If pornography were really a sin... - The Orange Mane

bdv · 08-19-2007, 04:14 PM

...how could the perfectly good Christian god force pornographic acts to be viewed "before all Israel" (2 Sam. 12:11-12)?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...-12&version=31

2 Samuel 12:11-12 (New International Version)

11 "This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "

alkemical · 08-20-2007, 11:01 AM

Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'

alkemical · 08-20-2007, 11:05 AM

What you should ask is why god puts way more sexual 'rules' for heterosexuals than homosexuals.

Hogan11 · 08-20-2007, 01:41 PM

Porn is good, the end.

Bronco Bob · 08-20-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogan11

Porn is good, the end.

But doesn't it make you go blind and give you hairy palms?

epicSocialism4tw · 08-20-2007, 04:02 PM

bdv, you might want to read that passage a few more times. I think that you misunderstood.

Bronco_Beerslug · 08-20-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

bdv, you might want to read that passage a few more times. I think that you misunderstood.

Probably because he didn't read it using his "Ovaltine Secret Decoder Ring".

alkemical · 08-20-2007, 04:37 PM

No, i had to include the passages before it, so it wasn't taken out of context, i didn't post what follows but you can use the link that was the origin to find it if ye wish.

I don't agree with the passage fo the bible, but IMO it doesn't really "note" pornography - from what i can gather the "broad daylight" means - In the open, not in secret - like the "crime" the LORD outlines was done to begin with.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN · 08-20-2007, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

Probably because he didn't read it using his "Ovaltine Secret Decoder Ring".

bdv · 08-20-2007, 10:18 PM

Okay, here it is in all it's glorious context:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2;&version=31;

Quote:

7 Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'

11 "This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "

Not only was it pornography, but such pornography would be illegal in this country today under our obscenity laws, as it involved actual rape. The rape, incidentally, was to be carried out by David's son "in the sight of all Israel."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2;&version=31;

2 Samuel 16:21-22 (New International Version)

Quote:

21 Ahithophel answered, "Lie with your father's concubines whom he left to take care of the palace. Then all Israel will hear that you have made yourself a stench in your father's nostrils, and the hands of everyone with you will be strengthened." 22 So they pitched a tent for Absalom on the roof, and he lay with his father's concubines in the sight of all Israel.

As for the context: God was really mad a David because David did something very bad (he had Uriah killed and took his wife). So, God used what God defines as sin (infidelity, rape and having sex with your father's wives) to punish David.

claviculasolomonis, what does "in the sight of all Israel" mean to you?

angryllama, thank you for your advice. I do believe I have a better understanding of this bible passage now. If not, please let me know specifically where I've strayed.

If nothing else, doesn't the forced infidelity bother Christians!? My God! Does God commit Sin as a form of punishment?

Spider · 08-20-2007, 10:47 PM

this is a relief .. you know how bad I felt watching porn on the same computer my kids use for homework ?
But now it is ok

alkemical · 08-20-2007, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdv

Okay, here it is in all it's glorious context:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2;&version=31;

Not only was it pornography, but such pornography would be illegal in this country today under our obscenity laws, as it involved actual rape. The rape, incidentally, was to be carried out by David's son "in the sight of all Israel."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...2;&version=31;

2 Samuel 16:21-22 (New International Version)

As for the context: God was really mad a David because David did something very bad (he had Uriah killed and took his wife). So, God used what God defines as sin (infidelity, rape and having sex with your father's wives) to punish David.

claviculasolomonis, what does "in the sight of all Israel" mean to you?

angryllama, thank you for your advice. I do believe I have a better understanding of this bible passage now. If not, please let me know specifically where I've strayed.

If nothing else, doesn't the forced infidelity bother Christians!? My God! Does God commit Sin as a form of punishment?

IMO it would be that one party would take the other's wife (do unto others....). Considering jewish tradition, i'm not reading "to lie with" as you appear to be doing. but it won't stop ya from just goading people. Have fun with your hate!

epicSocialism4tw · 08-20-2007, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdv

If nothing else, doesn't the forced infidelity bother Christians!? My God! Does God commit Sin as a form of punishment?

Um...I hate to be the one to break it to you again, but you are still missing the meaning of the passage.

That's one of the problems you encounter when you dont understand the context, or even the scripture itself for that matter.

You are not looking at the passage for what it is.

Spider · 08-21-2007, 12:00 AM

big ole **** fest ........ sign me up

bdv · 08-21-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Um...I hate to be the one to break it to you again, but you are still missing the meaning of the passage.

That's one of the problems you encounter when you dont understand the context, or even the scripture itself for that matter.

You are not looking at the passage for what it is.

Why did you quote my question without answering it? Very conspicuous...

To respond to you, however: I'm not into finding deep mystical doctrinal meaning in the bible. My hobby is helping people see that their is none. If, on the other hand, I'm missing something that a secular scholar would think important, "please let me know specifically where I've strayed."

Provocative, irreverent, educational, immature perhaps, but seriously, no "hate" intended

I give Christianity the same respect I give astrology, palm reading, ESP, remote viewing etc. The difference is that I don't converse with them about their beliefs. They're largely inconsequential. People already know their beliefs are silly...
-Tim

Bronco Bob · 08-21-2007, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdv

Why did you quote my question without answering it?

Don't hold your breath waiting for Llama to answer a question.

alkemical · 08-21-2007, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdv

Why did you quote my question without answering it? Very conspicuous...

To respond to you, however: I'm not into finding deep mystical doctrinal meaning in the bible. My hobby is helping people see that their is none. If, on the other hand, I'm missing something that a secular scholar would think important, "please let me know specifically where I've strayed."

Provocative, irreverent, educational, immature perhaps, but seriously, no "hate" intended

I give Christianity the same respect I give astrology, palm reading, ESP, remote viewing etc. The difference is that I don't converse with them about their beliefs. They're largely inconsequential. People already know their beliefs are silly...-Tim

No, no - not all of them.

08-19-2007, 04:14 PM	#1
bdv Solid Starter Atheist Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 215 Adopt-a-Bronco: None	If pornography were really a sin... ...how could the perfectly good Christian god force pornographic acts to be viewed "before all Israel" (2 Sam. 12:11-12)? http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...-12&version=31 2 Samuel 12:11-12 (New International Version) 11 "This is what the LORD says: 'Out of your own household I am going to bring calamity upon you. Before your very eyes I will take your wives and give them to one who is close to you, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. 12 You did it in secret, but I will do this thing in broad daylight before all Israel.' "

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08-20-2007, 11:01 AM	#2
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	Then Nathan said to David, "You are the man! This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave your master's house to you, and your master's wives into your arms. I gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if all this had been too little, I would have given you even more. 9 Why did you despise the word of the LORD by doing what is evil in his eyes? You struck down Uriah the Hittite with the sword and took his wife to be your own. You killed him with the sword of the Ammonites. 10 Now, therefore, the sword will never depart from your house, because you despised me and took the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your own.'

08-20-2007, 11:05 AM	#3
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	What you should ask is why god puts way more sexual 'rules' for heterosexuals than homosexuals.

08-20-2007, 01:41 PM	#4
Hogan11 Rock-N-Roll Historian Let's take these SOB's out!!!!!! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: W.NY.B.C. Posts: 21,300 Adopt-a-Bronco: Floyd Little	Porn is good, the end.

08-20-2007, 04:02 PM	#6
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	bdv, you might want to read that passage a few more times. I think that you misunderstood.

08-20-2007, 04:37 PM	#8
alkemical Guerrilla Ontologist rorrim\|mirror Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Future Posts: 42,723 Adopt-a-Bronco: Prima Materia	No, i had to include the passages before it, so it wasn't taken out of context, i didn't post what follows but you can use the link that was the origin to find it if ye wish. I don't agree with the passage fo the bible, but IMO it doesn't really "note" pornography - from what i can gather the "broad daylight" means - In the open, not in secret - like the "crime" the LORD outlines was done to begin with.

08-20-2007, 10:47 PM	#11
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	this is a relief .. you know how bad I felt watching porn on the same computer my kids use for homework ? But now it is ok

08-21-2007, 12:00 AM	#14
Spider Mr Diplomacy I survived Tebow Mania at the Mane Join Date: May 2001 Location: Elway was just an arm =MacGruder Posts: 84,438 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	big ole **** fest ........ sign me up