Anybody have any real suggestions on how to improve? - The Orange Mane

fontaine · 10-08-2007, 07:27 AM

Ok, we've just gone through two really ugly losses, but we have a bye week where the team can get back to basics.

So does anyone have any suggestion on how to improve the Run D, ST?

No, I'm talking about firing Shanahan or Bates because that would be akin to just giving up for the season.

A couple of weeks ago I created a thread on a suggestion on how to improve that run D and it was to run biltz on 1st and 2nd and long situations. I can now see that's going nowhere because we tried that against the Chargers and they gashed us for huge play action pass gains to LT, and Turner running out wide to avoid the bodies up the middle.

Here's my suggestion: Bench Gold and Webster. Replace them with DD Lewis and Winborn, and I don't know what to do with DJ.

Argueably the only guy that played with any fire was Martinez because he was playing for a job. Could the same be true with Lewis/Winborn? I do know that I can't stand the fact that Gold was too busy chumming it up with LT and Webster just took horribly wrong angles.

Here's another one: Keep Scheffler on the field. Jay and Scheff have a great chemistry on those passes up the seam.

As for ST? Who knows, apart from that stupid fumble our STs actually played ok. Maybe they're coming around?

Raiders Rock · 10-08-2007, 07:30 AM

Fire BeaverBoy

fontaine · 10-08-2007, 07:47 AM

Good one.

Maybe we could get the defensive players on the front 7 to wear helmets that really reflect the way they play ball!

Seriously though, we need to bench Webster and Gold.

BroncoBuff · 10-08-2007, 07:55 AM

Have Shanny mellow out and de-tense. Promote more of a "team together" mentality.

broncoblue · 10-08-2007, 08:03 AM

sit them down with vids of the old crush,the superbowl vids and show them what passion is all about..yesterday they gave the impression that dont give a fk and that easy st is good enough....take them round the working class people in denver and make them see the real world...

BRONCOS TIL I DIE!

fontaine · 10-08-2007, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

Have Shanny mellow out and de-tense. Promote more of a "team together" mentality.

Are suggesting Shanny hang out more with Henry and his stash?

BroncoBuff · 10-08-2007, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

Are suggesting Shanny hang out more with Henry and his stash?

Actually, yeah!

More friendship and coaching, less anger and yelling. I am 100% convinced this team's problems are more mental than physical ... Exhibit A: We were #5 and #6 out of 32 teams in offense and defensive yardage.

Maximus · 10-08-2007, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fontaine

So does anyone have any suggestion on how to improve the Run D, ST?

No, I'm talking about firing Shanahan or Bates because that would be akin to just giving up for the season.

Giving up for the season is the message shanahan sent when he pulled Plummer last season... He packed it in during a potential playoff run in favor of a Rookie QB. So, why not fire shanahan... He's the cause of the mess... He hired the coaching staff and is in charge of all the players and free agents that were brought in

elsid13 · 10-08-2007, 08:15 AM

Let put Mike Bell back as RB. At least the kid fought when he was in there and didn't miss his cut back lanes unlike Henry doing!

Raiders Rock · 10-08-2007, 08:17 AM

??

ksBRONCOfan · 10-08-2007, 08:21 AM

They need to send everyone to tackling school. It seems like everyone wants to make a big hit rather than actually tackle someone. Ian Gold seems like he's been on a downward spiral ever since he came back to Denver. His new name should be Ian Gotburned. Webster needs to cut his hair so his helmet will stay on. I like Cutler, but it doesn't seem like he is taking control of the game. He's just going through the motions.

From here on out I can only hope they finish better than the Chefs.

BroncoInferno · 10-08-2007, 08:53 AM

I actually feel pretty confident that the offense is going to come around pretty soon. Our problems have not been the other team stopping us; the problems have been mental errors that result from a lot of youngsters and new faces in the starting lineup. They've been getting yards, but so far that has not translated into point due to these untimely errors. I mean, even yesterday with that 3 point effort, it really didn't have anything to do with being overmatched by SD's defense. They weren't blowing into the backfield against the run, that didn't have much of a pass rush, they did'nt really cover particularly well. Drop passes and turnovers among other mental breakdowns are what did us in. The good news is those types of things can be corrected, especially with a young group like we have. I agree about Scheffler; his return will add another deminsion to the offense because he can stretch the middle of the field versus LBs and safetys. Martinez was also a pleasant surprise; you wonder why he never got a shot sooner. I guess maybe because he's not a very impressive physical speciment...kinda small, not a lot of straight line speed...but he looks like a gamer. His one punt return was promising. Granted, it was only a single attempt, it be he showed promise nimbly avoided tackles while still heading upfield. Hopefully, he can keep that up.

Defensively, I think we'll improve with more familarity with the scheme, but there are personnel problems at DT and LB that will prevent us from making any kind of drastic improvement. We'll just have to keep working to shore up scheme familarity and hope for the best. I'm think we get can get to around 20th in the league. We'll have to address LB/DT in the offseason. Fortunately, DT is pretty deep in the draft this season and LB is one of the easier position to identify talent, especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

ak1971 · 10-08-2007, 08:53 AM

Its all about the fans..if they would have stayed in thier seats we would have won 51-43!

BroncoBuff · 10-08-2007, 09:06 AM

That Clarett photo is so very very sad.

TRIVIA: Did you know that, in the very last football play Marcus Clarett was on a field for in his entire life, he ran for a TD to win the college National Championship?

There's gotta be a book/movie there. We'll wait for the 3rd Act though ...

Rulon Velvet Jones · 10-08-2007, 09:14 AM

It all starts with Shanahan admitting his decision-making was poor in a number of facets and for heads to roll. DJ is NOT a MLB. Bates and his "scheme" are not going to cut it. Heimerdinger is garbage. The playcalling is bland and atrocious.

If drastic measures aren't taken in these 2 weeks, all of the problems will fall squarely on Shanahan's shoulders and this season will continue to wind down the toilet. Make the damned moves that are needed for the Denver Broncos to succeed. Quit babying this team and keeping these hacks on as coaches simply because they're your friends.

bloodsunday · 10-08-2007, 09:14 AM

I'd say do some serious scouting on the waiver wire or potential trades. One good pick-up at LB or DT could make a HUGE difference.

An example is Kris Jenkins if he's still available.

Another thing is that they have to let Cutler throw more. They also have to let him throw more in pressure situations. He's gonna make mistakes, that's a given. But right now the offense looks like the Jake Plummer led offense. Convservative and void of big-game changing plays. They can't just do two runs and a pass in the flat every time they get into the redzone. With Scheffler and Graham they should own the middle of a defense and put huge pressure because of our match-ups outside with Marshall and Walker (hopefully soon).

One last thing... I think they have to find a way to get young. Start playing some young guys (where it makes sense -- don't quit). Guys like Meyers, Kuper, Scheffler, Martinez, Crowder, Moss etc should see playing time. With the veterans we know what we have and the ceiling is some-what limited. With kids, they can mature and come-of-age during the season to improve this team and its prospects.

This team also needs some leaders to step up. We can't panic given that we are tied for the division lead. There are ways to right the ship if we can bring the level of intensity, concentration, and confidence back up to par. There is something troubling this team that must be worked out through the emergence of team leaders.

Maximus · 10-08-2007, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rulon Velvet Jones

It all starts with Shanahan admitting his decision-making was poor in a number of facets and for heads to roll. DJ is NOT a MLB. Bates and his "scheme" are not going to cut it. Heimerdinger is garbage. The playcalling is bland and atrocious.

If drastic measures aren't taken in these 2 weeks, all of the problems will fall squarely on Shanahan's shoulders and this season will continue to wind down the toilet. Make the damned moves that are needed for the Denver Broncos to succeed. Quit babying this team and keeping these hacks on as coaches simply because they're your friends.

Maybe the play calling is bland and atrocious because the uninterested surfer boy can't grasp the playbook. He doesn't seem interested in looking at photos after making mistakes... The play calling was much more intimidating when Plummer was on your squad... but your head coach laid the blame on him and ran him out of town.

Beantown Bronco · 10-08-2007, 09:21 AM

Why the continued bagging on Gold? He (relatively) looked good yesterday, didn't miss any tackles as far as I could tell, and generally was in good position. Don't even bring up the one play against V. Jackson....there's not a single LB in the league who can cover a team's #1 WR 30 yards downfield without any help.

broncoblue · 10-08-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

Maybe the play calling is bland and atrocious because the uninterested surfer boy can't grasp the playbook. He doesn't seem interested in looking at photos after making mistakes... The play calling was much more intimidating when Plummer was on your squad... but your head coach laid the blame on him and ran him out of town.

makes me laugh how the fade trolls have reappeared again

BroncoBuff · 10-08-2007, 09:24 AM

I think Jenkins is off the market now bloodsunday. The Panthers won a huge victory yesterday, and it came after Jenkins held a closed-door players only meeting.

... too bad. I was cheering for the Saints for just that reason.

Rulon Velvet Jones · 10-08-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

Maybe the play calling is bland and atrocious because the uninterested surfer boy can't grasp the playbook. He doesn't seem interested in looking at photos after making mistakes... The play calling was much more intimidating when Plummer was on your squad... but your head coach laid the blame on him and ran him out of town.

Back to the "looking at pictures" thing again? Where do you get that Cutler doesn't study the game or receive coaching during play? The playcalling is what's bad. You don't need to study pictures of a D after trying a bootleg up the middle on 3rd and 4. Cutler can make all the plays when put in the right position to do so.

bloodsunday · 10-08-2007, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BroncoBuff

I think Jenkins is off the market now bloodsunday. The Panthers won a huge victory yesterday, and it came after Jenkins held a closed-door players only meeting.

... too bad. I was cheering for the Saints for just that reason.

Yeah a move like that is rarely made in-season. But its an example. Last year Indy got McFarland from Tampa and it really paid dividends for them. There are teams out there that are either ready to get young and move veterans or have disgruntled veterans (our specialty). It's the job of the scouting department to find them and the FO to get them here.

Maximus · 10-08-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broncoblue

makes me laugh how the fade trolls have reappeared again

When did Raider fans leave...? I've been here since 2001 consistently... you just don't want me here right now because you can't handle the truth.

Now Rulon said that the play calling was pathetic... and that the Coordinator should be responsible. I'm saying that the coordinator is limited by the QB... His play calling wasn't uninspired when Plummer was around... Was it! Who ever made the decision to get rid of plummer made Heimerdingers job just that much tougher. The same person who brought in all the FA's on defense... Including Sam Adams ( A fat lazy bum who doesn't fit bates system ) is the one who shoulders all the blame.

Rulon Velvet Jones · 10-08-2007, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

Now Rulon said that the play calling was pathetic... and that the Coordinator should be responsible. I'm saying that the coordinator is limited by the QB... His play calling wasn't uninspired when Plummer was around... Was it! Who ever made the decision to get rid of plummer made Heimerdingers job just that much tougher. The same person who brought in all the FA's on defense... Including Sam Adams ( A fat lazy bum who doesn't fit bates system ) is the one who shoulders all the blame.

I'm lost in that we were all told that Shanahan could open up the playbook and do things with Cutler that he couldn't do with Plummer. That promise gave us all hope. And it still may come - but they're moving it along slowly.

But that's obviously not the focus of the troubles. The offense and their **** playcalling are actually in a better position than the atrocious defense, as sad as that may be.

tsiguy96 · 10-08-2007, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximus

When did Raider fans leave...? I've been here since 2001 consistently... you just don't want me here right now because you can't handle the truth.

Now Rulon said that the play calling was pathetic... and that the Coordinator should be responsible. I'm saying that the coordinator is limited by the QB... His play calling wasn't uninspired when Plummer was around... Was it! Who ever made the decision to get rid of plummer made Heimerdingers job just that much tougher. The same person who brought in all the FA's on defense... Including Sam Adams ( A fat lazy bum who doesn't fit bates system ) is the one who shoulders all the blame.

why have you been here? does a game that has absolutely no effect on your life mean so much that you have to go to a FAN FORUM of another team just to talk trash? i dont understand it?

10-08-2007, 07:47 AM	#3
fontaine Ring of Famer Go John Manning! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,435	Good one. Maybe we could get the defensive players on the front 7 to wear helmets that really reflect the way they play ball! Seriously though, we need to bench Webster and Gold. Attached Images

10-08-2007, 09:14 AM	#16
bloodsunday Ring of Famer Nothing lasts forever. Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Dove Valley Posts: 5,839 Adopt-a-Bronco: Spencer Larsen	I'd say do some serious scouting on the waiver wire or potential trades. One good pick-up at LB or DT could make a HUGE difference. An example is Kris Jenkins if he's still available. Another thing is that they have to let Cutler throw more. They also have to let him throw more in pressure situations. He's gonna make mistakes, that's a given. But right now the offense looks like the Jake Plummer led offense. Convservative and void of big-game changing plays. They can't just do two runs and a pass in the flat every time they get into the redzone. With Scheffler and Graham they should own the middle of a defense and put huge pressure because of our match-ups outside with Marshall and Walker (hopefully soon). One last thing... I think they have to find a way to get young. Start playing some young guys (where it makes sense -- don't quit). Guys like Meyers, Kuper, Scheffler, Martinez, Crowder, Moss etc should see playing time. With the veterans we know what we have and the ceiling is some-what limited. With kids, they can mature and come-of-age during the season to improve this team and its prospects. This team also needs some leaders to step up. We can't panic given that we are tied for the division lead. There are ways to right the ship if we can bring the level of intensity, concentration, and confidence back up to par. There is something troubling this team that must be worked out through the emergence of team leaders. Last edited by bloodsunday; 10-08-2007 at 09:25 AM..

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10-08-2007, 07:27 AM	#1
fontaine Ring of Famer Go John Manning! Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 12,435	Anybody have any real suggestions on how to improve? Ok, we've just gone through two really ugly losses, but we have a bye week where the team can get back to basics. So does anyone have any suggestion on how to improve the Run D, ST? No, I'm talking about firing Shanahan or Bates because that would be akin to just giving up for the season. A couple of weeks ago I created a thread on a suggestion on how to improve that run D and it was to run biltz on 1st and 2nd and long situations. I can now see that's going nowhere because we tried that against the Chargers and they gashed us for huge play action pass gains to LT, and Turner running out wide to avoid the bodies up the middle. Here's my suggestion: Bench Gold and Webster. Replace them with DD Lewis and Winborn, and I don't know what to do with DJ. Argueably the only guy that played with any fire was Martinez because he was playing for a job. Could the same be true with Lewis/Winborn? I do know that I can't stand the fact that Gold was too busy chumming it up with LT and Webster just took horribly wrong angles. Here's another one: Keep Scheffler on the field. Jay and Scheff have a great chemistry on those passes up the seam. As for ST? Who knows, apart from that stupid fumble our STs actually played ok. Maybe they're coming around?

10-08-2007, 07:30 AM	#2
Raiders Rock The Darkside RaidersKickAss.com Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 4,571	Fire BeaverBoy

10-08-2007, 07:55 AM	#4
BroncoBuff *************** Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 25,470 Adopt-a-Bronco: QUANTERUS SMITH	Have Shanny mellow out and de-tense. Promote more of a "team together" mentality.

10-08-2007, 08:03 AM	#5
broncoblue english not british!! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: nr blackburn ,england Posts: 3,752	sit them down with vids of the old crush,the superbowl vids and show them what passion is all about..yesterday they gave the impression that dont give a fk and that easy st is good enough....take them round the working class people in denver and make them see the real world... BRONCOS TIL I DIE!

10-08-2007, 08:15 AM	#9
elsid13 Lost In Space Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: DC Posts: 19,139	Let put Mike Bell back as RB. At least the kid fought when he was in there and didn't miss his cut back lanes unlike Henry doing!

10-08-2007, 08:17 AM	#10
Raiders Rock The Darkside RaidersKickAss.com Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 4,571	??

10-08-2007, 08:21 AM	#11
ksBRONCOfan I love beer and Broncos! YUM-O! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: McPherson, KS Posts: 1,024 Adopt-a-Bronco: Pat Bowlen	They need to send everyone to tackling school. It seems like everyone wants to make a big hit rather than actually tackle someone. Ian Gold seems like he's been on a downward spiral ever since he came back to Denver. His new name should be Ian Gotburned. Webster needs to cut his hair so his helmet will stay on. I like Cutler, but it doesn't seem like he is taking control of the game. He's just going through the motions. From here on out I can only hope they finish better than the Chefs.

10-08-2007, 08:53 AM	#12
BroncoInferno Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: South Carolina Posts: 13,031	I actually feel pretty confident that the offense is going to come around pretty soon. Our problems have not been the other team stopping us; the problems have been mental errors that result from a lot of youngsters and new faces in the starting lineup. They've been getting yards, but so far that has not translated into point due to these untimely errors. I mean, even yesterday with that 3 point effort, it really didn't have anything to do with being overmatched by SD's defense. They weren't blowing into the backfield against the run, that didn't have much of a pass rush, they did'nt really cover particularly well. Drop passes and turnovers among other mental breakdowns are what did us in. The good news is those types of things can be corrected, especially with a young group like we have. I agree about Scheffler; his return will add another deminsion to the offense because he can stretch the middle of the field versus LBs and safetys. Martinez was also a pleasant surprise; you wonder why he never got a shot sooner. I guess maybe because he's not a very impressive physical speciment...kinda small, not a lot of straight line speed...but he looks like a gamer. His one punt return was promising. Granted, it was only a single attempt, it be he showed promise nimbly avoided tackles while still heading upfield. Hopefully, he can keep that up. Defensively, I think we'll improve with more familarity with the scheme, but there are personnel problems at DT and LB that will prevent us from making any kind of drastic improvement. We'll just have to keep working to shore up scheme familarity and hope for the best. I'm think we get can get to around 20th in the league. We'll have to address LB/DT in the offseason. Fortunately, DT is pretty deep in the draft this season and LB is one of the easier position to identify talent, especially in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

10-08-2007, 08:53 AM	#13
ak1971 uhhhh Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 5,550	Its all about the fans..if they would have stayed in thier seats we would have won 51-43!

10-08-2007, 09:06 AM	#14
BroncoBuff *************** Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 25,470 Adopt-a-Bronco: QUANTERUS SMITH	That Clarett photo is so very very sad. TRIVIA: Did you know that, in the very last football play Marcus Clarett was on a field for in his entire life, he ran for a TD to win the college National Championship? There's gotta be a book/movie there. We'll wait for the 3rd Act though ...

10-08-2007, 09:14 AM	#15
Rulon Velvet Jones You're not really here. Tight Butthole Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 6,599 Adopt-a-Bronco: Rent-A-DC	It all starts with Shanahan admitting his decision-making was poor in a number of facets and for heads to roll. DJ is NOT a MLB. Bates and his "scheme" are not going to cut it. Heimerdinger is garbage. The playcalling is bland and atrocious. If drastic measures aren't taken in these 2 weeks, all of the problems will fall squarely on Shanahan's shoulders and this season will continue to wind down the toilet. Make the damned moves that are needed for the Denver Broncos to succeed. Quit babying this team and keeping these hacks on as coaches simply because they're your friends.

10-08-2007, 09:21 AM	#18
Beantown Bronco Athletic Supporter Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mass Posts: 19,111 Adopt-a-Bronco: Matt Prater	Why the continued bagging on Gold? He (relatively) looked good yesterday, didn't miss any tackles as far as I could tell, and generally was in good position. Don't even bring up the one play against V. Jackson....there's not a single LB in the league who can cover a team's #1 WR 30 yards downfield without any help.

10-08-2007, 09:24 AM	#20
BroncoBuff *************** Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 25,470 Adopt-a-Bronco: QUANTERUS SMITH	I think Jenkins is off the market now bloodsunday. The Panthers won a huge victory yesterday, and it came after Jenkins held a closed-door players only meeting. ... too bad. I was cheering for the Saints for just that reason.