This is really REALLY Bad for us and good for Iran - The Orange Mane

Hotrod · 11-29-2007, 11:29 AM

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-25837,00.html

Print Rowan Callick, China correspondent | November 28, 2007
CHINA is running out of fuel. Police are guarding petrol stations in several inland provinces to prevent fights, as shortages of petrol and diesel are causing huge queues of trucks, buses and cars.

In Kunming, capital of the southwestern province of Yunnan, 1000 trucks are stranded.

A truck driver named Li told the Chuncheng Evening News he had been stranded at the Stone Tiger Gate petrol station for three days after searching for fuel in other places, but failing. He said his delivery date was way overdue.

Another driver, at Geiju city, said a job that would have taken one day in the past, now took three: one on the road, two queuing for fuel.

Nine days ago, a truck driver was reported to have been stabbed to death in central Anhui province after a row about queuing.

A few days earlier, at Ezhou in Hubei province, 100,000 people were stranded, unable to get to work, because city buses had run out of fuel.

Beijing has been insulated from the headache, and the wealthy coastal provinces are mostly better stocked, because the refineries are nearby.

The problem would intensify as winter approached, and was starting to affect exports, warned the Commerce Ministry, since diesel was crucial for shifting products to ports.

The system is suffering from pressure of demand to sustain its economic growth at the current 11.5per cent - with China now the second-biggest consumer of oil after the US.

Diesel imports rose 46.5per cent in the first nine months of the year, compared with the same period last year.

The other cause of the supply-demand mismatch, is the stuttering transition from government-controlled prices to market pricing.

The Government wishes to graduate towards a system that allows prices to move with international markets.

But inflation is at a 10-year high of 6.5per cent and the Government is reluctant to let oil, a key input for distribution of all products, float free as yet.

The two companies that dominate petrol and diesel sales, Sinopec and PetroChina, are state-controlled but also listed on stock markets, highly competitive, and anxious to become even more market-driven. Both pledged this week to boost their imports, especially diesel.

As inflation began to accelerate this year, the Government announced it was capping the prices of key commodities it still controlled, including oil, until the end of the year.

But it relented under strong pressure from Sinopec, PetroChina and other oil refiners and distributors, and conceded a 10per cent rise from this month.

Even after the 10 per cent rise, the price remains well beyond international levels, and China has to import about half its oil, for which it must pay world prices.

Meck77 · 11-29-2007, 11:35 AM

Just waiting on my tire for my 1970 suzuki cutlass 50 cc moped and I'm set for next summer cruising around the valley. I bet I could cruise all summer in what I use to put in the Toyota land cruiser in one full up.

At some point America needs to wake up and pursue some REAL alternative fuel for our cars or get into a world war.

Hotrod · 11-29-2007, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meck77

Just waiting on my tire for my 1970 suzuki cutlass 50 cc moped and I'm set for next summer cruising around the valley. I bet I could cruise all summer in what I use to put in the Toyota land cruiser in one full up.

At some point America needs to wake up and pursue some REAL alternative fuel for our cars or get into a world war.

It certainly would not be insane to think the next world war will be over Oil.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-29-2007, 11:42 AM

That article is a sneak preview of our own future.

Rohirrim · 11-29-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

That article is a sneak preview of our own future.

Reminds me of the '70s.

Raise your hand if you think we can sustain unlimited growth on a planet composed of finite resources?

Hotrod · 11-29-2007, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

That article is a sneak preview of our own future.

Unless we can take over the Iranian oil fields............I kid I kid

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-29-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotrod

Unless we can take over the Iranian oil fields............I kid I kid

Heh!

Almost five years later and Dim Son hasn't succeeded in taking over Iraq's oil fields - let alone Iran's.

Meck77 · 11-29-2007, 11:51 AM

Well the only way to get real change is to vote it into office. Which of the presidential candidates is bold enough to really start the process? Hillary? Obama? Edwards? Romney? Huckabee? Ron Paul?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-29-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Reminds me of the '70s.

Yep - except that in the 70s the causes of the shortages were purely political.

Rohirrim · 11-29-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Heh!

Almost five years later and Dim Son hasn't succeeded in taking over Iraq's oil fields - let alone Iran's.

And now El Sadr and the Shiite alliance are controlling the spigot in the South. Yeah, that worked out great, Dubya, you ****ing moron.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-29-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

And now El Sadr and the Shiite alliance are controlling the spigot in the South. Yeah, that worked out great, Dubya, you ****ing moron.

Well, at least somebody is happy...

W*GS · 11-29-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

Raise your hand if you think we can sustain unlimited growth on a planet composed of finite resources?

One thing that's unlimited is human ingenuity.

Part of the problem of extrapolating current trends in resource usage into the future and then saying that "Well, at 20XX, this resource goes away, ergo, the poo hits the fan" is that substitution is ignored.

If you had extrapolated the amount of forest remaining, to be used for firewood, sometime in the 18th century, the planet would have been entirely devoid of all trees a loooong time ago. Obviously, that didn't happen.

W*GS · 11-29-2007, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Yep - except that in the 70s the causes of the shortages were purely political.

Read up on how China controls gasoline, and you'll see that the fuel shortage problems there are also purely political.

What's going on in China is not an indication that gasoline is about to run out. But you've never let the facts stand in the way of your "The End is NEAR!" mantra, so why let them now?

cutthemdown · 11-29-2007, 03:34 PM

I think the big war happens when the oil is not needed as much anymore. What are all those countries the rely on oil for their entire revenue going to do when people in USA are driving in hydrogen and electric cars? When Saudi Arabia and Iran don't have oil money they will have nothing but desert and no water.

Whose global warming worst for the USA or our enemies? We are the buyers of oil if we start using something else they go out of biz.

cutthemdown · 11-29-2007, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Well at least I'm happy, things are going bad for America and I love it!!!!

You make me sick.

enjolras · 11-29-2007, 05:42 PM

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...=fcx.honda.com

Step 1.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-29-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

You make me sick.

Your "disagree with Bush's policies = hate America" straw man is the real sickness.

You live in a nutty parallel universe where facts don't matter.

cutthemdown · 11-29-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Your "disagree with Bush's policies = hate America" straw man is the real sickness.

You live in a nutty parallel universe where facts don't matter.

I disagree with tons of Bushes policies but just like in football when I don't like something Shannahan does I hope for it to work out. Same thing in Politics I pull for America to win!!!!!!!! Same thing in war I pull for Americans to win!!!!! I don't sit back and try to torpedo America by spreading doubt and saying we can't win.

cutthemdown · 11-29-2007, 11:09 PM

Do I think Bush juiced the WMD to get congress to go along with him? He prob did, but every politician in America thought the same thing since before Bush came along.

I don't think Bush cared about that he wanted Saddam and his sons dead period. He would have wanted to take them out either way. Saddam had tried to kill Bushes father and for most men that's enough. IMO that's something most Americans never thought about because you don't think about presidency being that personal between an American political family and another world leader.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-30-2007, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

I don't sit back and try to torpedo America by spreading doubt and saying we can't win.

There you go with the same bullsh*t straw man again - paraphrased this time:

Disagree with Bush's policies = "trying to torpedo America."

You are shameless in your intellectual dishonesty.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-30-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Do I think Bush juiced the WMD to get congress to go along with him? He prob did, but every politician in America thought the same thing since before Bush came along.

"Probably" did?

There is no longer any question that Disaster Boy trumped up and/or cherry picked the "intel" he used to justify his illegal invasion of Iraq.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

...but every politician in America thought the same thing since before Bush came along.

Let me guess - here is where you insert the standard right-wing canard that members of Congress and the Senate had access to the same intel as Vacation Boy?

In any event, it doesn't matter what those other politicians thought - they weren't the ones who decided that invading and occupying Iraq was the answer.

Even Bush 41 warned against it.

cutthemdown · 11-30-2007, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W*GS

One thing that's unlimited is human ingenuity.

Part of the problem of extrapolating current trends in resource usage into the future and then saying that "Well, at 20XX, this resource goes away, ergo, the poo hits the fan" is that substitution is ignored.

If you had extrapolated the amount of forest remaining, to be used for firewood, sometime in the 18th century, the planet would have been entirely devoid of all trees a loooong time ago. Obviously, that didn't happen.

Wait Wait Wait!!!!! you mean we might actually drive around in hydrogen powered cars and have solar panels on our houses that power them up? Say it ain't so!!!!!!

People underestimate whats going to happen now that Global Warming is going to be big biz. In 10-15 years things are going to be very different people

America is just a hotbed of really smart people. Sure we have a lot of dumb ones also but the smart ones are out there right now working on genetics that will cure diseases, oil alternatives, clean energy. These advancements will move even faster now that so many people are aware of the problems of global warming and oil.

cutthemdown · 11-30-2007, 03:29 AM

LA Broncos I just think a lot of the stuff you argue about is old news now and we have to move foward. Sitting around arguing about why Bush wanted to attack Iraq is moot now. The leadership of that country is dead. In fact I can't remember a war where the President took out a govt and got them killed faster. In those terms war was brutal and effecient in the goal of regime change.

Trust me if and when it's a dem in office you won't see me hoping for them to do bad. I'm just to Nationalistic. No matter what I have to pull for us to win.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 11-30-2007, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Sitting around arguing about why Bush wanted to attack Iraq is moot now.

Tell that to the families and friends of all the brave American military men and women who have died for Bush's greed and lies.

In any event, I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise when a Bush supporter wants to adopt a "move along - nothing to see here" policy when it comes to discussing the reasons for getting us into the war.

cutthemdown · 11-30-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Tell that to the families and friends of all the brave American military men and women who have died for Bush's greed and lies.

In any event, I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise when a Bush supporter wants to adopt a "move along - nothing to see here" policy when it comes to discussing the reasons for getting us into the war.

This coming from the guy who said Clinton apologized for not stopping the genocide in Rwanda. I mean who cares about 1 million dead africans right? Don't act like its a love a life that you support, you are just anti-republican, anti-democracy.

11-29-2007, 11:29 AM	#1
Hotrod Self Appointed Expert aka Dortoh Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 25,136 Adopt-a-Bronco: Miss I	This is really REALLY Bad for us and good for Iran http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...-25837,00.html Print Rowan Callick, China correspondent \| November 28, 2007 CHINA is running out of fuel. Police are guarding petrol stations in several inland provinces to prevent fights, as shortages of petrol and diesel are causing huge queues of trucks, buses and cars. In Kunming, capital of the southwestern province of Yunnan, 1000 trucks are stranded. A truck driver named Li told the Chuncheng Evening News he had been stranded at the Stone Tiger Gate petrol station for three days after searching for fuel in other places, but failing. He said his delivery date was way overdue. Another driver, at Geiju city, said a job that would have taken one day in the past, now took three: one on the road, two queuing for fuel. Nine days ago, a truck driver was reported to have been stabbed to death in central Anhui province after a row about queuing. A few days earlier, at Ezhou in Hubei province, 100,000 people were stranded, unable to get to work, because city buses had run out of fuel. Beijing has been insulated from the headache, and the wealthy coastal provinces are mostly better stocked, because the refineries are nearby. The problem would intensify as winter approached, and was starting to affect exports, warned the Commerce Ministry, since diesel was crucial for shifting products to ports. The system is suffering from pressure of demand to sustain its economic growth at the current 11.5per cent - with China now the second-biggest consumer of oil after the US. Diesel imports rose 46.5per cent in the first nine months of the year, compared with the same period last year. The other cause of the supply-demand mismatch, is the stuttering transition from government-controlled prices to market pricing. The Government wishes to graduate towards a system that allows prices to move with international markets. But inflation is at a 10-year high of 6.5per cent and the Government is reluctant to let oil, a key input for distribution of all products, float free as yet. The two companies that dominate petrol and diesel sales, Sinopec and PetroChina, are state-controlled but also listed on stock markets, highly competitive, and anxious to become even more market-driven. Both pledged this week to boost their imports, especially diesel. As inflation began to accelerate this year, the Government announced it was capping the prices of key commodities it still controlled, including oil, until the end of the year. But it relented under strong pressure from Sinopec, PetroChina and other oil refiners and distributors, and conceded a 10per cent rise from this month. Even after the 10 per cent rise, the price remains well beyond international levels, and China has to import about half its oil, for which it must pay world prices.

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11-29-2007, 11:35 AM	#2
Meck77 Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,312	Just waiting on my tire for my 1970 suzuki cutlass 50 cc moped and I'm set for next summer cruising around the valley. I bet I could cruise all summer in what I use to put in the Toyota land cruiser in one full up. At some point America needs to wake up and pursue some REAL alternative fuel for our cars or get into a world war.

11-29-2007, 11:42 AM	#4
L.A. BRONCOS FAN Mo' holla fo' yo' dolla! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a bunker in an undisclosed location Posts: 52,694	That article is a sneak preview of our own future.

11-29-2007, 11:51 AM	#8
Meck77 Ring of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,312	Well the only way to get real change is to vote it into office. Which of the presidential candidates is bold enough to really start the process? Hillary? Obama? Edwards? Romney? Huckabee? Ron Paul?

11-29-2007, 03:34 PM	#14
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,486	I think the big war happens when the oil is not needed as much anymore. What are all those countries the rely on oil for their entire revenue going to do when people in USA are driving in hydrogen and electric cars? When Saudi Arabia and Iran don't have oil money they will have nothing but desert and no water. Whose global warming worst for the USA or our enemies? We are the buyers of oil if we start using something else they go out of biz.

11-29-2007, 05:42 PM	#16
enjolras Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,941	http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...=fcx.honda.com Step 1.

11-29-2007, 11:09 PM	#19
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,486	Do I think Bush juiced the WMD to get congress to go along with him? He prob did, but every politician in America thought the same thing since before Bush came along. I don't think Bush cared about that he wanted Saddam and his sons dead period. He would have wanted to take them out either way. Saddam had tried to kill Bushes father and for most men that's enough. IMO that's something most Americans never thought about because you don't think about presidency being that personal between an American political family and another world leader.

11-30-2007, 03:29 AM	#23
cutthemdown A verbis ad verbera Zimm to HOF Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Long Beach Posts: 32,486	LA Broncos I just think a lot of the stuff you argue about is old news now and we have to move foward. Sitting around arguing about why Bush wanted to attack Iraq is moot now. The leadership of that country is dead. In fact I can't remember a war where the President took out a govt and got them killed faster. In those terms war was brutal and effecient in the goal of regime change. Trust me if and when it's a dem in office you won't see me hoping for them to do bad. I'm just to Nationalistic. No matter what I have to pull for us to win.