Krieger: Mark Cuban vs. David Stern...Cuban Wins. - The Orange Mane

epicSocialism4tw · 07-24-2007, 01:39 PM

KRIEGER: Referee crisis vindicates Cuban crusade

Dave Krieger

July 24, 2007
It's probably safe to say that even Mark Cuban didn't want to be right this badly.
But he was. Just this badly.

The maverick Mavericks owner has been jousting with NBA commissioner David Stern over the quality and transparency of the league's on-court officiating almost since the day he took over in Dallas. It was the single biggest cause of the now-famous rift between the two men.

Whatever you think of Cuban, you've pretty much got to admit he was dead right about this and Stern was dead wrong. And the commissioner's contempt for those who dared criticize his referees ended up doing great damage to the league he loves.

Stern was at his autocratic best when defending his league's opaque, subjective officiating, insisting it was wonderful and the details were nobody's business. So far as I know, even Cuban didn't suspect a Tim Donaghy scenario - a referee allegedly at the beck and call of "mobbed-up" bookies. This sounds more like a Billy Crystal-Martin Scorsese collaboration than Stern's new nightmare.

But there you are. It is a logical if bizarre extension of the lack of public accountability Cuban long ago pointed out.

It's not as if we haven't seen referees acting for personal reasons before. Nuggets fans will recall referee Steve Javie ejecting Dan Issel or Nick Van Exel, or both, every chance he got. It was personal and it was obvious.

Nor were Issel and Van Exel the only people who believed Javie used his whistle to enforce personal grudges. In fact, Allen Iverson said as much last season. Then the league fined him and made him take it back.

Cuban suspected the lack of transparency in NBA officiating could permit all sorts of personal agendas. At one point, he hired an outfit to compile a database that would point up statistical variations in individual referee's performances.

My understanding is Stern and his operations department thought he was playing a blame game and ignored his data. As far as they were concerned, Cuban was just another fan unhappy with calls against his club. In fact, that's how they define every critic.

Would Donaghy have been caught earlier with such outside monitoring? I have no idea. But as this scandal unfolds, the league's previous assertions that it alone is qualified to judge the work of officials sound more like a cover-up than a policy.

In a blog post late last week, before the NBA brought down its cone of silence, Cuban was uncharacteristically diplomatic in pressing his point:

"As bad as the allegations facing the NBA today are, it's also an opportunity to face every allegation that has ever been directed towards the NBA and its officials and pre-empt them from ever occurring in the future," he wrote.

"Calamity can be a catalyst for significant change. There are any number of examples in the business world where calamity led to better management, better communications, greater transparency and even better products. As the proverb goes, Necessity is the Mother of Invention.

"The NBA took a hit (Friday). Behind that hit is a catalyst and opportunity for significant change that could make the NBA stronger than it ever has been. It's a chance to proactively put in place people, processes and transparency that will forever silence those who will question the NBA's integrity.

"I have complete confidence that David Stern and Adam Silver will do just that and the NBA and our officiating will be all the stronger for it."

I don't know whether Cuban really has such confidence or is trying to show Stern an escape route through his massive miscalculation of this threat.

Frankly, I don't share his confidence.

Now we have allegations of intentional corruption by a referee. And Cuban is still out there, advocating a system of public accountability that a less defensive commissioner might have welcomed before it came to this.

kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com

-Slap- · 07-24-2007, 01:53 PM

Hey Lloser, I thought it was all a big NBA conspiracy against Cuban and that mincing German choke artist.

Turns out this big gambling controversy was about some guy getting in over his head with organized crime. Which is how this kind of thing always happens.

GonzoLays · 07-24-2007, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slap-

Hey Lloser, I thought it was all a big NBA conspiracy against Cuban and that mincing German choke artist.

Turns out this big gambling controversy was about some guy getting in over his head with organized crime. Which is how this kind of thing always happens.

{Slap, with tears in his eyes...} See you around Invesco someday, Taco. {sniffle}

Does this place look like Invesco to anyone?

epicSocialism4tw · 07-24-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slap-

Hey Lloser, I thought it was all a big NBA conspiracy against Cuban and that mincing German choke artist.
Turns out this big gambling controversy was about some guy getting in over his head with organized crime. Which is how this kind of thing always happens.

Speaking of losers, -Schlep-, didnt you leave with your tail between your legs like the internet bully coward you are?

You are a disgrace to mob-affiliated gambling degenerates everywhere.

Kaylore · 07-24-2007, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angryllama

Speaking of losers, -Schlep-, didnt you leave with your tail between your legs

I don't think you have room to talk, Llama. You just described yourself after the Mavs lost in the playoffs. Your go-into-hiding act every time they lose really hurts your image around here. I mean even Bob had the balls to show up and eat his words that the Chiefs would stop Quentin Griffin.

Smiling Assassin27 · 07-24-2007, 03:35 PM

Stern had best take back that 'palaver' comment about the Spurs-Suns series...

epicSocialism4tw · 07-24-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

I don't think you have room to talk, Llama. You just described yourself after the Mavs lost in the playoffs. Your go-into-hiding act every time they lose really hurts your image around here. I mean even Bob had the balls to show up and eat his words that the Chiefs would stop Quentin Griffin.

I talked about it with anyone who asked. I recently found an entire thread on the subject dedicated to little ol' me. Maybe if I would have posted on it earlier things would be different? Probably not. I wasnt aware of this, but it seems like I drove much of the basketball conversation here on the board. In that light it may be important to post general "You were right" posts, but otherwise its just a waste of time. Those people who enjoyed the flaming wouldnt have shown up on any thread that "I was right" on either. However, if someone asked me about it, I told them.

Back to how Cuban beat Stern

crowebomber · 07-24-2007, 03:37 PM

Sorry to step in the middle of your little make-out session boys, but responding to the article I thought Stern cut his throat in the press conference when he went on and on about the process they have in place to monitor refs. From a rep in the stand at every game who then watches it on tape to an outside council who then reviews each ref, he was almost bragging about the thorough process they have.

But all he did was outline a big costly process that didn't do what it intended to do at all. It flat out didn't work. It couldn't even catch the absolute worst case scenario.

So, if it couldn't catch the worst case, imagine all the other scenarios that have slipped through the cracks, like the personal grudges refs have against players or teams or tacit favoritism they give to others.

epicSocialism4tw · 07-24-2007, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crowebomber

Sorry to step in the middle of your little make-out session boys, but responding to the article I thought Stern cut his throat in the press conference when he went on and on about the process they have in place to monitor refs. From a rep in the stand at every game who then watches it on tape to an outside council who then reviews each ref, he was almost bragging about the thorough process they have.
But all he did was outline a big costly process that didn't do what it intended to do at all. It flat out didn't work. It couldn't even catch the absolute worst case scenario.
So, if it couldn't catch the worst case, imagine all the other scenarios that have slipped through the cracks, like the personal grudges refs have against players or teams or tacit favoritism they give to others.

The cases that come to mind immediately are the Dan Issel/Nick Van Exel feuds with Steve Javie and the ref conferences that the entire modern Spurs organization has on the court after every foul call.

Refs do hold grudges. Rasheed Wallace comes to mind. Mark Cuban comes to mind.

baja · 07-24-2007, 03:49 PM

Exactly what is an angryllama?

baja · 07-24-2007, 03:53 PM

baja · 07-24-2007, 03:54 PM

Or maybe;

baja · 07-24-2007, 03:56 PM

Possibly;

baja · 07-24-2007, 03:57 PM

Maybe;

noneubizwax · 07-24-2007, 03:59 PM

Funny I picture him more like this

http://www.myblam.com/Media/pictures...funny-lama.jpg

epicSocialism4tw · 07-24-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baja fan

Exactly what is an angryllama?

Actually, my name comes from a show called "Pet Psychic" or some nonsense. I thought it so funny at the time that I took the name of the subject in my favorite episode.

Bronco_Beerslug · 07-24-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Slap-

Hey Lloser, I thought it was all a big NBA conspiracy against Cuban and that mincing German choke artist.

Turns out this big gambling controversy was about some guy getting in over his head with organized crime. Which is how this kind of thing always happens.

That's all it is. No way to stop any ref in any sport from doing it if they want to.

I love seeing the Mad Yak crying out for some type of false vindication though.

epicSocialism4tw · 07-24-2007, 04:56 PM

Former referee Mike Mathis weighs in, saying:

1) David Stern operates a good ol' boy network of refs.

2) David Stern fails in all three aspects of ensuring quality work: hiring good people, teaching/training, holding accountability.

3) The quality of official under Stern has dropped dramatically.

4) Ref observers are useless, not respected by officials.

freak6 · 07-24-2007, 05:59 PM

clean · 07-24-2007, 07:01 PM

His record against Don Nelson isn’t nearly as impressive.

Saturday, June 30, 2007

“The latest skirmish in this feud was set off by Mr. Cuban, who last week informed Mr. Nelson that he was filing a counterclaim in arbitration alleging that Mr. Nelson, now coach of the Golden State Warriors, used inside information to beat the Mavericks in the first round of the NBA playoffs and three times without a loss in the regular season.

Mr. Cuban is not insinuating that a source inside the Mavericks fed Mr. Nelson inappropriate information. Rather, he's saying that Mr. Nelson gathered information during his decade with the Mavericks and used it against them in his first season with the Warriors. Part of his claim, apparently, is that he wants Mr. Nelson barred from coaching against the Mavs. That seems unlikely.”

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....27793550.html

07-24-2007, 01:39 PM	#1
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	Krieger: Mark Cuban vs. David Stern...Cuban Wins. KRIEGER: Referee crisis vindicates Cuban crusade Dave Krieger July 24, 2007 It's probably safe to say that even Mark Cuban didn't want to be right this badly. But he was. Just this badly. The maverick Mavericks owner has been jousting with NBA commissioner David Stern over the quality and transparency of the league's on-court officiating almost since the day he took over in Dallas. It was the single biggest cause of the now-famous rift between the two men. Whatever you think of Cuban, you've pretty much got to admit he was dead right about this and Stern was dead wrong. And the commissioner's contempt for those who dared criticize his referees ended up doing great damage to the league he loves. Stern was at his autocratic best when defending his league's opaque, subjective officiating, insisting it was wonderful and the details were nobody's business. So far as I know, even Cuban didn't suspect a Tim Donaghy scenario - a referee allegedly at the beck and call of "mobbed-up" bookies. This sounds more like a Billy Crystal-Martin Scorsese collaboration than Stern's new nightmare. But there you are. It is a logical if bizarre extension of the lack of public accountability Cuban long ago pointed out. It's not as if we haven't seen referees acting for personal reasons before. Nuggets fans will recall referee Steve Javie ejecting Dan Issel or Nick Van Exel, or both, every chance he got. It was personal and it was obvious. Nor were Issel and Van Exel the only people who believed Javie used his whistle to enforce personal grudges. In fact, Allen Iverson said as much last season. Then the league fined him and made him take it back. Cuban suspected the lack of transparency in NBA officiating could permit all sorts of personal agendas. At one point, he hired an outfit to compile a database that would point up statistical variations in individual referee's performances. My understanding is Stern and his operations department thought he was playing a blame game and ignored his data. As far as they were concerned, Cuban was just another fan unhappy with calls against his club. In fact, that's how they define every critic. Would Donaghy have been caught earlier with such outside monitoring? I have no idea. But as this scandal unfolds, the league's previous assertions that it alone is qualified to judge the work of officials sound more like a cover-up than a policy. In a blog post late last week, before the NBA brought down its cone of silence, Cuban was uncharacteristically diplomatic in pressing his point: "As bad as the allegations facing the NBA today are, it's also an opportunity to face every allegation that has ever been directed towards the NBA and its officials and pre-empt them from ever occurring in the future," he wrote. "Calamity can be a catalyst for significant change. There are any number of examples in the business world where calamity led to better management, better communications, greater transparency and even better products. As the proverb goes, Necessity is the Mother of Invention. "The NBA took a hit (Friday). Behind that hit is a catalyst and opportunity for significant change that could make the NBA stronger than it ever has been. It's a chance to proactively put in place people, processes and transparency that will forever silence those who will question the NBA's integrity. "I have complete confidence that David Stern and Adam Silver will do just that and the NBA and our officiating will be all the stronger for it." I don't know whether Cuban really has such confidence or is trying to show Stern an escape route through his massive miscalculation of this threat. Frankly, I don't share his confidence. Now we have allegations of intentional corruption by a referee. And Cuban is still out there, advocating a system of public accountability that a less defensive commissioner might have welcomed before it came to this. kriegerd@RockyMountainNews.com Last edited by epicSocialism4tw; 07-24-2007 at 01:46 PM..

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07-24-2007, 01:53 PM	#2
-Slap- Ring of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 31,895	Hey Lloser, I thought it was all a big NBA conspiracy against Cuban and that mincing German choke artist. Turns out this big gambling controversy was about some guy getting in over his head with organized crime. Which is how this kind of thing always happens.

07-24-2007, 03:35 PM	#6
Smiling Assassin27 STOP! KIPER TIME! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: In a van down by the river Posts: 10,978 Adopt-a-Bronco: Von Miller	Stern had best take back that 'palaver' comment about the Spurs-Suns series...

07-24-2007, 03:37 PM	#8
crowebomber Ring of Famer Old School Sucka Fool Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: P-Town Posts: 1,517 Adopt-a-Bronco: Frank Tripucka	Sorry to step in the middle of your little make-out session boys, but responding to the article I thought Stern cut his throat in the press conference when he went on and on about the process they have in place to monitor refs. From a rep in the stand at every game who then watches it on tape to an outside council who then reviews each ref, he was almost bragging about the thorough process they have. But all he did was outline a big costly process that didn't do what it intended to do at all. It flat out didn't work. It couldn't even catch the absolute worst case scenario. So, if it couldn't catch the worst case, imagine all the other scenarios that have slipped through the cracks, like the personal grudges refs have against players or teams or tacit favoritism they give to others.

07-24-2007, 03:49 PM	#10
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,907 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	Exactly what is an angryllama?

07-24-2007, 03:53 PM	#11
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,907 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book

07-24-2007, 03:54 PM	#12
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,907 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	Or maybe;

07-24-2007, 03:56 PM	#13
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,907 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	Possibly;

07-24-2007, 03:57 PM	#14
baja It is what it Is. Pay attention. Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 53,907 Adopt-a-Bronco: Buy My Book	Maybe;

07-24-2007, 03:59 PM	#15
noneubizwax Solid Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York Posts: 115	Funny I picture him more like this http://www.myblam.com/Media/pictures...funny-lama.jpg

07-24-2007, 04:56 PM	#18
epicSocialism4tw Tebowing the long haul all the way to the title Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: TX, USA Posts: 37,072 Adopt-a-Bronco: Champ Bailey	Former referee Mike Mathis weighs in, saying: 1) David Stern operates a good ol' boy network of refs. 2) David Stern fails in all three aspects of ensuring quality work: hiring good people, teaching/training, holding accountability. 3) The quality of official under Stern has dropped dramatically. 4) Ref observers are useless, not respected by officials.

07-24-2007, 05:59 PM	#19
freak6 3,631 - WAKE UP!!!! Impeach President Cheney and Puppet Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: San Diego Posts: 4,651 Adopt-a-Bronco: MJK

07-24-2007, 07:01 PM	#20
clean Dazed And Frantic Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 820	His record against Don Nelson isn’t nearly as impressive. Saturday, June 30, 2007 “The latest skirmish in this feud was set off by Mr. Cuban, who last week informed Mr. Nelson that he was filing a counterclaim in arbitration alleging that Mr. Nelson, now coach of the Golden State Warriors, used inside information to beat the Mavericks in the first round of the NBA playoffs and three times without a loss in the regular season. Mr. Cuban is not insinuating that a source inside the Mavericks fed Mr. Nelson inappropriate information. Rather, he's saying that Mr. Nelson gathered information during his decade with the Mavericks and used it against them in his first season with the Warriors. Part of his claim, apparently, is that he wants Mr. Nelson barred from coaching against the Mavs. That seems unlikely.” http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....27793550.html