If Hitler had a previous life, was he Brigham Young?

[freak6]

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:110)
Lest anyone think Young was here merely giving us his "personal opinion" as some LDS apologists would like to maintain, he also says:

"I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life...If there is any elder here, or any member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Brigham Young -Journal of Discourses, 16:161).
Elswhere, Young wrote:

"I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture" (Journal of Discourses (vol 13, page 95),1870)
Again, in 1854 he writes:

"When all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood, and of coming into the kingdom of God, and of being redeemed from the four quarters of the earth, and have received their resurrection from the dead, then it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity" (Journal of Discourses 2:143).
Bill McKeever cites on his "Mormon Research Ministries" website:


"Joseph Fielding Smith stated, "Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race" (The Way to Perfection, p.101).
and again:

"The negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow therefrom..." (Mormon Doctrine, p.527, 1966 ed.)

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How is there an American "University" named after him?

Brainwashing.

How did that University do a complete DNA study completey disproving it's own religious basis, and yet it still survives?

Thorough brainwashing.

The founder made up his own story by making up his own story from some hieroglyphs he purchased, of course he had no idea what they really meant and he twisted some tail and called it the book of Abraham, even though the hieroglyphs tell of no such story whatsoever.

As the most easily debunked and ridiculous form of christianity so absurd they actually proved the basis for thier own existence to be a complete hoax and lie, it stands as a great example of how poisonous religion truly is.

[Garcia Bronco]

What about your system of beliefs?

I don't know about the founding of mormonism, but I do know many that have done amazing misson work to help others get their lives right. So the results are pretty good in that regard.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

What about your system of beliefs?

I don't know about the founding of mormonism, but I do know many that have done amazing misson work to help others get their lives right. So the results are pretty good in that regard.

1st post already goes into making it personal...lmao

Granted, I think the missionary work they do is AWESOME!!! Thankless, and they do great work around the world. It is inspirational stuff to say the least.

My system of belief isn't the topic.

The topic is Brigham Young and his racist diatribes, and what does it say about that faith.

Additionally, the University founded in his his name disproved the basis for it's own existence.

[Garcia Bronco]

Well it was the times. Ideas are typically the result of nurture, we shouldn't let socialized behavior of the past be the driving force of how we deal with things in the present.

[Atlas]

I doubt it Freak but if he was reincarnated I know who he is.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Well it was the times. Ideas are typically the result of nurture, we shouldn't let socialized behavior of the past be the driving force of how we deal with things in the present.

Not my point.

The question is, if Hitler had a previous life, was he Brigham Young, and the entire faith is so brazenly absurd, they even disproved the basis for thier own existence, yet still they exist.

How mind boggling is that?

It is INSANE!!!

Read what Brigham Young taught as the word of god, and comment on him.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Just when I thought threads couldn't get any dumber...Raise your standards, boys and girls...

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Well it was the times. Ideas are typically the result of nurture, we shouldn't let socialized behavior of the past be the driving force of how we deal with things in the present.

True. Most Protestant sects at the time had the same attitude towards
the races, especially in the South. I'd imagine a quick check of names
of colleges in the US would turn up quite a few named after racists
that were strongly against the mixing of the races.
Comparing B Young to Hitler is a bit extreme. Nowhere do I see B Young
calling for the setting up of death camps to exterminate Africans.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

True. Most Protestant sects at the time had the same attitude towards
the races, especially in the South. I'd imagine a quick check of names
of colleges in the US would turn up quite a few named after racists
that were strongly against the mixing of the races.
Comparing B Young to Hitler is a bit extreme. Nowhere do I see B Young
calling for the setting up of death camps to exterminate Africans.

Well he is saying that if you mate with a negro, you should be put to death.

How can anyone follow the teachings of this blatant racist?

[freak6]

Originally Posted by Smiling Assassin27

Just when I thought threads couldn't get any dumber...Raise your standards, boys and girls...

Care to comment on Brigham Young's racism?

How about how BYU themselves did DNA testing disproving the basis for the entire faith itself!

[freak6]

I think you guys are missing the point...

Brigham Young said he was PREACHING the word of God.

Since this obviously was not the word of God, was he:

A. A liar

B. A liar and a racist

C. Not preaching the word of god, and a complete hoax

D. All of the above, throwing all of his teachings and claims in doubt, exposing him as a charlatan, just like his predecessor Joseph Smith

If you answered D, you are correct.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by freak6

I think you guys are missing the point...

Brigham Young said he was PREACHING the word of God.

Since this obviously was not the word of God, was he:

A. A liar

B. A liar and a racist

C. Not preaching the word of god, and a complete hoax

D. All of the above, throwing all of his teachings and claims in doubt, exposing him as a charlatan, just like his predecessor Joseph Smith

If you answered D, you are correct.

or his predeccessor's predecessor predecessor predecessor the crazy ass who started all this abraham.

promised land?

choosen ppl?

****ing a-hole.

but seriously, attacking mormons. I dont know man, seems pretty spiteful.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by yavoon

or his predeccessor's predecessor predecessor predecessor the crazy ass who started all this abraham.

promised land?

choosen ppl?

****ing a-hole.

but seriously, attacking mormons. I dont know man, seems pretty spiteful.

I just want to verify that I am not the only person who thinks those people are completely insane.

I'd really really like a mormon to come and explain how they believe in any of it.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by freak6

I just want to verify that I am not the only person who thinks those people are completely insane.

I'd really really like a mormon to come and explain how they believe in any of it.

if religion had to be held to account for every racist/supremacist utterance it made there'd be no end. face it, god is on YOUR side. thats just how it works.

I really don't even see much that is special, yah ok he was a racist. woooo. are mormons racist today? I mean if they were still doing crazy **** like tryin to kill darkie then yah I'd be w/ u. but if we're gna attack religion, which is a fine idea. attacking the silly mormons out in utah who do almost nothing to anyone just seems like a waste of time and effort.

[yavoon]

is this like a mitt romney thing? send some chain mail around making sure everyone REALLY hates mormons?

[freak6]

Originally Posted by yavoon

attacking the silly mormons out in utah who do almost nothing to anyone just seems like a waste of time and effort.

Discrediting the authors of the religion strip away the basis for it's existence though.

That, and the fact BYU did a DNA study that destroyed thier entire myth of the Jaredites and the rest of the bs they teach as fact.

They disproved thier own entire basis for existence!!

[freak6]

Originally Posted by yavoon

is this like a mitt romney thing? send some chain mail around making sure everyone REALLY hates mormons?

I'd love to debate him on this, but no, it isn't about romney.

[gunns]

No, it's Pope Benedict, who thinks their is only one true church, just like Hitler thought there was only one true race.

A lot of what you posted reminds me of the Baptists, a religion that a lot of the Klu Klux Klan members belong to.

[yavoon]

Originally Posted by freak6

Discrediting the authors of the religion strip away the basis for it's existence though.

That, and the fact BYU did a DNA study that destroyed thier entire myth of the Jaredites and the rest of the bs they teach as fact.

They disproved thier own entire basis for existence!!

if I had a dollar for everytime I disproved religion I'd be talking to u guys from my private yacht.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by yavoon

if I had a dollar for everytime I disproved religion I'd be talking to u guys from my private yacht.

How many times have you gotten a Priest or Pastor to admit that thier god was an impossbility?

I'm batting 1.000 in that regard.

6/6

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by freak6

How many times have you gotten a Priest or Pastor to admit that thier god was an impossbility?

I'm batting 1.000 in that regard.

6/6

You crack me up every time you say that.

I'm sure that you have talked to all these pastors, and priests, and somehow the mighty Freak got them to admit their god is fake.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by freak6

1st post already goes into making it personal...lmao

Granted, I think the missionary work they do is AWESOME!!! Thankless, and they do great work around the world. It is inspirational stuff to say the least.

My system of belief isn't the topic.

The topic is Brigham Young and his racist diatribes, and what does it say about that faith.

Additionally, the University founded in his his name disproved the basis for it's own existence.

Ok, so if Brigham said a series of statements that are offensive, then he said it and will be accountable to God for those things that he said. Likewise he will give an account of the good things that he did during his life, and the many lives that he saved during the Exodus from Illinois. Many dozens died in the track by handcart across the west, and as folks attempted to survive in a dessert it took someone with his great organizational skills to keep folks alive. Once when a large party of Saints were stranded in Wyoming in a blizzard he stopped the meeting they were having (a meeting of all the church members in Utah at the time) and told them to if they were real Latter Day Saints that they needed several horse teams together and by first light to go put their faith into action. He was a strong leader during a time when hundreds of Mormons had been killed in Missouri, and later expelled from Illinois. Keep in mind that many of the persecutions of the early members of the church were by pro-slave folks in Missouri. The majority of the Saints moving into their state were anti-slavery. I guess they were too progressive?

Another question to ask honestly is whether the Mormons as a people were more or less bigoted than the rest of the nation at the time these words were apparently spoken. If various figures of history were lined up and you could hear first hand their views on various subjects from slavery to women’s rights, how many would come out smelling like roses? If you were transported to 100 years from now, how many of your progressive views would be not only antiquated, but evil? Sadly we reflect the times in which we live.

Another interesting story of Bingham was when he found out that a large number (several thousand) US troops were coming to put down a non-existent revolt in Salt Lake. He stood before the Saints and told the people that they were going to fight against the US government and beat them back. In any case the next day he stood before the people and stated that yesterday you heard from Brigham the man, today I will tell you that you must not lift up your arms against this force. The Saints proceeded to bury the Salt Lake City Temple foundation, and plowed it under to appear as a farm field. The troops marched into the city without incident.

I appreciate the fact that created some separation between your feelings toward current members of the church and their efforts to make a positive impact in the world and your hatred of the some of acts of Brigham Young.

So, how to LDS folks treat others of different faith and races now? What does the church encourage now? Most folks that are LDS go out of their way to be inclusive. Are we perfect – not a prayer, we are attempting to be. There are more non English speaking members of the LDS faith now than there are members living in the States. When New Orleans was going to be hit with that hurricane a few years ago, guess who had trucks on the ground ready to go BEFORE the storm even hit ground. Do you know how many thousands of Africans were sponsored to start their own businesses through the Mormon church’s efforts in recent years? (not to mention the millions that are given in aide.) Now, do we get -- or want credit in the media for these things? Nope, but it is a reflection of who we want to be as a people.

So when you say a past prophet of the church did this or that, and don’t have an interest in balancing those statements with the incredible good that they did during their lives. (Maybe you don’t want, selectively believe, or can’t see it.) I also have to wonder about the incredible energy that you have shown in being fairly one-dimensional in your posts lately. You have stated recently that you think that religion in general is a poison. Well, I guess based on the far depths you have gone to dredge up obscurities on my faith, (which influence no active member’s ideology) but fuel your own paranoia I guess I can see how you may have a hard time balancing out your views. Was Mother Theresa poisoned by her faith, or did it help her to bless others? It helped her, along with most that partake of formalized religion. It corrupts some I guess, but as most faiths teach tolerance and respect of others (including the LDS faith) then usually we come out having passed through its influence better folks. What are the fruits of the people as a whole? I have read many of Brigham’s past statements and Joseph Smiths, and more modern prophets, and I think that I am better for it.

Years ago I remember talking to an old guy on my mission who was so mad at President Kimball (prophet during the 1970’s) as “Kimball extended the priesthood to blacks” – I didn’t know what to say to the guy to find any type of common ground, I guess we didn’t have much common ground knowing where I stand, so I moved on and I flt sorry for the guy for his hate.

[freak6]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

You crack me up every time you say that.

I'm sure that you have talked to all these pastors, and priests, and somehow the mighty Freak got them to admit their god is fake.

Proof is proof. Fact is fact.

6 out of 6.

It's not a difficult thing to do.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by freak6

How many times have you gotten a Priest or Pastor to admit that thier god was an impossbility?

I'm batting 1.000 in that regard.

6/6

It was William Blake that said "A person convinced against thier will, holds the same opinion still."

[freak6]

Originally Posted by Bob

Another question to ask honestly is whether the Mormons as a people were more or less bigoted than the rest of the nation at the time these words were apparently spoken.

Finally. Bob:

1. Was Brigham Young speaking the word of God as he claimed
when he said "If you seed with a black person the penalty will be death, and it will always be so".

If you answer Yes, then then your "god" is a racist psychopath.

If you answer No, then Brigham Young is a charlatan.

2. Since Joseph Smith did not accurately translate the book of Abraham, in fact he made what he wanted those hieroglyphs to say to further his cause because he could not read hieroglyphs, is he a complete charlatan, insane, or both?

3. BYU themselves did a DNA study showing that the myths they believe in are definitively not possible, so is the basis for the Mormon faith made up by Joseph Smith when he pretended to read those hieroglyphs a complete falsehood?