
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:23 PM   #105
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This is not true. The Mitchell Report has been going on for the last 2 years because of the investigation. The FACT that Bonds admitted to "unknowingly" taking steriods and the FACT that he was about to break one of baseball's prominant records automatically put the pressure on himself. The only other names that had accusations of steroid use at the time when Bonds got discovered were those of players who were no longer in the league and at that point were irrelevant. Now, that the report is out you will see players on this list catch the heat. The list was never released until now so there was no one else to talk about but Bonds.

This report isn't saying anything we didn't already know. We all knew that a lot of these players were on roids. Bonds was taking heat over it before he went before the grand jury. It was a witch hunt against Bonds. Others took a little heat, but nobody took it like Bonds took it. Not even close. They are all guilty of the same thing.

Now, I am not saying that Bonds should be let off the hook. He should take the heat. My point is that other players should have taken just as much heat. Bash them all or don't bash any of them. I'm all for bashing them all, including Bonds.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:25 PM   #106
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Well I wouldn't go that far....but i do believe that Barry Bond's personality teamed with his gawdy record breaking numbers does obviously bring attention to him....deservingly so...i agree with you there

But if you're implying that color has no impact on this that would be a bit niave....
I totally agree, especially with the last sentence. Like I said before, I'm not about to say it was because of race, but being black certainly doesn't help him.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:34 PM   #107
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This report isn't saying anything we didn't already know. We all knew that a lot of these players were on roids. Bonds was taking heat over it before he went before the grand jury. It was a witch hunt against Bonds. Others took a little heat, but nobody took it like Bonds took it. Not even close. They are all guilty of the same thing.

Now, I am not saying that Bonds should be let off the hook. He should take the heat. My point is that other players should have taken just as much heat. Bash them all or don't bash any of them. I'm all for bashing them all, including Bonds.
Bonds and Jones are the only Balco athletes that did not admit use, she has paid the price, and now it is his turn. I believe being black and an a-hole gets you as far as being a white a-hole, nowhere!!!
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:42 PM   #108
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Now that Mo Vaughn has been implicated, can we give Albert Belle the 95 MVP award he deserved anyway ?

And who cares about all this...i can't believe anyone is shocked at any of this or really cares all that much. They are still superior athletes...i dunno. I'm sure in the minority, i just dont give a crap. It doesnt change the game for me and they are only hurting themselves, so i don't care
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:45 PM   #109
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Bottom line is...it's a conflict of interest...and any of the conclusions can be questioned because of it. I do have extensive study in research methods...to create an objective study one must eliminate confounding variables. So in this case....a confounding variable is the fact that Mr Mitchell is an employee of a particular baseball team. This could have been eliminated...either by Mitchell resigning his post with the Soxs, or MLB could have selected someone else. There really isn't any way around this. Sorry.
He not a employee of the Red Sox, he is in the ownership group that has stake in the team. He has hold less then 5% of ownership fund I think and has no oversight or control of baseball operation. Effectively a firebreak has been put in place to ensure that there was no conflict of interest. The only yahoos that will make that statement are Yankee fans.

As side note- I did think that whoever put the unoffical list up, should remove it or clearly mark it as not true. There are serveral players like - Woods, Nomar and Tek that are not indicated in the report.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:47 PM   #110
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He not a employee of the Red Sox, he is in the ownership group that has stake in the team. He has hold less then 5% of ownership fund I think and has no oversight or control of baseball operation. Effectively a firebreak has been put in place to ensure that there was no conflict of interest. The only yahoos that will make that statement are Yankee fans.

As side note- I did think that whoever put the unoffical list up, should remove it or clearly mark it as not true. There are serveral players like - Woods, Nomar and Tek that are not indicated in the report.
Careful, you'll start to confuse Garcia with facts.
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Old 12-13-2007, 05:51 PM   #111
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Until all those names get sorted out as to which teams they play with while taking the juice, this list is not all that helpful. Some may have taken the juice earlier rather than later or vice versa, so there is a lot of room for discussion by the named "criminals" of Baseball. There are four that I noticed that played for the Rockies. With the exception of Bichette, the juice didn't help them much.....

PS: Let me add that many of you here are much more versed in baseball than I, but I am a reasonable intelligent consumer of entertainment offerings. Therefor, I need a little help in sorting out who the scumbags swindled. One name is quite well known: Barry Bonds. The media created the big hype around his pursuit of the HR record, and I absolutely resent the scumbags' "achievements" when stacked up against Henry Aaron's or even the Babe. I hope Bonds spends about a year in the pokey for lying. What he did is at least half a bad as what the other media creation did: kill dogs.
I guess they swindled the non-juicers out of things like the Cy Young, League MVP, batting champ, RBI champ, SB champ, and assorted team records.

There's some big names listed, and I saw some quotes where people are saying they can't take records or awards away from these players. I disagree, I think that is most certainly the next step.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:12 PM   #112
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I wouldn't have a problem with Bonds taking more heat than most other players. But the problem is that he took the bulk of the heat, by himself for the most part, while many pretty much got a free pass. Bonds should be in the group of guys who is talked about more, but there should not be one poster child of the steriods era. Bonds was given way more than his fair share of the heat.
He certainly took all the heat in the stadiums. But McGwire, etc., certainly were shown a great deal of contempt in the press and on boards like this.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:16 PM   #113
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Neifi Perez, he must have gotten a bad batch.
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Old 12-13-2007, 06:55 PM   #114
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Noone said Bonds was right. I have NEVER denied the fact that he was a likely juicer. But it is the witch hunt that has gone on the last few years where people crucified him as if he was the ONLY ONE is where the true injustice is.

Bonds has never tested positive, but we know he's guilty. Bonds put up monster numbers at the twilight of his career. Bonds is regarded as one of the best ever.

And how exactly does this differ from Roger Clemens? And how much flack has Clemens received relative to Bonds?

Witch Hunt.
Forget it smelvin your dealing with a crowd that doesn't listen or read. Bonds said he never knowingly used steroids just like other people yet he's dragged into a federal investigation and crucified... He's a cheater just like clemons and the rest on the list but everything else is over the top.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:11 PM   #115
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That Clemmens was doing it doesn't mean what Bonds did was ok. What sort of twisted logic is that?
Kaylore, you are way off with your comment. He did not say that, He said that this was a Bonds witchhunt and that people were saying it was a unique situation that was all Bonds.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:18 PM   #116
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This report isn't saying anything we didn't already know.
We as in who? The fans? Media? We all SUSPECTED but we didnt have any proof.

Quote:
Bonds was taking heat over it before he went before the grand jury.
I disagree. People SUSPECTED he was doing it before the grand jury testimony. But like the names in the report, we only suspected but we didnt know. But once Bonds grand jury testimony got out it solidified everything that people suspected. Its a lot different between suspecting someone of being on steriods than having evidence. Now that the report is out more people will feel the wrath from the report.

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They are all guilty of the same thing.
Yes they are, but until you have the proof (which is out now in the report) they couldnt just start claiming those guys to have been on steriods like they did Bonds. Had Barry simply denied the allegations without the word "unknowingly" it would have been a hell of a lot easier on him. And if he wasnt in the process of breaking a significant record it would have been even easier at that point. At the time that Bonds was being addressed as a steriod user there was other players who were "allegedly" using steriods. Nothing on paper or on record for the to share the blame during that time. Now, Bonds has some company. Again, just because you and I feel that some of those other players were on steroids doesnt mean you can just go out there and accuse them without some solidification.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:20 PM   #117
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He certainly took all the heat in the stadiums. But McGwire, etc., certainly were shown a great deal of contempt in the press and on boards like this.

True.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:21 PM   #118
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Well if that many were on Roids , I dont see where anyone had an advantage ...... Hell put them all on roids , during a boring game , we could have a brawl .....
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:29 PM   #119
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Maybe the report that they should come out with is who DIDN'T use steroids
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:30 PM   #120
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True.

And he was just as much a dick as Barry
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:31 PM   #121
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First order of business: Selig knew what was going on, he gets canned first, then one by one take them down. Permanent ban, no hall, no anything.....can the lot of them if this holds up to be the honest to god truth. Notice, no red sox active players listed...dman
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:37 PM   #122
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Woooooooooooow!!!!!


The mods decided to let us babies talk about what we want, huh?

Or, are they just on break?

This story got sent to the **** can (or whatever) about 5 different times this morning.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:41 PM   #123
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Woooooooooooow!!!!!


The mods decided to let us babies talk about what we want, huh?

Or, are they just on break?

This story got sent to the **** can (or whatever) about 5 different times this morning.

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Old 12-13-2007, 07:45 PM   #124
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There's not one shocking name on that list. What Mitchell said today was nothing we already didn't know. All this hoopla is much ado about nothing.
No, it's significant.
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Old 12-13-2007, 07:51 PM   #125
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The big winner in the Mitchell Report......Barry Bonds.

All you idiots who crucified him as if he was doing something unique....shame on you. To say the crucifiction of Bonds wasn't a witch hunt is laughable.

I'm not saying Bonds is innocent....but he's no different than any other modern day player.

May they ALL burn in hell!
What a stupid cawksucker.
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