How Much Safer is Baghdad Now?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

A good article on the reality of the religious fanatical's who make up that country.

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How much safer is Baghdad now?
An arc of neighborhoods in Baghdad may be the true test of better security.
By Sam Dagher | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

from the November 27, 2007 edition

Page 1 of 3

Baghdad - Walid Mahmoud reopened his Napoli Pizzeria last week after shuttering it for more than three years. Situated next to the Green Zone, his restaurant was one of several popular eateries lining a central street that had been a constant target for suicide bombers.

Like many Baghdadis, Mr. Mahmoud says he is heartened by a recent decline in violence. In October, attacks across Iraq dropped 55 percent; civilian fatalities in Baghdad alone have dropped 75 percent compared with June, according to the US military.

But two bombings in the capital since Friday, which killed at least 24 and wounded dozens, were a reminder that the new calm is fragile. In many parts of the city, residents are still arrested by fear, polarized by sectarian divisions, or altogether absent.

Even as life reasserts itself in a few upscale areas such as Karrada and Jadriyah, wide swaths of middle-class western Baghdad remain locked down amid uncertainty over whether progress is lasting or is the result of a brief cease-fire between sectarian militias. An arc of neighborhoods there – Furat, Atibaa, Jihad, Amel, Bayiaa, and Saidiyah – will be forever linked to some of the war's worst turmoil. These areas, some of which the Monitor recently visited, will also offer the truest test of the durability of improving security, say American and Iraqi officials.

US Ambassador Ryan Crocker said last month that what ultimately happens in places like Jihad and other traditionally Sunni-Shiite – but currently segregated – neighborhoods is "critical" for the trend to "continue and solidify."

While violence is down, true peace seems conditional on resolution of a number of explosive issues. Tens of thousands of displaced families hope to return to their homes, and families expect to receive compensation for members who were killed and for damage to property. Yet the Iraqi government has made no meaningful initiatives to push the process ahead.

In some areas, hundreds of ex-Sunni insurgents and even a few Al Qaeda-linked fighters are on the US military's payroll as neighborhood guards. Shiite fighters with the Mahdi Army are also present, to a much smaller extent, in others, but are standing down for now, ordered by radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr to freeze their activities.

More than a dozen fighters and residents interviewed in these neighborhoods say the new dynamic in Baghdad is at least partially due to a cease-fire between rival groups. They are skeptical of truly bridging the divides that have solidified over years of conflict.

Accusations in Amel

One Shiite resident of Amel, Walid Abdul-Jawad, sums up the slightly surreal atmosphere: "It feels like everyone has been tranquilized."

Two other men, both members of a group of Sunni fighters, have their own views of the situation. "It's a cease-fire … and then the two sides will sit down. They will say that we are all wanted terrorists, and we will say the same about them. Ultimately, it will be, 'you live alone and we live alone and no more fighting,' " says Abu Saleh, a fighter in Amel who wears a tan uniform with an arm patch reading "AG," which stands for Amel Guard.

Khalaf, another fighter who gives only his first name, quickly raises problematic issues, though. "The return of the displaced families is one huge bundle of knots," he noted.

The group of fighters is accused by Shiites of planting roadside bombs aimed at both US and Iraqi forces. They are also thought to be responsible for displacing Shiite families from the block known as the "Janabat" – historically, most of the residents there are from the Sunni Janabi tribe – and killing many Shiite residents in the rest of Amel by sniper fire.

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But now, each member of the group is paid $300 a month and issued a badge by US forces stationed nearby that allows him to carry weapons. The Sunni guards have even turned the home of a displaced Shiite family into their makeshift command center in an enclave that is now framed by Shiites on all sides except for an outlet to the airport road, which is heavily guarded by Iraqi forces.

Seven Nissan, once a bustling thoroughfare of stores and businesses, has become the demarcation line between Sunnis and Shiites in Amel. Garbage and debris from numerous car bombs have been removed from the road, but all the shops remain closed. On a visit there last week, not a single pedestrian or car was seen, a chilly reminder of the tenuous peace here.

"What we are doing now was impossible before the cease-fire," says Jabr Salman, a lawyer and Shiite resident of Amel involved in the reconciliation effort, as he drives down Seven Nissan shortly after midday.

"These side streets were death because of the snipers," he adds as he points to the bullet-riddled storefronts on the main road.

Mr. Salman says the one-month-old cease-fire has held up for the most part despite some violations, such as a brief firefight that erupted a few days ago when a Sunni woman returning to inspect her home on the Shiite side was cursed by some angry Shiite neighbors and chased out.

He says that since then, families were told to hold off from returning until a reconciliation council made up of notables from both sides is formed to agree on a mechanism that would secure their safe return and compensate victims' families.

"Ninety percent of the people want peace.… If we have lasting peace here it will spread to other areas – Bayiaa, Saidiyah, and Dora. There will be no place for the virus to breed," says Salman.

The Sunnis want 7,000 families displaced from the Shiite side of Amel to be allowed to return and restitution for eight Sunni mosques that were either looted and destroyed or turned into Shiite houses of worship, according to Sarhan al-Janabi, a Sunni prospective member of the council.

But a main point of contention for Shiites is the Sunni guards now on the US military's payroll. Many Shiites refused to join a Shiite version of the US-sponsored guards program, saying it's the job of security forces – not individual former fighters – to keep the peace.

"I find the US military's solution foolish and simplistic … they are putting fuel next to fire," says Alaa Oweid, another lawyer, who has shunned the proposed reconciliation council. "What's the logic of rewarding the criminals by paying them, dressing them in uniforms, and telling them to protect the neighborhood?"

Mr. Oweid blames the Sunni guards for killing his brother Adel by sniper fire on Oct. 22 as he went up to his home's rooftop to check on the water tank.

Guard screening isn't perfect

A spokesman for the US Army's 1st Battalion, 28th Infantry Regiment, which commands the area, says all guards are screened and vetted, but that the process is not perfect.

"We are continually seeking to refine and improve the recruiting procedures in order to identify potential criminal elements," says Maj. Kirk Luedeke, adding that there are now 1,500 guards in the arc of neighborhoods from Bayiaa to Furat, of whom 58 percent are Sunni and 42 percent are Shiite. There is a total of about 77,000 neighborhood guards, mostly Sunnis, on the US military's payroll across Iraq.

The Sunnis say they do not have faith in the security forces and accuse them of being in league with Mr. Sadr's Mahdi Army militia. "I do not trust them 1 percent," says Muhanad, a Sunni guard who just gave his first name.

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His suspicions may not be unreasonable. In fact, many residents on the Shiite side of Amel have suggested that the Mahdi Army fighters in Amel have simply put away their weapons for now and are streamlining their ranks as they get ready for another battle.

On the edge of Amel near the main gasoline station, which is controlled by the Mahdi Army, black-shirted men could be seen standing at the entrance of a block of homes known as Jamiyat, just a few hundred meters from an Iraqi Army checkpoint.

Deep divisions in Jihad neighborhood

As the Monitor drove westward toward Jihad, the extent of sectarian segregation started to emerge. Knee-high concrete barriers have been erected by the US military at the entrances of several neighborhood blocks.

Hay Saddam, a collection of apartment blocks commissioned by Saddam Hussein in the late 1970s and awarded to intelligence officers, sports figures, and artists, is split now between mixed Sunni-Shiite areas and all-Shiite. Next door to Hay Saddam, a block of homes known as Dhubat and Mukhabarat are all Sunni. Beyond that, there is a swampy no-man's land dubbed "Chechnya" by locals.

Sunni guards from the US-funded program could be seen manning a barricaded position on the rooftop of a building in Dhubat. Directly opposite from them, across the Jihad highway, Shiite guards in the same program stand on a rooftop in Rifaq 1, a block built by Mr. Hussein for his Baath Party members that has become almost all Shiite.

Down Al-Amen al-Qawmi [National Security] Street is a house that has been converted into the headquarters of the Jihad reconciliation council, started just two months ago when its 35 or so council members signed a 13-point reconciliation "pledge." Its activities are largely supported and funded by the local US military unit.

The house sits along a street that was the scene of one of the most brutal episodes of sectarian killing in Baghdad in 2006, during which both Sunnis and Shiites were dragged out of their vehicles and shot following tit-for-tat mosque bombings in the area.

At a meeting of the council, which the Monitor attended, Cpt. Brian Ducote tells the assembled notables and tribal figures that he wants to give them more "legitimacy" and "leverage" among the people of Jihad by releasing detainees and securing funds for projects.

"The reconciliation council has done an extremely effective job in making it not just a cease-fire but a commitment to peace … the spark will become a fire," says Captain Ducote, a native of Atlanta. He says the guard program will be transferred to the Iraqi government next month.

But the council's chief, Taleb al-Rubaie, voices concerns about the tepid financial support so far from the government, itself enmeshed in an internal Sunni-Shiite struggle. He asks Ducote for funds for a public-relations program to promote reconciliation among residents.

While the council has convened for several weeks now, the explosive issue of repatriating families in now segregated areas of Jihad has yet to be tackled.

'Flawed logic' in reconciliation

Ahmed al-Adeeb, owner of one of a handful of stores open on Jihad's once-bustling market street, says there is something "flawed" with the logic of reconciliation being advanced by US troops. He points to homes in the adjacent neighborhood of Atibaa, from which, he says, Sunnis launched attacks on Shiites in Jihad earlier this year and were repulsed by residents and the Mahdi Army.

He says most of the homeowners in upscale Atibaa have long gone and are not even in Iraq. He adds that most of the spacious homes have been occupied by insurgents from the Sunni town of Abu Ghraib further west.

"I told the Americans, bring me the true residents of Atibaa back, and I will reconcile with them," says Mr. Adeeb.

His neighbor, a Shiite who has been displaced from Atibaa, says his wife went back to check on their home last week and found two bullets tied to a string and dangling from the front door.

The Sunni guards in Atibaa, once a mixed area, accuse his son of being with the Mahdi Army. The son is also in the same US-funded guard program, but on the Shiite side.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

But Beerslug...

Don't you know we're "winning" in Iraq now and that General Petraeus is being hailed by the Bush faithful as a modern-day Vespasianus?

Put down that newspaper and turn on Fox!

[cutthemdown]

BY NANCY A. YOUSSEF

McClatchy News Service


BAGHDAD --
Outside the Damascus Transport Co. in Baghdad's Salhiyah neighborhood Monday, a dozen or so people sat on their suitcases, looking tired and slightly confused as the bus that had brought them from Syria pulled out for its return run, practically empty.Not long ago, the opposite would have been the case.
''Before,'' said Ali Abbas, who runs Damascus Transport, ``you would find large numbers of Iraqis headed out, with all their belongings. Most carried mattresses, blankets and pieces of furniture. Now the trend has turned: The Iraqis coming back are returning with their furniture and everything they can carry back.''
U.S. and Iraqi officials boast that the returning Iraqis are tangible proof that Baghdad's security situation is improving.
Earlier this month, Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki said 7,000 families had returned to the capital.
Iraqi officials estimate that 46,000 Iraqis have returned to Iraq across the Syrian border, and government and some neighborhood leaders are pushing in television and newspaper interviews for residents to return.
DIFFERENT REASONS
Interviews with the bedraggled arrivals outside Damascus Transport found that their hopes for a peaceful life were real, though their decisions to make the trip back to Baghdad often were driven as much by the difficulties of life in Syria as by news that their old neighborhoods might be safe now.
In Syria, where 2 million Iraqi refuges have strained services and the economy, officials have imposed new entry rules.
Iraqis who already were there found their visas expiring. Unable to work, they saw their savings soon depleted, with little recourse once the money ran out.
CAN'T AFFORD BRIBES
Marwa Sadiq, 21, with eight suitcases at her feet, said she might never have made the 12-hour bus ride if she'd been able to pay the bribe needed to fend off Syrian officials.
But her father, who had stayed in Baghdad when she fled to Syria, summoned her home when he began keeping his shop open all day, not just for a few hours. That, he decided, was a sign that things were safer.
Sadiq, who had fled Iraq 11 months ago after a large explosion near her home, said she had been unconvinced until she crossed the border and didn't encounter any trouble on the road. ''There was a tentative hope that the security situation really is getting better, and that the return to Iraq was not a death sentence,'' she said.
FEAR, HAPPINESS
Coming into Baghdad was a sweet mixture of fear and what she called 'the overwhelming happiness of being home again, of not being a stranger, a refugee, anymore, but a `family member.' ''
''It's the most beautiful feeling,'' she said.
Mustafa Mohammed, 23, and his family had been in Damascus for 10 months after fleeing their home in the western Baghdad neighborhood of Jihad.
They decided to come home when neighbors told them it was safe.
''We heard that seven families on our street in Jihad are returning to their homes. They say the security in the neighborhood is better,'' Mohammed said.
NOT SAFE FOR ALL
Iraqi and U.S. officials acknowledge that the situation is fragile.
There are horror stories such as that told by Soad al Obeidi, 24, whose family returned a few weeks ago to Dora, one of Baghdad's most dangerous neighborhoods.
UNCLES KILLED
Last week, her husband's uncles, who had come home at her father-in-law's urging, were shot dead as they hailed a taxi.
''One week before the incident, people had started to open their shops. But after the shooting, all the shops closed and no one reopened his shop again. They all feel afraid because they knew that the security situation was not improved at all,'' al Obeidi said.
``And my father-in-law feels so guilty.''
But those stories aren't likely to keep people from coming home, said Abbas, the Damascus Transport manager.
For now, he'll keep sending his buses back to Damascus empty as soon as they drop their passengers in Baghdad.
''Many of them are somehow relieved to be returning home,'' he said, as another empty bus headed for Syria.
McClatchy Newspapers special correspondents Sahar Issa, Laith Hammoudi and Jenan Hussein contributed to this report.

[TailgateNut]

Do you even take the time to read the **** you post?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

Do you even take the time to read the **** you post?

If he were to actually do his homework, he would realize that those refugees returning to Iraq are coming back because the Syrian government kicked them out - not because GeeDubya has transformed Iraq into Mayberry.

[Bob]

Bronco Beerslug's governing principles:

1. America is Evil
2. As we are evil, we must loose, and by loosing I will feel better -- (a type of secular flagellation.)
3. Do what I can to talk down any real progress, use deflection, or change what it means to make progress.
4. Work hard for my ideological club and use any traitorous approach needed for a short-term win in 08 – Yeah go team!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bob

Bronco Beerslug's governing principles:

1. America is Evil
2. As we are evil, we must loose, and by loosing I will feel better -- (a type of secular flagellation.)
3. Do what I can to talk down any real progress, use deflection, or change what it means to make progress.
4. Work hard for my ideological club and use any traitorous approach needed for a short-term win in 08 – Yeah go team!

Ha ha ha!

The Bush Lemming's 'governing principle:'

When you are losing the debate and your president's approval numbers are circling the drain, just reach for the trusty "hate Bush's policies = hate America" straw man.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Reporters say Baghdad too dangerous despite surge

http://www.reuters.com/article/lates...496676?sp=true

WASHINGTON, Nov 28 (Reuters) - Nearly 90 percent of U.S. journalists in Iraq say much of Baghdad is still too dangerous to visit, despite a recent drop in violence attributed to the build-up of U.S. forces, a poll released on Wednesday said.

The survey by the Washington-based Pew Research Center showed that many U.S. journalists believe coverage has painted too rosy a picture of the conflict.

A separate Pew poll released on Tuesday showed that 48 percent of Americans believe the U.S. military effort in Iraq is going very or fairly well, up from 34 percent in June, amid signs of declining Iraqi civilian casualties and progress against Islamist militants such as al Qaeda in Iraq.

But most journalists said they believe violence and the threat of violence have increased during their tenures.

Much of the danger for journalists is faced by local Iraqis, who often do most of the reporting outside Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone, the data showed.

Fifty-eight percent of U.S. news organizations have had local Iraqi staff killed or kidnapped within the past year, the survey said. About two-thirds of news outlets said local staff face physical or verbal threats at least several times a month.

"Above all, the journalists -- most of them veteran war correspondents -- describe conditions in Iraq as the most perilous they have ever encountered, and this above everything else is influencing the reporting," the authors said in a report that accompanied the data.

At least 122 journalists and 41 media support staff have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, the New-York based Committee to Protect Journalists says. About 85 percent of those killed were Iraqis.

Pew's Project for Excellence in Journalism surveyed 111 journalists who have worked in Iraq for 29 news organizations, all but one of them U.S.-based. The poll was conducted Sept. 28 through Nov. 7, Pew said.

HIGH MARKS FOR REPORTING EFFORT

Pew had tried to reach a total of 181 journalists, which it believes are nearly all those who have covered Iraq for American news organizations.

The journalists gave high marks to the overall reporting effort, with 74 percent rating news-gathering as good or excellent. The highest marks went to coverage of U.S. troops and the war against insurgents.

Despite claims by U.S. officials that reporting from Iraq is negatively biased, 70 percent of those surveyed believe overall coverage is accurate, while 15 percent say the coverage makes the situation look better than it is.

Forty-four percent of journalists believe reporting has treated the Bush administration fairly, while 43 percent said coverage has been too easy on U.S. officials.

But the data also showed that 67 percent are at least somewhat concerned that the accuracy and completeness of their reports have suffered because of ongoing security problems that limit their access to the country.

President George W. Bush's so-called surge strategy to stabilize Baghdad and its environs has been credited with a fall-off in attacks on Iraqi civilians and U.S. coalition forces over the past two months.

But 87 percent of respondents said at least half of Baghdad remains too dangerous for a Western journalist to visit, with the capital's Shi'ite-dominated Sadr City enclave rated the most dangerous spot in Iraq. Eighteen percent said the entire city of Baghdad is too dangerous for travel.

Most U.S. journalists have traveled to danger spots such as Sadr City, either under the protection of private security guards or the U.S. military.

"Eight in 10 journalists believe conditions have deteriorated for reporters since their own first posting in the country," the survey's authors said.

Under-reported subjects of the war include the plight of Iraqi civilians, Shi'ite-on-Shi'ite violence in southern Iraq and general events occurring outside Baghdad, journalists said. (Editing by Alister Bull and David Alexander)

[Bob]

Yes, trust "journalists."

"90% say that much of Baghdad is too danerous to visit" That I can believe -- they stay in thier little enclaves, admit they dont go out, and report preconcieved notions, and the drivel that will kill some Americans, and invest in short-term political gains, and then quickly crawl back into their hole.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bob

Yes, trust "journalists."

"90% say that much of Baghdad is too danerous to visit" That I can believe -- they stay in thier little enclaves, admit they dont go out, and report preconcieved notions, and the drivel that will kill some Americans, and invest in short-term political gains, and then quickly crawl back into their hole.

From the article:

At least 122 journalists and 41 media support staff have been killed in Iraq since the U.S.- led invasion in 2003, the New-York based Committee to Protect Journalists says. About 85 percent of those killed were Iraqis.

Once again, Bob's claims are at odds with the facts.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bob

Yes, trust "journalists."

Bob sez: Don't trust journalists - unless they're of the Fox News variety who tell you we're winning in Iraq and that GeeDubya = Churchill.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Bob

Bronco Beerslug's governing principles:

1. America is Evil
2. As we are evil, we must loose, and by loosing I will feel better -- (a type of secular flagellation.)
3. Do what I can to talk down any real progress, use deflection, or change what it means to make progress.
4. Work hard for my ideological club and use any traitorous approach needed for a short-term win in 08 – Yeah go team!

Just another texass turd, just like Dumbya! Do you bumkins have a f-in mind of your own?

[Bob]

Yes, all Texans are bad.

Bush, Bad, Bush, Bad.

The difference between us, is that I can critcise my own -- you guys frequently do not -- thus it is about short term political gains, and being invested in defeat.

Its sad, and traitorous in my mind.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Bob

Bronco Beerslug's governing principles:

1. America is Evil
2. As we are evil, we must loose, and by loosing I will feel better -- (a type of secular flagellation.)
3. Do what I can to talk down any real progress, use deflection, or change what it means to make progress.
4. Work hard for my ideological club and use any traitorous approach needed for a short-term win in 08 – Yeah go team!

Are you really as dense as you appear at times? Refute the article I posted , if you can. Otherwise you just come off as some dumbass, ignorant Bushbot.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bob

Yes, all Texans are bad.

Bush, Bad, Bush, Bad.

The difference between us, is that I can critcise my own -- you guys frequently do not -- thus it is about short term political gains, and being invested in defeat.

Its sad, and traitorous in my mind.

all I can say is , if the shoe fits wear it .........
Been over this a million times already once more wont hurt . You are 100% correct , Bush does have a traitorous mind , Bush and his ilk sold out a CIA Agent , then invaded a country for no ****ing reason setting up Haliburton and blackwater real nice , yet under his ****ing administration , they ask for the signing bonus back from the injured , out Health care for Vets isnt fit for a ****ing rat ....... dont remember a Democrat doing any of this .........

[Spider]

I know Bob you are just trying to score points for your club , but it is clear to me that we have a different definition of love .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bob

The difference between us, is that I can critcise my own -- you guys frequently do not -- thus it is about short term political gains, and being invested in defeat.

Its sad, and traitorous in my mind.

This from the same partisan shill who just tried to erect the old "disagree with Bush's policies = hate America" straw man?

Ha ha ha!

That's rich.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by Bob

Yes, all Texans are bad.

Bush, Bad, Bush, Bad.

The difference between us, is that I can critcise my own -- you guys frequently do not -- thus it is about short term political gains, and being invested in defeat.

Its sad, and traitorous in my mind.

Ah, you really are a Bushbot, I thought so.

You're either with us or against us, eh Bob?

[Bronco Bob]

Ron Paul made an interesting point in the debate on CNN tonight.
The parts of Iraq where there is the least violence in Iraq are
the parts the US has no control over, the southern part of Iraq,
which is controlled by the Shi'ite militias such as Sadr's militia,
and the nothern part of Iraq, which is controlled by the Kurds
and their militias. The point Ron Paul was making is that if
we got out of Iraq, the Iraqis would have all of their country
back and the violence would cease in all of Iraq.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Ron Paul made an interesting point in the debate on CNN tonight.
The parts of Iraq where there is the least violence in Iraq are
the parts the US has no control over, the southern part of Iraq,
which is controlled by the Shi'ite militias such as Sadr's militia,
and the nothern part of Iraq, which is controlled by the Kurds
and their militias. The point Ron Paul was making is that if
we got out of Iraq, the Iraqis would have all of their country
back and the violence would cease in all of Iraq.

That is the reality we are dealing with .......

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Ron Paul made an interesting point in the debate on CNN tonight.
The parts of Iraq where there is the least violence in Iraq are
the parts the US has no control over, the southern part of Iraq,
which is controlled by the Shi'ite militias such as Sadr's militia,
and the nothern part of Iraq, which is controlled by the Kurds
and their militias. The point Ron Paul was making is that if
we got out of Iraq, the Iraqis would have all of their country
back and the violence would cease in all of Iraq.

Yet, Bush and his clones will claim victory is just around the bend. What a bunch of baffoons, the whole lot of them.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by TailgateNut

Yet, Bush and his clones will claim victory is just around the bend.

They have been making this claim since Smirky McFlightsuit landed on that aircraft carrier.

[The Lone Bolt]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Ron Paul made an interesting point in the debate on CNN tonight.
The parts of Iraq where there is the least violence in Iraq are
the parts the US has no control over, the southern part of Iraq,
which is controlled by the Shi'ite militias such as Sadr's militia,
and the nothern part of Iraq, which is controlled by the Kurds
and their militias. The point Ron Paul was making is that if
we got out of Iraq, the Iraqis would have all of their country
back and the violence would cease in all of Iraq.

Those areas are largely peaceful because the Kurds have control over their oil and the Shia have control over their oil and the Sunnis in the meantime feel disinfranchised. The Sunnis ruled over Iraq for decades and now they have seen all that power go up in smoke. Furthermore the Sunni region of Iraq is the only region without significant oil reserves. Those I believe are the main causes of the violence in central Iraq, not the presence of American troops.

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Ron Paul made an interesting point in the debate on CNN tonight.
The parts of Iraq where there is the least violence in Iraq are
the parts the US has no control over, the southern part of Iraq,
which is controlled by the Shi'ite militias such as Sadr's militia,
and the nothern part of Iraq, which is controlled by the Kurds
and their militias. The point Ron Paul was making is that if
we got out of Iraq, the Iraqis would have all of their country
back and the violence would cease in all of Iraq.

Ooops! We're not supposed to see the man behind the curtain. Did you notice how quickly the rest of the candidates jumped back on their "This isn't like Vietnam - if we leave, they'll come after us," mantra? To actually look at the situation with the cold, hard eyes of reality is not to the advantage of these politicians running for office. The emotion fueled by paranoia gets you more votes. And there are plenty of sheep out there, like Bob, who suck it up.