Thoughts on a third party, a central party.... - The Orange Mane

lazarus4444 · 08-06-2007, 01:14 AM

Hi All,

I'm curious what your opinions are on getting a third party in DC. What would be the best way to make a third party, a centrist party, a major political force in Washington? Grass roots movement starting in the smaller town? Perhaps a multi-billionaire with leadership and charisma?? I'm curious on how you guys think one should go about that and also if you don't think we need a third party i'd also like to hear your reasons why.

Oh, and also, I believe we need a third party because bi-partisan politics is getting very very old. I"m not sure how much these people actually care about American and not their own pockets. I think Bush cares more about the Republican party than he does about the United States of America. Just a bone to chew on....

Crushaholic · 08-06-2007, 02:05 AM

Ross Perot couldn't even force change, and he didn't have to rely on the government funding his campaign (which would mandate that he follow government-set rules). The two parties are so entrenched in Washington that nothing short of a second version of the Boston Tea Party will do it.

yavoon · 08-06-2007, 02:26 AM

to get a third party u'd need either a very powerful single issue extremist group or some wholesale change in the electoral system.

RaiderH8r · 08-06-2007, 09:41 AM

I'm not a big fan of middling centrist third party ideas. They produce nothing, they ride a wave of popularity and then fizzle out because at their core they produce nothing. Say what you will about the bipartite system it certainly does feed debate. Left wing academics and right wing think tanks put out ideas, theories, policy positions etc and the public debates them. When enough people get fed up with the back and forth on those ideas a centrist position rises up and feeds off of that annoyance but once the debate dies down so too does the need for that particular centrist position.

Furthermore, you're going to find it will be a difficult endeavor to sustain such a party for the long term. First it goes back to the previous paragraph, but beyond the initial figurehead of such a movement the fundamental belief of a centrist is to be middling. It's hard to find charismatic middlers.

Bronco Bob · 08-06-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yavoon

to get a third party u'd need either a very powerful single issue extremist group or some wholesale change in the electoral system.

The last time a successful third party was created was the Republican party.
And that was founded way back in 1854 by anti-slavery activists, which would
qualify as a very powerful single issue extremist group.
Even then it didn't catch on well enough until six years later when they ran
Abraham Lincoln as their candidate and won the election. The first and
only 3rd party candidate to win a presidential election.

lazarus4444 · 08-06-2007, 01:56 PM

I think a third party can be successful but it may need to be a grass roots movement. I respectfully disagree that a 3rd party is a flash in the pan as somebody suggested in so many words. There are legitimate middle of the road issues that always need to be addressed. There are plenty of people who are for issues on the right and left. I just think political life would be much more interesting with a third party and it would provide a balance of power as well.

Bronco Bob · 08-06-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazarus4444

I think a third party can be successful but it may need to be a grass roots movement. I respectfully disagree that a 3rd party is a flash in the pan as somebody suggested in so many words. There are legitimate middle of the road issues that always need to be addressed. There are plenty of people who are for issues on the right and left. I just think political life would be much more interesting with a third party and it would provide a balance of power as well.

Well, it's not like there is only the Democrats and Republicans right now.
There are already established 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. parties that
have so far gotten nowhere, including the Libertarian Party, Green Party,
Constitution Party, as well as these various parties that have appeared on the ballot:

* American Centrist Party
* America First Party
* American Fascist Party
* American Heritage Party
* American Independent Party
* American Nazi Party
* American Party
* American Patriot Party
* American Reform Party
* Centrist Party (United States)
* Christian Freedom Party
* Christian Falangist Party of America
* Citizens For Reform Party
* Commonwealth Party
* Communist Party USA
* Expansionist Party
* Freedom Road Socialist Organization
* Independent American Party
* Jefferson Republican Party
* Ku Klux Klan
* Labor Party
* Marijuana Party
* National Nihilist Party
* National Socialist Movement
* New American Independent Party
* New Union Party
* Peace and Freedom Party
* Pacifist Party of America
* Personal Choice Party
* Populist Party of America
* United Fascist Union
* Prohibition Party
* Reform Party of the United States of America
* Socialist Action
* Socialist Alternative
* Socialist Equality Party
* Socialist Labor Party
* Socialist Party USA
* Socialist Workers Party
* United Citizens Party
* Workers Party, USA
* Workers World Party
* Working Families Party
* World Socialist Party of the United States

And then there is the:

* Alaskan Independence Party
* Aloha Aina Party
* Charter Party of Cincinnati, Ohio
* Connecticut for Lieberman Party
* Conservative Party of New York
* Covenant Party (Northern Mariana Islands)
* Independence Party of Minnesota
* Independence Party of New York
* Independent Citizens Movement (US Virgin Islands)
* Liberal Party of Minnesota
* Liberal Party of New York
* Liberty Union Party (Vermont)
* Marijuana Reform Party (New York)
* New Progressive Party of Puerto Rico
* New York State Right to Life Party
* Popular Democratic Party of Puerto Rico
* Populist Party of Maryland
* Progressive Party of Washington
* Puerto Rican Independence Party
* Republican Moderate Party of Alaska
* Southern Party
* Southern Independence Party
* The Centre Party (Florida)
* United Party (Idaho)
* Vermont Progressive Party

As well as the defunct parties from the past:

# Federalist Party
# Democratic-Republican Party
# Anti-Masonic Party
# National Republican Party
# Nullifier Party
# Whig Party
# Liberty Party
# Free Soil Party
# Anti-Nebraska Party
# American Party (“Know-Nothings”)
# Opposition Party
# Constitutional Union Party
# National Union Party
# Liberal Republican Party
# Greenback Party
# Anti-Monopoly Party
# Populist Party
# National Democratic Party/Gold Democrats
# Social Democratic Party
# Home Rule Party of Hawaii
# Socialist Party of America
# Progressive Party 1912 (“Bull Moose Party”)
# Non-Partisan League
# Farmer-Labor Party
# Progressive Party 1924
# Communist League of America
# American Workers Party
# Workers Party of the United States
# Union Party
# American Labor Party
# America First Party
# States' Rights Democratic Party (“Dixiecrats”)
# Progressive Party 1948
# Vegetarian Party
# Constitution Party (United States 50s)
# Puerto Rican Socialist Party
# Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party
# Communist Workers Party
# People's Party
# U.S. Labor Party
# Citizens Party
# New Alliance Party
# Populist Party of 1980s-1990s
# Looking Back Party
# Grassroots Party
# Independent Party of Utah
# New Party
# Natural Law Party
# Mountain Party

I mean, you might as well establish a None of the Above Party, because no
matter how much YOU want someone else running, most people are still
going to vote either Republican or Democrat, whether you like it or not.

yavoon · 08-06-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Well, it's not like there is only the Democrats and Republicans right now.
There are already established 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. parties that
have so far gotten nowhere, including the Libertarian Party, Green Party,
Constitution Party, as well as these various parties that have appeared on the ballot:

* American Centrist Party
* America First Party
* American Fascist Party
* American Heritage Party
* American Independent Party
* American Nazi Party
* American Party
* American Patriot Party
* American Reform Party
* Centrist Party (United States)
* Christian Freedom Party
* Christian Falangist Party of America
* Citizens For Reform Party
* Commonwealth Party
* Communist Party USA
* Expansionist Party
* Freedom Road Socialist Organization
* Independent American Party
* Jefferson Republican Party
* Ku Klux Klan
* Labor Party
* Marijuana Party
* National Nihilist Party
* National Socialist Movement
* New American Independent Party
* New Union Party
* Peace and Freedom Party
* Pacifist Party of America
* Personal Choice Party
* Populist Party of America
* United Fascist Union
* Prohibition Party
* Reform Party of the United States of America
* Socialist Action
* Socialist Alternative
* Socialist Equality Party
* Socialist Labor Party
* Socialist Party USA
* Socialist Workers Party
* United Citizens Party
* Workers Party, USA
* Workers World Party
* Working Families Party
* World Socialist Party of the United States

And then there is the:

* Alaskan Independence Party
* Aloha Aina Party
* Charter Party of Cincinnati, Ohio
* Connecticut for Lieberman Party
* Conservative Party of New York
* Covenant Party (Northern Mariana Islands)
* Independence Party of Minnesota
* Independence Party of New York
* Independent Citizens Movement (US Virgin Islands)
* Liberal Party of Minnesota
* Liberal Party of New York
* Liberty Union Party (Vermont)
* Marijuana Reform Party (New York)
* New Progressive Party of Puerto Rico
* New York State Right to Life Party
* Popular Democratic Party of Puerto Rico
* Populist Party of Maryland
* Progressive Party of Washington
* Puerto Rican Independence Party
* Republican Moderate Party of Alaska
* Southern Party
* Southern Independence Party
* The Centre Party (Florida)
* United Party (Idaho)
* Vermont Progressive Party

As well as the defunct parties from the past:

# Federalist Party
# Democratic-Republican Party
# Anti-Masonic Party
# National Republican Party
# Nullifier Party
# Whig Party
# Liberty Party
# Free Soil Party
# Anti-Nebraska Party
# American Party (“Know-Nothings”)
# Opposition Party
# Constitutional Union Party
# National Union Party
# Liberal Republican Party
# Greenback Party
# Anti-Monopoly Party
# Populist Party
# National Democratic Party/Gold Democrats
# Social Democratic Party
# Home Rule Party of Hawaii
# Socialist Party of America
# Progressive Party 1912 (“Bull Moose Party”)
# Non-Partisan League
# Farmer-Labor Party
# Progressive Party 1924
# Communist League of America
# American Workers Party
# Workers Party of the United States
# Union Party
# American Labor Party
# America First Party
# States' Rights Democratic Party (“Dixiecrats”)
# Progressive Party 1948
# Vegetarian Party
# Constitution Party (United States 50s)
# Puerto Rican Socialist Party
# Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party
# Communist Workers Party
# People's Party
# U.S. Labor Party
# Citizens Party
# New Alliance Party
# Populist Party of 1980s-1990s
# Looking Back Party
# Grassroots Party
# Independent Party of Utah
# New Party
# Natural Law Party
# Mountain Party

I mean, you might as well establish a None of the Above Party, because no
matter how much YOU want someone else running, most people are still
going to vote either Republican or Democrat, whether you like it or not.

u could change politics massively in this country w/ instant runoff voting, or some variation on its principle.

Crushaholic · 08-06-2007, 08:14 PM

Unfortunately, the people with the power to make the changes don't want changes to the status quo. Therein lies the problem...

Bronco_Beerslug · 08-06-2007, 08:23 PM

Corproate America controls politics and they're pretty happy with the way things are going so what you see is what you get, one of the by-products of capitalism.

gunns · 08-06-2007, 08:33 PM

The American Public would actually have to give a damn and feel they could make a difference. Without a massive grassroots movement I don't see it happening. Too few feel they can make a difference.

You also have to worry about the prospect of the third party candidate getting elected and turning into a politician.

Crushaholic · 08-06-2007, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunns

You also have to worry about the prospect of the third party candidate getting elected and turning into a politician.

Great point. They all seem to be sucked into the power vacuum once they get to Washington.

Hogan11 · 08-06-2007, 08:44 PM

I'd like to know who would define exactly what "centrist" is.

08-06-2007, 01:14 AM	#1
lazarus4444 Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 1,240 Adopt-a-Bronco: Coach McDaniels	Thoughts on a third party, a central party.... Hi All, I'm curious what your opinions are on getting a third party in DC. What would be the best way to make a third party, a centrist party, a major political force in Washington? Grass roots movement starting in the smaller town? Perhaps a multi-billionaire with leadership and charisma?? I'm curious on how you guys think one should go about that and also if you don't think we need a third party i'd also like to hear your reasons why. Oh, and also, I believe we need a third party because bi-partisan politics is getting very very old. I"m not sure how much these people actually care about American and not their own pockets. I think Bush cares more about the Republican party than he does about the United States of America. Just a bone to chew on....

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08-06-2007, 02:05 AM	#2
Crushaholic Armchair Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 22,044	Ross Perot couldn't even force change, and he didn't have to rely on the government funding his campaign (which would mandate that he follow government-set rules). The two parties are so entrenched in Washington that nothing short of a second version of the Boston Tea Party will do it.

08-06-2007, 02:26 AM	#3
yavoon Ring of Famer Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 10,260	to get a third party u'd need either a very powerful single issue extremist group or some wholesale change in the electoral system.

08-06-2007, 09:41 AM	#4
RaiderH8r In The Bag Don't worry. Nobody's listening. Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Meth Alley Posts: 9,926 Adopt-a-Bronco: MethWolfe	I'm not a big fan of middling centrist third party ideas. They produce nothing, they ride a wave of popularity and then fizzle out because at their core they produce nothing. Say what you will about the bipartite system it certainly does feed debate. Left wing academics and right wing think tanks put out ideas, theories, policy positions etc and the public debates them. When enough people get fed up with the back and forth on those ideas a centrist position rises up and feeds off of that annoyance but once the debate dies down so too does the need for that particular centrist position. Furthermore, you're going to find it will be a difficult endeavor to sustain such a party for the long term. First it goes back to the previous paragraph, but beyond the initial figurehead of such a movement the fundamental belief of a centrist is to be middling. It's hard to find charismatic middlers.

08-06-2007, 01:56 PM	#6
lazarus4444 Ring of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 1,240 Adopt-a-Bronco: Coach McDaniels	I think a third party can be successful but it may need to be a grass roots movement. I respectfully disagree that a 3rd party is a flash in the pan as somebody suggested in so many words. There are legitimate middle of the road issues that always need to be addressed. There are plenty of people who are for issues on the right and left. I just think political life would be much more interesting with a third party and it would provide a balance of power as well.

08-06-2007, 08:14 PM	#9
Crushaholic Armchair Poster Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Topeka, KS Posts: 22,044	Unfortunately, the people with the power to make the changes don't want changes to the status quo. Therein lies the problem...

08-06-2007, 08:23 PM	#10
Bronco_Beerslug Angling in the Deep Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Texas Riviera, Southern Mountains Posts: 24,281	Corproate America controls politics and they're pretty happy with the way things are going so what you see is what you get, one of the by-products of capitalism.

08-06-2007, 08:33 PM	#11
gunns I WANT DEFENSE! Defense, defense, defense Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Always Hoping Posts: 11,661 Adopt-a-Bronco: Defense	The American Public would actually have to give a damn and feel they could make a difference. Without a massive grassroots movement I don't see it happening. Too few feel they can make a difference. You also have to worry about the prospect of the third party candidate getting elected and turning into a politician.

08-06-2007, 08:44 PM	#13
Hogan11 Rock-N-Roll Historian Let's take these SOB's out!!!!!! Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: W.NY.B.C. Posts: 21,300 Adopt-a-Bronco: Floyd Little	I'd like to know who would define exactly what "centrist" is.