Christians in 1200 AD = 26% of Muslims in 2007

[Bob]

In 1200 AD a large percentage of Christians thought it was ok to use the "kill or convert route." In 2007 a large percentage of Muslims still feel that way.

If you have “a problem” with Christians for any number of reasons, it is your right to feel that way. Christians know they are hypocrites, and some us try not to be... too many Mormons will vote for Romney just because he is LDS, (kinda like folks voting for or against Hilary just becuase she is a woman) too many Christians vote on just one issue, and with the Republican party, without considering the individual candidate. Too many Christians judge first, and think they are better than others. But I don’t know how bad it is to know that as a group we have problems. The golden rule is hard for folks – even those who believe that rule came from God.

To what level are you willing to go to enforce your convictions on another? Every “group” has committed this sin – including my own. Discussion is fine, disagreements are great, I guess even yelling at each other is better than some alternatives. But when ANY side picks up the sword to enforce that "conviction" of faith or non-faith -- that has to be defined as evil.

Based on Pew research polls, and what some LEADERS of Muslim mosques (in and out of the USA) and prominent leaders in Muslim countries have said I think it IS Fair to say that the percentage of Muslims that are willing to force to convert, is much higher than the Christian people and nations. Those that dislike Christian nut jobs (like me) -- have many reasons for it, some have been treated like pigs by pigs who profess faith – Hypocrisy is hard to stomach.

But this is where it gets hard -- I shouldn’t paint all Muslims with a broad brush depicting them as all violent – most of the time I try to make a clear distinction -- but the percentage is 26% (from what I have been able to research.) in America who think it is ok to use violence to fulfill religious or political ends against civilians. To me that is a huge, largely ignored number – whereas the one Baptist mother who freaks out and drowns her kids gets more air time than, Violent "Muslim" acts in America, like what happened in a Salt Lake City mall.

It seems incongruent to spend more time on the 1% of Christians who commit horrific acts in the name of God, and less time on the much larger percentage of Muslims, who in the name of their God kill hundreds of children in Russia, after raping them, and throwing their dead bodies out of the windows of that school. Is it self-loathing, hating the foundational history of the USA, is it hip to be perversely introspective to the point of ignoring any evil committed by everyone else? Is this some weird secular form of penance -ie white guilt? I just hope you say your “Hail Mary’s” fast enough, so you can join us again and start bailing out the water that is coming through the Titanic we are depending on for our survival. America is good, we can do great things, we are the most generous nation in the world.

Those who dislike Christians (for what ever reason) should not paint them as "convert or die" folks, if a much smaller percentage of Christians are willing to use violence to convert. When Rosie says she is just as threatened by radical Christians -- I hope she is talking about political clout and that's it.

In 2007 what is that number of "kill or convert" Christians in the USA and world? I suspect it is less than 1%. If there are some Christians who dare to express our views as loudly as those who do not have faith, or try to convince someone their is a God -- you may hate that freedom we have, given by the founding Fathers (I would say given by Creator) but we have it, as you have the right to tell us to get the hell of my porch.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bob

In 1200 AD a large percentage of Christians thought it was ok to use the "kill or convert route." In 2007 a large percentage of Muslims still feel that way.

If you have “a problem” with Christians for any number of reasons, it is your right to feel that way. Christians know they are hypocrites, and some us try not to be... .

It isnt that Bob, it is the condemnation( look I used a big word) that Christians pass off as they stand in judgment of any other life style they dont agree with.....

[Bob]

I can see that. Do have a problem with the paternal "hate the sin, love the sinner approach as well?"

We all have a moral center -- those things we cant tolerate. I will always think that Molesters are evil and should not be allowed as part of society for example. To the degree that I can live up to "the live and let live motto" I do, but that does not mean accepting all behavor as equal. When folks post a picture of a guy at an entranceway with a gun in plain view and two Mormon missionaries, and the phrase "resist temptation" I try to not over-react, even when the implication is that some folks have to "resist" not killing someone like me. Tolaorance cuts both ways. There are some folks that talk about tolorance, when actually they mean shut your pie hole, let me "molest children" -- as for me I will speak out on issues when the evil in it is clear to me.

But if someone is gay for example, how should I treat them -- I hope with the same respect I treat all folks. Or if some gal is sleeping around and cheating on her husband-- I can still think that she is sinning (and stupid) without "hating her." Is that judging her? -- It is judging the behavor and letting God sort out the mess of all of our lives on the other side -- he can judge the person. I think there are folks who are not of a religious bent who assume that I have to hate both the sin, and the person committing the act. It helps for me knowing at least some of my faults -- so why should I hate folks when I have my own issues? Most of the time I can do this, sometimes I am too immature.

[Taco John]

Honestly, I just don't care what muslims think. They don't frighten me. I'm much more afraid of insiders within the US government selling out our national soverignty because they'll make out like bandits over the deal.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

It isnt that Bob, it is the condemnation( look I used a big word) that Christians pass off as they stand in judgment of any other life style they dont agree with.....

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Honestly, I just don't care what muslims think. They don't frighten me. I'm much more afraid of insiders within the US government selling out our national soverignty because they'll make out like bandits over the deal.

Big time rep. More-over anti-Muslim hysteria plays right into their hands.
Because they can justify their secret dealings in the name of national
security.

[Rohirrim]

I say we wipe out every mosque on earth and every mullah. Then, we wipe our every church, synagogue, temple, priest, shaman, rabbi, "holy" book, icon, etc.etc.etc. Obliterate religion from the face of the Earth.

The world would be a whole lot better off.

Then, we tell God, "Okay, God. We've gotten rid of all the crap. If you want us to worship you, enough with the hide and seek carnival of guilt and shame. Show up and give us the goods or disappear, because we're tired of fighting and dying over your crap."

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Honestly, I just don't care what muslims think. They don't frighten me. I'm much more afraid of insiders within the US government selling out our national soverignty because they'll make out like bandits over the deal.

We are Oceania. We must fight the War on Terrorism. We must fight the War on Drugs. We must fight forever. We are always at war. Eurasia and Eastasia will never surrender. They will always seek to attack us. There is no recourse but to fight. Forever.

[baja]

If you want to see what "The war on" anything brings ya watch this.

http://www.thesecret.tv/

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Taco John

Honestly, I just don't care what muslims think. They don't frighten me. I'm much more afraid of insiders within the US government selling out our national soverignty because they'll make out like bandits over the deal.

These folks battle back and forth in my mind for number one and two depending on my level of parania.

To the degree the American people are sold-out by the politicians, that iincreases the likelihood that we are vunerable from not only zealots, but from the border, and any number of "threats."

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I say we wipe out every mosque on earth and every mullah. Then, we wipe our every church, synagogue, temple, priest, shaman, rabbi, "holy" book, icon, etc.etc.etc. Obliterate religion from the face of the Earth.

The world would be a whole lot better off.

Then, we tell God, "Okay, God. We've gotten rid of all the crap. If you want us to worship you, enough with the hide and seek carnival of guilt and shame. Show up and give us the goods or disappear, because we're tired of fighting and dying over your crap."

The root of what you hate, is also in you -- in spades.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bob

I can see that. Do have a problem with the paternal "hate the sin, love the sinner approach as well?"

We all have a moral center -- those things we cant tolerate. I will always think that Molesters are evil and should not be allowed as part of society for example. To the degree that I can live up to "the live and let live motto" I do, but that does not mean accepting all behavor as equal. When folks post a picture of a guy at an entranceway with a gun in plain view and two Mormon missionaries, and the phrase "resist temptation" I try to not over-react, even when the implication is that some folks have to "resist" not killing someone like me. Tolaorance cuts both ways. There are some folks that talk about tolorance, when actually they mean shut your pie hole, let me "molest children" -- as for me I will speak out on issues when the evil in it is clear to me.

But if someone is gay for example, how should I treat them -- I hope with the same respect I treat all folks. Or if some gal is sleeping around and cheating on her husband-- I can still think that she is sinning (and stupid) without "hating her." Is that judging her? -- It is judging the behavor and letting God sort out the mess of all of our lives on the other side -- he can judge the person. I think there are folks who are not of a religious bent who assume that I have to hate both the sin, and the person committing the act. It helps for me knowing at least some of my faults -- so why should I hate folks when I have my own issues? Most of the time I can do this, sometimes I am too immature.

let me clear this up , we all judge , we wont admit it but we do , what i am talking about for example , Bob an spider meet up at a truckstop talk and finally meet ,Bob sees Spider is flirting with a waitress , Bob leans over and says , Spider you are fornicating , you are going to hell ..........And then starts telling Spider how to behave and live a virtuous life ... thats the stuff I am talking about Bob

[Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Bob

The root of what you hate, is also in you -- in spades.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

let me clear this up , we all judge , we wont admit it but we do , what i am talking about for example , Bob an spider meet up at a truckstop talk and finally meet ,Bob sees Spider is flirting with a waitress , Bob leans over and says , Spider you are fornicating , you are going to hell ..........And then starts telling Spider how to behave and live a virtuous life ... thats the stuff I am talking about Bob

Fornicating is different than flirting last time I heard anyway...

If a good freind who is married is flirting (big time,) I would think less of them sure -- wouldnt you? But, as far as meeting you at a truckstop and it leading to a sermon -- nope, or telling you how to lead your life -- my guess is that most Christains hold thier view point pretty close to thier vest --- especially in those situations.

I have a sister who moved to Canada and has renounced her citizenship -- that fine by me, but what I hate is that she spends all of her time telling me how evil the USA is, and trying to convert me to her ideological framework. Its not like, I can just say “hey live and let live sis" -- which would be more than enough for me, if I over-stepped -- she rams her Values down everyone's throats -- so again, this stuff does cut both ways. Its good to share your thoughts and convictions, but when someone says no thanks, you sure better honor that. You have some numb-nut above who posted about erasing all people of faith from the planet -- he is left of center, and inclusive of only those of his stripe. He is (if he really believes his own words) almost as bad as the 26% of Muslim fanatics, or Christians who have a kill or convert mentality. Bigotry and violence is not owned by Christianity, Muslims, or Socialists – it is one of the sad states of humanity – to “force” another in spiritual or political matters is not “conversion – it is compulsion – and in spiritual terms -- a person who is compelled to follow a path has had their free-will violated, it is a type of rape of another’s will. THAT is what I object to in the 26% of Islam, and any other sect, or non-religious group out there. Spider, the truth is I would buy you some coffee, we would have a great talk, and we would likely respect each other more after hanging out. You might find me a bit Ned Flanders, but that’s a risk I take every day when I leave my home.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by Rohirrim

I say we wipe out every mosque on earth and every mullah. Then, we wipe our every church, synagogue, temple, priest, shaman, rabbi, "holy" book, icon, etc.etc.etc. Obliterate religion from the face of the Earth.

The world would be a whole lot better off.

Then, we tell God, "Okay, God. We've gotten rid of all the crap. If you want us to worship you, enough with the hide and seek carnival of guilt and shame. Show up and give us the goods or disappear, because we're tired of fighting and dying over your crap."

What you want to wipe out is oppression huh? What you hate is all of those close minded, judgmental violent folks right? This is the most intellectually incongruent post I have ever seen.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bob

Fornicating is different than flirting last time I heard anyway...

If a good freind who is married is flirting (big time,) I would think less of them sure -- wouldnt you? But, as far as meeting you at a truckstop and it leading to a sermon -- nope, or telling you how to lead your life -- my guess is that most Christains hold thier view point pretty close to thier vest --- especially in those situations.

I have a sister who moved to Canada and has renounced her citizenship -- that fine by me, but what I hate is that she spends all of her time telling me how evil the USA is, and trying to convert me to her ideological framework. Its not like, I can just say “hey live and let live sis" -- which would be more than enough for me, if I over-stepped -- she rams her Values down everyone's throats -- so again, this stuff does cut both ways. Its good to share your thoughts and convictions, but when someone says no thanks, you sure better honor that. You have some numb-nut above who posted about erasing all people of faith from the planet -- he is left of center, and inclusive of only those of his stripe. He is (if he really believes his own words) almost as bad as the 26% of Muslim fanatics, or Christians who have a kill or convert mentality. Bigotry and violence is not owned by Christianity, Muslims, or Socialists – it is one of the sad states of humanity – to “force” another in spiritual or political matters is not “conversion – it is compulsion – and in spiritual terms -- a person who is compelled to follow a path has had their free-will violated, it is a type of rape of another’s will. THAT is what I object to in the 26% of Islam, and any other sect, or non-religious group out there. Spider, the truth is I would buy you some coffee, we would have a great talk, and we would likely respect each other more after hanging out. You might find me a bit Ned Flanders, but that’s a risk I take every day when I leave my home.

I didnt mean you , I was using us as an example , we had a driver leased on with us that would give a sermon everytime he saw something he didnt like ..... I would buy the coffee though , that way I know I dont have to put out
I wouldnt care if you was a Ned flanders ,I would never try and change your beliefs , I just wouldnt adopt them as my own

[Bob]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

I didnt mean you , I was using us as an example , we had a driver leased on with us that would give a sermon everytime he saw something he didnt like ..... I would buy the coffee though , that way I know I dont have to put out
I wouldnt care if you was a Ned flanders ,I would never try and change your beliefs , I just wouldnt adopt them as my own

Amen brother, sometime I would like to take you up on that actually...it would be cool to meet some on this board.

It has been awhile since I have been through the wind-tunnel you call a state.