QB Comparisons - The Orange Mane

Smelvin · 10-26-2007, 01:02 PM

I don't post much, but someone in another thread made mention of the Brady/Montana, Manning/Marino comparisons and I've always thought that subject is pretty interesting and can actually be expanded to other QB's.

I've always thought that the current top QB's in the game resemble the greats of the 80's in almost an eery fashion.

Brady is Joe

Moderate arm strength, good enough mobility (although Joe was pretty mobile in his early days), silky smooth under pressure, not the most toolsy QB's but flat out winners. All about the rings.

Peyton is Marino

All about stats. Passing yards, TD's and more passing yards. Peyton finally getting a ring put a small rinkle intot he comparison, but for the most part have been more about stats than anything else.

Vick is Steve Young

Lefthanded, better runners than passers, would rather run than pass any day. Obvious difference is Young is extremely cerebral (off the field) and Vick is dumber than a pile of bricks. Young, however, was never quite as smart on the field as he is off of it, and relied more on athleticism.

McNabb is Elway

I am talking about the pre-injured McNabb. Awesome arm, uncanny mobility, ability to make any throw from anywhere on the field, ability to take his team on his shoulders, was more dangerous outside the pocket. Again...McNabb NOW doesn't sniff Elway's skillset, but before he got hurt his overall game was similar to John's (albeit not as good). McNabb, more than any other QB today, could completely take his team on his shoulders.

Big Ben is Kelly

Big, strong, pocket QB who can make any throw. LB's playing QB.

VY is Randall

Like the Young/Vick comparison, better runners than passers. The only different from Young/ Vick is these guys are bigger and right-handed.

Carson Plamer is Jim Everett

Big stat guy, always in the league leaders, looks great delivering the ball, hasn't won anything

Chad Pennington is Phil Simms

Weak arm, limited mobility, these guys were/are as good as the talent around them. Simms was obviously on much better team, but neither guy does much for me. Maybe a stretch, but I couldn't think of anyone else.

Leftwich is Kosar

Not really a fair comparison since Bernie got it done (ahem, until the AFC champ game)...but what these guys had in common is they can't move if their life depended on it. Bricks for feet, which makes me wonder even more how Bernie lasted as long as he did

Romo is Moon

Too small of a sample size to really compare Romo to anyone, but they are both pocket passers who have big arms and pile up the stats.

Anyhow - go to town on this one. I'm sure I'm missing a lot and will get ripped, but I thought it was a fun subject to talk about.

AND I didn't forget about Cutler, but in my opinion he resembles Elway more than anyone else, and I didn't want to go there.

bowtown · 10-26-2007, 01:08 PM

Croyle = Dave Brown

yavoon · 10-26-2007, 01:12 PM

calling vick like steve young is an ENORMOUS insult to steve young, who was an awesome passing qb. that'd be like comparing terrell davis to reuben droughns, "hey they both run hard!"

broncofan2438 · 10-26-2007, 01:14 PM

Cutler=Badass

Smelvin · 10-26-2007, 01:14 PM

Try to remember Steve Young in his early days. At Tampa and even his first few years with the Niners. He evolved eventually into an adequate passer, but any Niner fan would tell he was a far better QB than he was a pure passer.

Smelvin · 10-26-2007, 01:21 PM

Oh yeah...

Vinny = Vinny

yavoon · 10-26-2007, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smelvin

Try to remember Steve Young in his early days. At Tampa and even his first few years with the Niners. He evolved eventually into an adequate passer, but any Niner fan would tell he was a far better QB than he was a pure passer.

adequate? he has the all time mark for passer rating over a career. so basically vick is sorta like the highest rated passer ever? yah right.

there's some joking about jocks and holding them in here somewhere.

7 4ever · 10-26-2007, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smelvin

Oh yeah...

Vinny = Vinny

As for the SY - MV comparison, I'm not sure, I really remember Steve Young as a QB that had it all, he didn't have a rocket for an arm, but he had a decent mid range arm and he was as accurate as it gets, I would even dare to say that talent wise he should be put ahead of Montana; Ron Mexico on the other hand...well he should be pretty accurate tossing stones in jail

Jason in LA · 10-26-2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yavoon

calling vick like steve young is an ENORMOUS insult to steve young, who was an awesome passing qb. that'd be like comparing terrell davis to reuben droughns, "hey they both run hard!"

This is probably the first time I've ever agreed with you (and probably the last time).

Steve Young was a great passer who ran when he needed to.

Broncoman13 · 10-26-2007, 01:33 PM

Steve Young was far more than an "adequate" passer. Until recently he was the highest rated QB in NFL history.

G
169 GS
143 COMP
2667 ATT
4149 PCT
64.3 YDS
33124 YDS/A
7.98 LNG
97t TD
232 INT
107 RAT
96.8 ATT
722 YDS
4239 AVG
5.9 LNG
49t TD
43

Broncoman13 · 10-26-2007, 01:35 PM

The rest though was pretty good.

I'd say the better comp for Bernie Kosar would be Philip Rivers. Choke in the playoffs (kidding...kinda), poor delivery, great TE's, fairly successful, etc.

Jason in LA · 10-26-2007, 01:40 PM

To add on to the Steve Young point, I think he's one of the most underrated QBs ever. That guy was a great passer who could buy extra time by running. The only thing keeping him in Montana's shadow is the early 90s Cowboys. I don't think Montana would have beat those Cowboy teams. It's a very unpopular opinion, but I'd take Steve Young over Montana any day. But Montana has to go before Young because of the Super Bowls. That's the main reason why Montana goes ahead of every QB. And why Brady has climbed up the latter. People act like those guys put their teams on their backs and won it all by themselves. I'd take Elway, Young, Marino, Farve, and Manning over Montana and Brady. That's just my personal opinion. Being 4-0 in Super Bowls will put you at the head of the class, even if there were better QBs. Put Elway on those Niners teams and they win just as much, if not more. Put Marino on those Niners teams and he has some Super Bowl wins.

Smelvin · 10-26-2007, 01:42 PM

Steve Young definitely had the stats to render the comparison completely out of whack. However, that Niner system also made Steve Bono and Elvis Grebac look like pro-bowlers...enough to completely fool a team run by fools to give them big contracts. What team was that again

But I will agree that as QB's, and their entire package, Vick does not belong in the discussion with Young. However, Young, in a different system, without the talent around him, the "system", (don't forget, Shanny was his O-coord)..he doesn't sniff that passer rating mark.

And from a running QB point of view....Vick and Young were the best of all time. RUNNING QB's...not scrambling, whihc is a completely different skillset. When Vick and Young were in the open field they were dynamic...and they both would rather run than pass. Again, any Niner would second that.

HorseHead · 10-26-2007, 01:58 PM

great points Jason....

Jason in LA · 10-26-2007, 01:59 PM

Elvis Grbac had one stretch where he looked good with the Niners (kind of like Griese with the Broncos), but lets not get carried away with the Pro Bowl comment. The same goes for Bono. The Niners system and players did make them look better than what they really were, but neither of them were anything special with the Niners. The Chiefs were stupid for throwing all that money at a career backup. Kind of like the Lions with Scott Mitchell.

Young was a special QB. One of the greatest. He doesn't get the credit that he should get because of Montana. Put Young as the starter on those Niner teams throughout the 80s and they win just as much. Put Grbac or Bono on those teams and they might not win anything.

Punisher · 10-26-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowtown

Croyle = Dave Brown

lol

epicSocialism4tw · 10-26-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason in LA

To add on to the Steve Young point, I think he's one of the most underrated QBs ever. That guy was a great passer who could buy extra time by running. The only thing keeping him in Montana's shadow is the early 90s Cowboys. I don't think Montana would have beat those Cowboy teams. It's a very unpopular opinion, but I'd take Steve Young over Montana any day. But Montana has to go before Young because of the Super Bowls. That's the main reason why Montana goes ahead of every QB. And why Brady has climbed up the latter. People act like those guys put their teams on their backs and won it all by themselves. I'd take Elway, Young, Marino, Farve, and Manning over Montana and Brady. That's just my personal opinion. Being 4-0 in Super Bowls will put you at the head of the class, even if there were better QBs. Put Elway on those Niners teams and they win just as much, if not more. Put Marino on those Niners teams and he has some Super Bowl wins.

Agreed on all counts.

Jason in LA · 10-26-2007, 02:01 PM

One more thing, put Montana on those Niner teams in the early 90s, and the Cowboys still beat them in the NFC Title game.

Smelvin · 10-26-2007, 02:36 PM

Jason, I basically agree with everything you say.

My only caveat is that it's easy to remember QB's at the end of their prime and assume this is how they played their entire careers. Steve Young was a MUCH better QB (and decision maker) towards the end of his career than he was at the beginning.

In a similar way, so was Elway. John definitely wasn't as athletic towards the end, but he was a much better decision maker. He evolved the crebral part of his game. Now, one reason may be he finally got some good coaching when Shanahan came around, not to mention some talent around him, but the point is still a valid one, IMO. The first 5-7 years of John Elway would not have been a good fit in the Niners West Coast offense that placed a premium on the short passing game, throwing with touch, making quick precise reads/desions. Elway was a gunslinger, loved to improvise and throw downfield...on the run. That just isn't what the WCO is all about. It's all about timing, short slants, touch passes in the flat....those were not John's strength.

Towards the end of John's career he would have been great in the classic WCO, and we saw a variation of it with Shanny (albeit more dependent on the running game than the short passing game), but I just don't think it's as simple as saying "John would have won more rings than Joe had John played on the Niners". But to play the devils advocate to that point...had John been tutored by Bill Walsh from day one, he may have developed the cerebral game and developed more touch at an earlier age. It's something we will never know yet will argue forever...which I love!

And just a caveat...I whole heartdly believe John was the best QB of all time.

bronco militia · 10-26-2007, 03:43 PM

LMAO AT THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!!

bwhahahahaha

get real

bronco militia · 10-26-2007, 03:45 PM

the discussion stops after Manning, Brady, and Favre.

epicSocialism4tw · 10-26-2007, 03:54 PM

At one time or another, you will really have to start accepting that sometimes things do not have to resemble something that you have enjoyed in the past for it to be acceptable.

I think that this is just another example of "good ol' days" syndrome.

Cutler DOES NOT play like Elway. Period. Not in style or substance. Cutler plays like Cutler.

Vince Young is his own player, and is probably closer to Steve Young than Randall Cunningham.

atomicbloke · 10-26-2007, 04:23 PM

IMHO, Cutler = Farve.

Very strong arm with a lot of zip in their throws, burning the receiver's palms. Tendency to throw lots of INTs, but can make the plays with the game on the line late in the 4th Quarter. Clutch on 3rd downs and can carry a team.

orange 4 life · 10-26-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smelvin

I don't post much, but someone in another thread made mention of the Brady/Montana, Manning/Marino comparisons and I've always thought that subject is pretty interesting and can actually be expanded to other QB's.

I've always thought that the current top QB's in the game resemble the greats of the 80's in almost an eery fashion.

Brady is Joe

Moderate arm strength, good enough mobility (although Joe was pretty mobile in his early days), silky smooth under pressure, not the most toolsy QB's but flat out winners. All about the rings.

Peyton is Marino

All about stats. Passing yards, TD's and more passing yards. Peyton finally getting a ring put a small rinkle intot he comparison, but for the most part have been more about stats than anything else.

Vick is Steve Young

McNabb is Elway

you had me until these last two. comparing vick (a talented but always overrated dog killer) and one of the best ever to play (okay, sure, he's not in the top 3 or 4 because he played on a great team and spent his early years in the USFL, but he's also one of the most gifted athletes to play the game) is an insult to young.

comparing mcnabb to elway is downright ridiculous IMHO.
mcnabb doesnt have his arm strength, his pocket presence, his leadership....well, his ANYTHING.

if you wanna compare someone to elway, compare favre to elway.
their styles are similar, and favre has the credentials to at least be mentioned in the same breath.

just my .02,

jake

theAPAOps5 · 10-26-2007, 04:35 PM

Yeah the Vick and McNabb comparisons are way off base.

10-26-2007, 01:02 PM	#1
Smelvin Pro Bowler Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 722	QB Comparisons I don't post much, but someone in another thread made mention of the Brady/Montana, Manning/Marino comparisons and I've always thought that subject is pretty interesting and can actually be expanded to other QB's. I've always thought that the current top QB's in the game resemble the greats of the 80's in almost an eery fashion. Brady is Joe Moderate arm strength, good enough mobility (although Joe was pretty mobile in his early days), silky smooth under pressure, not the most toolsy QB's but flat out winners. All about the rings. Peyton is Marino All about stats. Passing yards, TD's and more passing yards. Peyton finally getting a ring put a small rinkle intot he comparison, but for the most part have been more about stats than anything else. Vick is Steve Young Lefthanded, better runners than passers, would rather run than pass any day. Obvious difference is Young is extremely cerebral (off the field) and Vick is dumber than a pile of bricks. Young, however, was never quite as smart on the field as he is off of it, and relied more on athleticism. McNabb is Elway I am talking about the pre-injured McNabb. Awesome arm, uncanny mobility, ability to make any throw from anywhere on the field, ability to take his team on his shoulders, was more dangerous outside the pocket. Again...McNabb NOW doesn't sniff Elway's skillset, but before he got hurt his overall game was similar to John's (albeit not as good). McNabb, more than any other QB today, could completely take his team on his shoulders. Big Ben is Kelly Big, strong, pocket QB who can make any throw. LB's playing QB. VY is Randall Like the Young/Vick comparison, better runners than passers. The only different from Young/ Vick is these guys are bigger and right-handed. Carson Plamer is Jim Everett Big stat guy, always in the league leaders, looks great delivering the ball, hasn't won anything Chad Pennington is Phil Simms Weak arm, limited mobility, these guys were/are as good as the talent around them. Simms was obviously on much better team, but neither guy does much for me. Maybe a stretch, but I couldn't think of anyone else. Leftwich is Kosar Not really a fair comparison since Bernie got it done (ahem, until the AFC champ game)...but what these guys had in common is they can't move if their life depended on it. Bricks for feet, which makes me wonder even more how Bernie lasted as long as he did Romo is Moon Too small of a sample size to really compare Romo to anyone, but they are both pocket passers who have big arms and pile up the stats. Anyhow - go to town on this one. I'm sure I'm missing a lot and will get ripped, but I thought it was a fun subject to talk about. AND I didn't forget about Cutler, but in my opinion he resembles Elway more than anyone else, and I didn't want to go there. Last edited by Smelvin; 10-26-2007 at 01:05 PM..

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10-26-2007, 01:08 PM	#2
bowtown Ring of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 8,360 Adopt-a-Bronco: Aaron Brewer	Croyle = Dave Brown

10-26-2007, 01:12 PM	#3
yavoon Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,260	calling vick like steve young is an ENORMOUS insult to steve young, who was an awesome passing qb. that'd be like comparing terrell davis to reuben droughns, "hey they both run hard!"

10-26-2007, 01:14 PM	#4
broncofan2438 Faneco this... LETS TAKE BACK THE AFC WEST Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: California Posts: 6,302 Adopt-a-Bronco: ERIC DECKER	Cutler=Badass

10-26-2007, 01:21 PM	#6
Smelvin Pro Bowler Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 722	Oh yeah... Vinny = Vinny

10-26-2007, 01:33 PM	#10
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,962 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	Steve Young was far more than an "adequate" passer. Until recently he was the highest rated QB in NFL history. G 169 GS 143 COMP 2667 ATT 4149 PCT 64.3 YDS 33124 YDS/A 7.98 LNG 97t TD 232 INT 107 RAT 96.8 ATT 722 YDS 4239 AVG 5.9 LNG 49t TD 43

10-26-2007, 01:35 PM	#11
Broncoman13 Broncoholic JT #80 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Colorado Posts: 16,962 Adopt-a-Bronco: Orange Julius	The rest though was pretty good. I'd say the better comp for Bernie Kosar would be Philip Rivers. Choke in the playoffs (kidding...kinda), poor delivery, great TE's, fairly successful, etc.

10-26-2007, 01:40 PM	#12
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,254	To add on to the Steve Young point, I think he's one of the most underrated QBs ever. That guy was a great passer who could buy extra time by running. The only thing keeping him in Montana's shadow is the early 90s Cowboys. I don't think Montana would have beat those Cowboy teams. It's a very unpopular opinion, but I'd take Steve Young over Montana any day. But Montana has to go before Young because of the Super Bowls. That's the main reason why Montana goes ahead of every QB. And why Brady has climbed up the latter. People act like those guys put their teams on their backs and won it all by themselves. I'd take Elway, Young, Marino, Farve, and Manning over Montana and Brady. That's just my personal opinion. Being 4-0 in Super Bowls will put you at the head of the class, even if there were better QBs. Put Elway on those Niners teams and they win just as much, if not more. Put Marino on those Niners teams and he has some Super Bowl wins.

10-26-2007, 01:42 PM	#13
Smelvin Pro Bowler Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 722	Steve Young definitely had the stats to render the comparison completely out of whack. However, that Niner system also made Steve Bono and Elvis Grebac look like pro-bowlers...enough to completely fool a team run by fools to give them big contracts. What team was that again But I will agree that as QB's, and their entire package, Vick does not belong in the discussion with Young. However, Young, in a different system, without the talent around him, the "system", (don't forget, Shanny was his O-coord)..he doesn't sniff that passer rating mark. And from a running QB point of view....Vick and Young were the best of all time. RUNNING QB's...not scrambling, whihc is a completely different skillset. When Vick and Young were in the open field they were dynamic...and they both would rather run than pass. Again, any Niner would second that.

10-26-2007, 01:58 PM	#14
HorseHead Ring of Famer Stay thirsty my friends.. Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Vermont Posts: 1,212 Adopt-a-Bronco: Bay Bay	great points Jason....

10-26-2007, 01:59 PM	#15
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,254	Elvis Grbac had one stretch where he looked good with the Niners (kind of like Griese with the Broncos), but lets not get carried away with the Pro Bowl comment. The same goes for Bono. The Niners system and players did make them look better than what they really were, but neither of them were anything special with the Niners. The Chiefs were stupid for throwing all that money at a career backup. Kind of like the Lions with Scott Mitchell. Young was a special QB. One of the greatest. He doesn't get the credit that he should get because of Montana. Put Young as the starter on those Niner teams throughout the 80s and they win just as much. Put Grbac or Bono on those teams and they might not win anything.

10-26-2007, 02:01 PM	#18
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,254	One more thing, put Montana on those Niner teams in the early 90s, and the Cowboys still beat them in the NFC Title game.

10-26-2007, 02:36 PM	#19
Smelvin Pro Bowler Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 722	Jason, I basically agree with everything you say. My only caveat is that it's easy to remember QB's at the end of their prime and assume this is how they played their entire careers. Steve Young was a MUCH better QB (and decision maker) towards the end of his career than he was at the beginning. In a similar way, so was Elway. John definitely wasn't as athletic towards the end, but he was a much better decision maker. He evolved the crebral part of his game. Now, one reason may be he finally got some good coaching when Shanahan came around, not to mention some talent around him, but the point is still a valid one, IMO. The first 5-7 years of John Elway would not have been a good fit in the Niners West Coast offense that placed a premium on the short passing game, throwing with touch, making quick precise reads/desions. Elway was a gunslinger, loved to improvise and throw downfield...on the run. That just isn't what the WCO is all about. It's all about timing, short slants, touch passes in the flat....those were not John's strength. Towards the end of John's career he would have been great in the classic WCO, and we saw a variation of it with Shanny (albeit more dependent on the running game than the short passing game), but I just don't think it's as simple as saying "John would have won more rings than Joe had John played on the Niners". But to play the devils advocate to that point...had John been tutored by Bill Walsh from day one, he may have developed the cerebral game and developed more touch at an earlier age. It's something we will never know yet will argue forever...which I love! And just a caveat...I whole heartdly believe John was the best QB of all time.

10-26-2007, 03:43 PM	#20
bronco militia Ring of Famer THE GREATEST Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: colorado springs, co Posts: 22,716	LMAO AT THIS THREAD!!!!!!!!! bwhahahahaha get real

10-26-2007, 03:45 PM	#21
bronco militia Ring of Famer THE GREATEST Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: colorado springs, co Posts: 22,716	the discussion stops after Manning, Brady, and Favre.

10-26-2007, 03:54 PM	#22
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	At one time or another, you will really have to start accepting that sometimes things do not have to resemble something that you have enjoyed in the past for it to be acceptable. I think that this is just another example of "good ol' days" syndrome. Cutler DOES NOT play like Elway. Period. Not in style or substance. Cutler plays like Cutler. Vince Young is his own player, and is probably closer to Steve Young than Randall Cunningham.

10-26-2007, 04:23 PM	#23
atomicbloke Ring of Famer La 12 Boca Juniors Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 2,347 Adopt-a-Bronco: Offensive Line	IMHO, Cutler = Farve. Very strong arm with a lot of zip in their throws, burning the receiver's palms. Tendency to throw lots of INTs, but can make the plays with the game on the line late in the 4th Quarter. Clutch on 3rd downs and can carry a team.

10-26-2007, 04:35 PM	#25
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,154 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	Yeah the Vick and McNabb comparisons are way off base.