After Review--Sam Adams causing problems - The Orange Mane

Stormontheplains · 09-19-2007, 10:45 AM

I don't know how many of you record the games or replay, but as I watched the defense I found some interesting issues. Oakland ran a zone blocking scheme of course, and as a dlinemen you must move your gap down the line of scrimmage. What I saw from Adams was zero side to side movement. On the big runs that Jordan had Adams would stand his lineman up and not be able to get down the line. At the beginning of the game Oakland used a scrape block, and as the game went on they went one on one and used the scraper on a linebacker who was Ian gold for the most part. With those two factors there were big holes. I noticed when Burton went in he had zero penetration but great movement on C gap runs, much better than Adams. In the 4th quarter and overtime when Burton was in they started to cut block him with isolation on gold so they were still successfull. Bottom line is if Adams and gold are on the same side we are in deep ****, due to the fact that two gaps are uncovered. Side note to Ian Gold----You do NOT fill a hole 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage, even if you are weak, attempt to fill across the LOS

OrangeShadow · 09-19-2007, 10:50 AM

you dont see his name in the stat sheet much, i think its like 3 or 4 tackles this season but hes making a noticeable difference in the game.

Eldorado · 09-19-2007, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormontheplains

I don't know how many of you record the games or replay, but as I watched the defense I found some interesting issues. Oakland ran a zone blocking scheme of course, and as a dlinemen you must move your gap down the line of scrimmage. What I saw from Adams was zero side to side movement. On the big runs that Jordan had Adams would stand his lineman up and not be able to get down the line. At the beginning of the game Oakland used a scrape block, and as the game went on they went one on one and used the scraper on a linebacker who was Ian gold for the most part. With those two factors there were big holes. I noticed when aman Burton went in he had zero penetration but great movement on C gap runs, much better than Adams. In the 4th quarter and overtime when Burton was in they started to cut block him with isolation on gold so they were still successfully. Bottom line is if Adams and gold are on the same side we are in deep ****, due to the fact that two gaps are uncovered. Side note to Ian Gold----You do NOT fill a hole 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage, even if you are weak, attempt to fill across the LOS

I don't know man. I thought adams did well on obvious running downs, particularly the goal line near-saftey early in the game. I saw burton get blown off the los bad. I agree w/ you on gold. I think the weakest formation we have against the run is when burton and gold are on the same side. On the bright side, I though Webster had a monster game. Filling holes, staying in position, making tackles. I am much more impressed with him than I thought I would be. I will have to review again and watch Gordon.

broncsyanks · 09-19-2007, 11:06 AM

he takes up 2 blockers on the line and doesnt get a tackle. i disagree. all i know is that the lbs are did not step up or was burnt when those plays you are referring to was pulled off

Stormontheplains · 09-19-2007, 11:08 AM

We are talking C gap or off tackle runs, not goal line or short yardage. The damage is done in the middle of the field. By the way, if you see two olineman engaged with one of ours they are doing there job reguardless of making tackles.

Vegas_Bronco · 09-19-2007, 11:10 AM

I think you are referring to the 4th down play in particular. Adams was not too impressive getting down the line but you can't be perfect on every play defensively. Adams brings size to the front and he is a demon to deal with. True, our front 7 must do better agains the run - It starts at the DE position with Engelberger who has to do better sheddnig the block, also the linebackers have to fill the gaps - Gold has to do better. I thought DJ and NAte both had great games. One thing I miss are those snot knocker hits that old Rhino brought to the game. Nothing will kill a RB confidence more than a solid shot to the chops - kills his confidence in his line and 2-3 shots a game and the guy will run soft. Hard to do in the NFL but Al was excellent at the skill.

Overall the Run Defense needs more work but I'm confident we'll get it there. Jordan is a tough back, huge in fact, and I can't even imagine trying to tackle that after he gets going. I noticed on a few occasions that Bly diliberately moved to the side when he came his way. But on the other side of the ball, the Raiders Defense was even softer. Nobody wants to tackle the bowling ball once it gets going - Travis was a beast!

HEAV · 09-19-2007, 11:10 AM

Gold can't tackle.

DT's in Bates system are supposed to take up space and leave the LBs the fame of making tackles.

Gold can't tackle.

Stormontheplains · 09-19-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas_Bronco

I think you are referring to the 4th down play in particular. Adams was not too impressive getting down the line but you can't be perfect on every play defensively. Adams brings size to the front and he is a demon to deal with. True, our front 7 must do better agains the run - It starts at the DE position with Engelberger who has to do better sheddnig the block, also the linebackers have to fill the gaps - Gold has to do better. I thought DJ and NAte both had great games. One thing I miss are those snot knocker hits that old Rhino brought to the game. Nothing will kill a RB confidence more than a solid shot to the chops - kills his confidence in his line and 2-3 shots a game and the guy will run soft. Hard to do in the NFL but Al was excellent at the skill.

Overall the Run Defense needs more work but I'm confident we'll get it there. Jordan is a tough back, huge in fact, and I can't even imagine trying to tackle that after he gets going. I noticed on a few occasions that Bly diliberately moved to the side when he came his way. But on the other side of the ball, the Raiders Defense was even softer. Nobody wants to tackle the bowling ball once it gets going - Travis was a beast!

I am referring to 9 plays to be specific. All C gap runs.

epicSocialism4tw · 09-19-2007, 11:19 AM

Good post.

Eldorado · 09-19-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormontheplains

I am referring to 9 plays to be specific. All C gap runs.

Storm, can tell me which nine plays? I'd like to check 'em out and see what your talking about. Good thread, btw.

Jason in LA · 09-19-2007, 11:23 AM

I really wasn't paying attention to Adams during the game, but a few times I did notice the center release clean and block DJ Williams. That's not supposed to happen when you have huge DTs who are supposed to take up blockers. DJ should be able to roam around unblocked for the most part and make tackles.

I'm not saying that it happened all the time. I don't have the game on tape. Maybe one of you guys who do can take a look back and see how often the center was able to get to DJ. But if that is happening often, the DTs, namely Adams, aren't doing their job.

Stormontheplains · 09-19-2007, 11:25 AM

I will watch it again tonight, then post the quarter and time so you can see what I am talking about.

Eldorado · 09-19-2007, 11:25 AM

Cool. Thanks.

theAPAOps5 · 09-19-2007, 11:29 AM

Its not just Sam Adams but its also Burton. He seems to be blown up a lot from what I have seen. Makes me wonder why he is starting sometimes.

Beantown Bronco · 09-19-2007, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEAV

Gold can't tackle.

DT's in Bates system are supposed to take up space and leave the LBs the fame of making tackles.

Gold can't tackle.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you missed the Oakland game.

I can understand people bagging on Gold for his week one performance. It was not good. But even the haters have to admit his tackling and ability to shed blockers against Oakland was as solid as anyone could hope for out of any LB.

Eldorado · 09-19-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApaOps5

Its not just Sam Adams but its also Burton. He seems to be blown up a lot from what I have seen. Makes me wonder why he is starting sometimes.

I thought gorden was starting.

HEAV · 09-19-2007, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you missed the Oakland game.

I can understand people bagging on Gold for his week one performance. It was not good. But even the haters have to admit his tackling and ability to shed blockers against Oakland was as solid as anyone could hope for out of any LB.

One good game doesn't make up for years of crappy tackles...

I got to see the last 5 minutes of the game. Listened to the game on Sirius.

I may be wrong (like always) but I thought the Raiders ran and got most of their yards on long distance downs. Seems they where spreading the defense out. Meaning more coverage for the LB's and DB's.

In OT the fat guys may have been tired also.

But then if you look at the goal line plays you can see the defense working at it's best.

Myself I don't like Gold, so I could be bias... But I felt Webster had a better game than Gold from what I heard and saw later.

ND Bronco Fan · 09-19-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HEAV

Gold can't tackle.

DT's in Bates system are supposed to take up space and leave the LBs the fame of making tackles.

Gold can't tackle.

You're right he can't tackle, he sure can run into and bounce off them with the best of them though, I just don't understand how he does not get his ass ripped for not wrapping up.

Eldorado · 09-20-2007, 12:19 AM

gorden started. Gold had a nice tackle at about the 5:17 in the third. 'bout all I got for him, though.

The bly td was a blown assignment by lynch. I think it was cover 2 and he had the top but was late.

All I watched tonight was the 3rd and the start of the 4th, so now I am depressed.

I should crack one and push through OT just for the tinglies.

go j, go.

Los Broncos · 09-20-2007, 12:23 AM

Man, we went into the stadium early to go down low to see the field and players, i never realized how big he really is.

My gf said "how sad", he can barely move or run.

Willynowei · 09-20-2007, 12:32 AM

Alot of blame on Gold in this thread. Gold played very well last week from what i could see. Took on the block hard in eight man fronts, lead the team in tackles and ran hard to the ball. He is actually less capable when lined up far from the ball b/c hes getting locked up off the LOS and is too small to stand up the gap.

I thought DJ had a terrible game, and I know two big plays that were entirely his fault. Webster had a very good game. I also thought Adams has done well for us, though in Oakland I didn't notice him much outside of a few nice plays in the first half.

Willynowei · 09-20-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange&blue

gorden started. Gold had a nice tackle at about the 5:17 in the third. 'bout all I got for him, though.

The bly td was a blown assignment by lynch. I think it was cover 2 and he had the top but was late.

All I watched tonight was the 3rd and the start of the 4th, so now I am depressed.

I should crack one and push through OT just for the tinglies.

go j, go.

You are right it was a cover 2, but the wrong kind - as in shell 2 man, in otherwords, that was completely Bly's fault.

Porter ran the route, McCown sold the pump fake, and Bly bit. It was an example of how to burn a corner 101. Happens.

Willynowei · 09-20-2007, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that you missed the Oakland game.

I can understand people bagging on Gold for his week one performance. It was not good. But even the haters have to admit his tackling and ability to shed blockers against Oakland was as solid as anyone could hope for out of any LB.

Dead on Beantown.

Garcia Bronco · 09-20-2007, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynchmob72

Man, we went into the stadium early to go down low to see the field and players, i never realized how big he really is.

My gf said "how sad", he can barely move or run.

one of his legs is shorter than the other

Los Broncos · 09-20-2007, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

one of his legs is shorter than the other

Wow, hes huge none the less.

He waddles

09-19-2007, 10:45 AM	#1
Stormontheplains Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bronco Nation Posts: 1,001 Adopt-a-Bronco: Andre Hall	After Review--Sam Adams causing problems I don't know how many of you record the games or replay, but as I watched the defense I found some interesting issues. Oakland ran a zone blocking scheme of course, and as a dlinemen you must move your gap down the line of scrimmage. What I saw from Adams was zero side to side movement. On the big runs that Jordan had Adams would stand his lineman up and not be able to get down the line. At the beginning of the game Oakland used a scrape block, and as the game went on they went one on one and used the scraper on a linebacker who was Ian gold for the most part. With those two factors there were big holes. I noticed when Burton went in he had zero penetration but great movement on C gap runs, much better than Adams. In the 4th quarter and overtime when Burton was in they started to cut block him with isolation on gold so they were still successfull. Bottom line is if Adams and gold are on the same side we are in deep ***, due to the fact that two gaps are uncovered. Side note to Ian Gold----You do NOT fill a hole 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage, even if you are weak, attempt to fill across the LOS Last edited by Stormontheplains; 09-19-2007 at 10:54 AM..*

09-19-2007, 11:10 AM	#6
Vegas_Bronco Ring of Famer Fear is a lack of preparation. Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 63 Yards Out Posts: 4,024 Adopt-a-Bronco: 1 Elam 1	I think you are referring to the 4th down play in particular. Adams was not too impressive getting down the line but you can't be perfect on every play defensively. Adams brings size to the front and he is a demon to deal with. True, our front 7 must do better agains the run - It starts at the DE position with Engelberger who has to do better sheddnig the block, also the linebackers have to fill the gaps - Gold has to do better. I thought DJ and NAte both had great games. One thing I miss are those snot knocker hits that old Rhino brought to the game. Nothing will kill a RB confidence more than a solid shot to the chops - kills his confidence in his line and 2-3 shots a game and the guy will run soft. Hard to do in the NFL but Al was excellent at the skill. Overall the Run Defense needs more work but I'm confident we'll get it there. Jordan is a tough back, huge in fact, and I can't even imagine trying to tackle that after he gets going. I noticed on a few occasions that Bly diliberately moved to the side when he came his way. But on the other side of the ball, the Raiders Defense was even softer. Nobody wants to tackle the bowling ball once it gets going - Travis was a beast! Last edited by Vegas_Bronco; 09-19-2007 at 11:12 AM..

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09-19-2007, 10:50 AM	#2
OrangeShadow armed and dangerous Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,771	you dont see his name in the stat sheet much, i think its like 3 or 4 tackles this season but hes making a noticeable difference in the game.

09-19-2007, 11:06 AM	#4
broncsyanks Broncos kick a$$!!! Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nyc, NY Posts: 917	he takes up 2 blockers on the line and doesnt get a tackle. i disagree. all i know is that the lbs are did not step up or was burnt when those plays you are referring to was pulled off

09-19-2007, 11:08 AM	#5
Stormontheplains Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bronco Nation Posts: 1,001 Adopt-a-Bronco: Andre Hall	We are talking C gap or off tackle runs, not goal line or short yardage. The damage is done in the middle of the field. By the way, if you see two olineman engaged with one of ours they are doing there job reguardless of making tackles.

09-19-2007, 11:10 AM	#7
HEAV Ring of Famer It's about the Team Join Date: May 2003 Location: The Ville Posts: 12,077 Adopt-a-Bronco: Brian Dawkins	Gold can't tackle. DT's in Bates system are supposed to take up space and leave the LBs the fame of making tackles. Gold can't tackle.

09-19-2007, 11:19 AM	#9
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	Good post.

09-19-2007, 11:23 AM	#11
Jason in LA Gimmie that rep fool! Speaking of Butts & Boob Mojo Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: LA Posts: 12,252	I really wasn't paying attention to Adams during the game, but a few times I did notice the center release clean and block DJ Williams. That's not supposed to happen when you have huge DTs who are supposed to take up blockers. DJ should be able to roam around unblocked for the most part and make tackles. I'm not saying that it happened all the time. I don't have the game on tape. Maybe one of you guys who do can take a look back and see how often the center was able to get to DJ. But if that is happening often, the DTs, namely Adams, aren't doing their job.

09-19-2007, 11:25 AM	#12
Stormontheplains Ring of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bronco Nation Posts: 1,001 Adopt-a-Bronco: Andre Hall	I will watch it again tonight, then post the quarter and time so you can see what I am talking about.

09-19-2007, 11:25 AM	#13
Eldorado Formerly orange&blue Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,779 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ayers	Cool. Thanks.

09-19-2007, 11:29 AM	#14
theAPAOps5 A new beginning! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Posts: 26,057 Adopt-a-Bronco: Watermock - RIP	Its not just Sam Adams but its also Burton. He seems to be blown up a lot from what I have seen. Makes me wonder why he is starting sometimes.

09-20-2007, 12:19 AM	#19
Eldorado Formerly orange&blue Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,779 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ayers	gorden started. Gold had a nice tackle at about the 5:17 in the third. 'bout all I got for him, though. The bly td was a blown assignment by lynch. I think it was cover 2 and he had the top but was late. All I watched tonight was the 3rd and the start of the 4th, so now I am depressed. I should crack one and push through OT just for the tinglies. go j, go.

09-20-2007, 12:23 AM	#20
Los Broncos Ring of farmers Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Anaheim Hills, Santa Ana Mountains CA Posts: 18,766 Adopt-a-Bronco: Ryan Clady	Man, we went into the stadium early to go down low to see the field and players, i never realized how big he really is. My gf said "how sad", he can barely move or run.

09-20-2007, 12:32 AM	#21
Willynowei Some dude Football is a wonderful thing. Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 2,798 Adopt-a-Bronco: Eddie Royal	Alot of blame on Gold in this thread. Gold played very well last week from what i could see. Took on the block hard in eight man fronts, lead the team in tackles and ran hard to the ball. He is actually less capable when lined up far from the ball b/c hes getting locked up off the LOS and is too small to stand up the gap. I thought DJ had a terrible game, and I know two big plays that were entirely his fault. Webster had a very good game. I also thought Adams has done well for us, though in Oakland I didn't notice him much outside of a few nice plays in the first half.