Defensive Line - The Orange Mane

oubronco · 10-08-2007, 11:04 AM

I was watching the bears game last night and i watched there d-line exclusively and they were putting pressure on favre almost every play and this was without there two best DT from last year and it got me wondering

Why hasn't denver drafted any good D-lineman in the past 10 yrs or so ?

I know the jury is still out on this years class but for a long time now i can't really ever remember them having a D-line that got pressure on a consistant basis is this a drafting war room problem or is that they seem to reach when drafting D-linemen ?

thoughts

Beantown Bronco · 10-08-2007, 11:15 AM

It's probably a tie with WR as the toughest to evaluate.

They've certainly drafted a lot of DLinemen in recent years in the first four rounds....most simply haven't panned out (until this past year, it appears) or they have produced well, but left for more money.

oubronco · 10-08-2007, 11:34 AM

so your saying that the evaluation of players is the problem, so who does the evaluation and how long have they been with the organization and is this mostly shanahan or do they have a special division for this ?

Beantown Bronco · 10-08-2007, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

so your saying that the evaluation of players is the problem, so who does the evaluation and how long have they been with the organization and is this mostly shanahan or do they have a special division for this ?

Two schools of thought:

Scouting + Sunquist + Shanny + defensive coaches? + whoever else in the draftroom has "say" in the draft process = those to blame for poor drafting.

Shanny + coaches = those to blame for not developing talent properly once it's in here.

orinjkrush · 10-08-2007, 11:57 AM

we should copy AJ Smith. that guy knows how to draft.

Rohirrim · 10-08-2007, 11:57 AM

Do anything in life by committee and your outcome will stink.

ward63 · 10-08-2007, 12:18 PM

We need to go this year, what we did a few years ago at corner and instead of trying to search for who the best DL is, just draft 3 or so of them, like we did w/corner. So don't draft one of every position. Draft DL and OL and be like the Eagles.

Bigdawg26 · 10-08-2007, 12:31 PM

Well the d-line that we drafted doesnt play that much for some reason. Engelberger (who has no kind of pass rusher ability and couldnt start for any team except denver) is starting in place of Tim Crowder, and Dumerville is cool at times he makes a play or two. but we got Jarvis Moss as the stand up rusher(I don't know why) that comes in only on third downs. Marcus Thomas is a bit out of football shape, but Amon Gordon (the worst starting DT in the NFL) who literally gets blown off the line every down is starting in front of him. So we should AT LEAST SHAKE UP THE D-LINE next game, but to be honest the defense is playing with no heart and pride (which is what Al Wilson provided). Don't get me wrong DJ Williams is a great linebacker AT THE WEAK SIDE, but he not that good of a MLB. I mean you never saw Derrick Brooks, Lance Briggs, or freakin Shawn Merriamen play MLB, and they are all great linebackers. But I think the D-line should be:
RDE-Elvis Dumerville/ Jarvis Moss rotating every series
RDT-Sam Adams/ Antown Burton (Sam is slow and old get Burton is a DECENT run stuffer)
LDT-Marcus Thomas(just brave the storm with him. Let him learn on the move, and he is better than Amon Gordon)
LDE-Tim Crowder (enough with the Engelberger is consistent crap and put this kid in. At least he can rush the passer)

Bigdawg26 · 10-08-2007, 12:34 PM

O and rotate Simeon Rice with Tim Crowder

oubronco · 10-08-2007, 01:55 PM

do you think that they need to hire a new talent scout and who would be fired and who would be a good replacement ?

rovolution · 10-08-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

do you think that they need to hire a new talent scout and who would be fired and who would be a good replacement ?

well they did bring in Mike Lombardi from the Faide, and im sure he had something to do with building the Faiders D which is pretty good.

Maximus · 10-08-2007, 02:25 PM

Lombardi didn't do any scouting. Lombardi was responsible for the Salary Cap and getting players signed.

Popps · 10-08-2007, 02:29 PM

Did I tell you guys Engleberger sucked?

Though, keep in mind... Ekuban would be the starer, if healthy. Ekuban wasn't dominating, but he was consistent and could play the run. Losing him did hurt this team.

The line has been the bane of this team for years.

fontaine · 10-08-2007, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oubronco

I was watching the bears game last night and i watched there d-line exclusively and they were putting pressure on favre almost every play and this was without there two best DT from last year and it got me wondering

Why hasn't denver drafted any good D-lineman in the past 10 yrs or so ?

I know the jury is still out on this years class but for a long time now i can't really ever remember them having a D-line that got pressure on a consistant basis is this a drafting war room problem or is that they seem to reach when drafting D-linemen ?

thoughts

I think the FO has gone so long in just getting by with sh*t at DL that they thought they could have another year of it until the rookies develop. Believe it or not we've started worse at DL. Remember the two guys we picked up literally days before the season started and stuck them in at DT? Holland and Fatafehi.

Denver's FO didn't do ANYTHING differently in the offseason (except spend better draft picks at DL). They still brought in a ton of questionable or over the hill scrubs like Kennedy, Adams, promoted nobodies like Gordon, Burton and asked the D-Coaches to do the job. Just like they did with Coyer.

How wrong they were.

Maybe this year it'll show Shanahan and the FO that you can't just ignore DL.

ro_50 · 10-08-2007, 03:04 PM

They should just start the rookies (Crowder, Thomas and the youngster Elvis) and just live w/ their mistakes and good plays.

And play Moss more, especially on running downs.

Crushaholic · 10-08-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigdawg26

O and rotate Simeon Rice with Tim Crowder

Leave Simeon Rice on the bench until he can figure out how to shed a freakin' block...

yavoon · 10-08-2007, 05:39 PM

the defensive line is trashed. the only good/promising players are relatively undersized ends. the linebacking core is similarly decimated, now is the time where 3-4 is an opportunity.

10-08-2007, 11:04 AM	#1
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,569	Defensive Line I was watching the bears game last night and i watched there d-line exclusively and they were putting pressure on favre almost every play and this was without there two best DT from last year and it got me wondering Why hasn't denver drafted any good D-lineman in the past 10 yrs or so ? I know the jury is still out on this years class but for a long time now i can't really ever remember them having a D-line that got pressure on a consistant basis is this a drafting war room problem or is that they seem to reach when drafting D-linemen ? thoughts

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10-08-2007, 11:15 AM	#2
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,039 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	It's probably a tie with WR as the toughest to evaluate. They've certainly drafted a lot of DLinemen in recent years in the first four rounds....most simply haven't panned out (until this past year, it appears) or they have produced well, but left for more money.

10-08-2007, 11:34 AM	#3
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,569	so your saying that the evaluation of players is the problem, so who does the evaluation and how long have they been with the organization and is this mostly shanahan or do they have a special division for this ?

10-08-2007, 11:57 AM	#5
orinjkrush ... Prospects for the future... Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DistrictOfCorruption Posts: 4,913 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ben Garland	we should copy AJ Smith. that guy knows how to draft.

10-08-2007, 11:57 AM	#6
Rohirrim Partisan Human Cannonball Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Twixt Hell & Highwater Posts: 48,791	Do anything in life by committee and your outcome will stink.

10-08-2007, 12:18 PM	#7
ward63 The Burner Returner Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 2,160 Adopt-a-Bronco: Quincy Morgan	We need to go this year, what we did a few years ago at corner and instead of trying to search for who the best DL is, just draft 3 or so of them, like we did w/corner. So don't draft one of every position. Draft DL and OL and be like the Eagles.

10-08-2007, 12:31 PM	#8
Bigdawg26 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,475 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	Well the d-line that we drafted doesnt play that much for some reason. Engelberger (who has no kind of pass rusher ability and couldnt start for any team except denver) is starting in place of Tim Crowder, and Dumerville is cool at times he makes a play or two. but we got Jarvis Moss as the stand up rusher(I don't know why) that comes in only on third downs. Marcus Thomas is a bit out of football shape, but Amon Gordon (the worst starting DT in the NFL) who literally gets blown off the line every down is starting in front of him. So we should AT LEAST SHAKE UP THE D-LINE next game, but to be honest the defense is playing with no heart and pride (which is what Al Wilson provided). Don't get me wrong DJ Williams is a great linebacker AT THE WEAK SIDE, but he not that good of a MLB. I mean you never saw Derrick Brooks, Lance Briggs, or freakin Shawn Merriamen play MLB, and they are all great linebackers. But I think the D-line should be: RDE-Elvis Dumerville/ Jarvis Moss rotating every series RDT-Sam Adams/ Antown Burton (Sam is slow and old get Burton is a DECENT run stuffer) LDT-Marcus Thomas(just brave the storm with him. Let him learn on the move, and he is better than Amon Gordon) LDE-Tim Crowder (enough with the Engelberger is consistent crap and put this kid in. At least he can rush the passer)

10-08-2007, 12:34 PM	#9
Bigdawg26 Ring of Famer New to the Forum Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,475 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	O and rotate Simeon Rice with Tim Crowder

10-08-2007, 01:55 PM	#10
oubronco John Foneco !! Mile High Magic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sooner Country Posts: 20,569	do you think that they need to hire a new talent scout and who would be fired and who would be a good replacement ?

10-08-2007, 02:25 PM	#12
Maximus The Razor! Public Enemy #1 Join Date: May 2001 Location: Western, NY Posts: 5,207 Adopt-a-Bronco: Tim Tebow	Lombardi didn't do any scouting. Lombardi was responsible for the Salary Cap and getting players signed.

10-08-2007, 02:29 PM	#13
Popps TEAM FIRST. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 29,785	Did I tell you guys Engleberger sucked? Though, keep in mind... Ekuban would be the starer, if healthy. Ekuban wasn't dominating, but he was consistent and could play the run. Losing him did hurt this team. The line has been the bane of this team for years.

10-08-2007, 03:04 PM	#15
ro_50 Ring of Famer Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Somewhere in Jersey Posts: 3,782	They should just start the rookies (Crowder, Thomas and the youngster Elvis) and just live w/ their mistakes and good plays. And play Moss more, especially on running downs.

10-08-2007, 05:39 PM	#17
yavoon Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,260	the defensive line is trashed. the only good/promising players are relatively undersized ends. the linebacking core is similarly decimated, now is the time where 3-4 is an opportunity.