When Criminals Need Guns, They Go to the Gun Shop

[Bronco_Beerslug]

How convenient for the thieves and murders in the country.

---------------------------------------------------------
Gun shops under closer scrutiny

By DAVID B. CARUSO, Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK - When criminals need guns, they have plenty of options in a country with nearly 100,000 licensed gun stores. But drug dealers and other crooks don't shop just anywhere. They have their favorites.

In Compton, Calif., gangsters preferred Boulevard Sales & Service, a shop police said was so felon-friendly, some salesmen offered tips on how to buy a gun despite a criminal record.

In Philadelphia, shady gun buyers sent girlfriends to a suburban pawn shop, Lou's Loan, where the staff wouldn't raise a fuss if a young woman came by a few times a month to purchase cheap handguns.

And on the outskirts of New Orleans, killers-to-be armed themselves at Elliot's Gun Shop. Over the past five years, the store was the source of 2,300 weapons later linked to crime, including an astonishing 125 homicides, according to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

In fact, government figures show that an extremely small number of gun shops account for a spectacularly large number of weapons used in crimes.

Stores like these have long occupied protected territory. The products they sell are legal. Congress has sheltered them from lawsuits and limited the power of regulators. It can take years for the ATF to revoke a dealer's license.

But there are signs that scrutiny is on the rise.

Over the past three years, ATF agents have cracked down on some of the stores most notorious for selling large numbers of weapons used in street crime. In 2005 and 2006, some 220 firearms dealers had their licenses revoked — 20 more than in the previous eight years combined.

More than two dozen stores have also been hit with lawsuits, most notably by the city of New York, where Mayor Michael Bloomberg has made gun control a talking point of what could be a nascent presidential campaign.

The pickup in enforcement action has delighted gun-control groups — and dismayed Second Amendment advocates, who say law-abiding merchants are being driven out of business.

"I've never run into a situation where a dealer has intentionally violated the law," said Richard Gardiner, a Virginia lawyer who represents gun dealers. If guns are being bought at these stores by criminals, "it is because they are being exploited by people who know how to beat the system."

Gun-control advocates, though encouraged by an increase in scrutiny, believe the government is still doing too little. The number of shops disciplined by the government, they say, represents just a fraction of those that aren't playing by the rules.

"There are bad apples out there," said Brady Center attorney Daniel Vice. "ATF knows who they are. The manufacturers know who they are. But most of them are still operating."

CONT.

[W*GS]

Of course, to the Brady cabal and the other gun haters, all gun shops are "bad apples"...

[W*GS]

BTW, straw purchases are already illegal.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with going after skanky gun shops. However, those on the gun-fearing side of the issue will try to make the government go after all gun shops, which won't work, and merely reveals the gun-haters for what they are - pro-criminal scumbags.

[mosca]

And if gun shops are banned, they'll get their guns from the black market. What's new in the world?

[Florida_Bronco]

Originally Posted by W*GS

BTW, straw purchases are already illegal.

Yep, and those shops who knowingly sell guns illegally should be punished as such. I don't see where the big relevation is here.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Of course, to the Brady cabal and the other gun haters, all gun shops are "bad apples"...

You just can't stand it when it's pointed out how easy it is for criminals to arm themselves in this country, can you? How come the NRA and their gun fanatics aren't out in front on this issue?

Originally Posted by mosca

And if gun shops are banned, they'll get their guns from the black market. What's new in the world?

Oh please.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

You just can't stand it when it's pointed out how easy it is for criminals to arm themselves in this country, can you? How come the NRA and their gun fanatics aren't out in front on this issue?

If W*GS ever took over Paul Tagliabue's job, his first act as NFL Commissioner would be to get rid of the rules and the refs.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If W*GS ever took over Paul Tagliabue's job, his first act as NFL Commissioner would be to get rid of the rules and the refs.

I just fail to see why enacting uniform firearm purchase laws across the country to prevent scenarios just like this one and Cho scares the gun lobby. In fact, they should be actively involved in forming common sense firearm sales laws.

[Garcia Bronco]

Guns are neccessary for protection. Just look at what happened in New Orleans when social order decayed in day.

[Florida_Bronco]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

I just fail to see why enacting uniform firearm purchase laws across the country to prevent scenarios just like this one and Cho scares the gun lobby. In fact, they should be actively involved in forming common sense firearm sales laws.

We already have the laws, the problem is enforcing them. The background check system needs to be improved and made faster though.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

You just can't stand it when it's pointed out how easy it is for criminals to arm themselves in this country, can you?

Ummm, you've got that exactly wrong. It's you and your ilk who think that by over-regulating or eliminating all legitimate channels for purchasing firearms, criminals will be disarmed. The laws to get the skanky gun shops are already on the books - they merely need to be enforced. Passing more laws isn't necessary.

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

How come the NRA and their gun fanatics aren't out in front on this issue?

We are, dope. The NRA is always insisting that current gun laws are enforced.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Ummm, you've got that exactly wrong. It's you and your ilk who think that by over-regulating or eliminating all legitimate channels for purchasing firearms, criminals will be disarmed. The laws to get the skanky gun shops are already on the books - they merely need to be enforced. Passing more laws isn't necessary.

Reading comprehension not yet awake this AM? But I forgot, to you any common sense or logic when it comes to sensible firearm sales legislation is nothing more than an attempt to take your gun from you. And all the exisisting sales laws are just fine, right (see Cho)?

Originally Posted by W*GS

We are, dope. The NRA is always insisting that current gun laws are enforced.

Like the ones that allow mentally defective humans instant access to firearms?

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

Guns are neccessary for protection. Just look at what happened in New Orleans when social order decayed in day.

Yeah, you had criminals with guns shooting at rescue helicopters.
I guess those criminals needed to protect themselves from the people
trying to rescue the sick and drowning.

[Spider]

bunch of **** ........

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

I just fail to see why enacting uniform firearm purchase laws across the country to prevent scenarios just like this one and Cho scares the gun lobby.

As has been pointed out, the laws are already written. They're just not enforced as they should be.

Originally Posted by Bronco_Beerslug

In fact, they should be actively involved in forming common sense firearm sales laws.

This language is right out of the anti-gunners' PR screed. What they call "common sense" really means "no gun purchases by anyone, ever".

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If W*GS ever took over Paul Tagliabue's job, his first act as NFL Commissioner would be to get rid of the rules and the refs.

Explain to me how criminals in your world will suddenly begin obeying the law.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

If W*GS ever took over Paul Tagliabue's job, his first act as NFL Commissioner would be to get rid of the rules and the refs.

This I agree with , and claims W*GS he inst an anarchist

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

This I agree with , and claims W*GS he inst an anarchist

See

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpos...6&postcount=16

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by W*GS

As has been pointed out, the laws are already written. They're just not enforced as they should be.

How would you enforce the laws differently than what the ATF is doing in
the lead article that Beerslug posted? Detail your scenario for the ATF
enforcing the current gun laws to keep drugs dealers, muggers, car jackers,
and people like Cho from getting guns.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

How would you enforce the laws differently than what the ATF is doing in
the lead article that Beerslug posted? Detail your scenario for the ATF
enforcing the current gun laws to keep drugs dealers, muggers, car jackers,
and people like Cho from getting guns.

in W*GS world , W*GS pulls out a gun kills all the Bad guys and we all live happily ever after

[W*GS]

Read the entire article, not just Beerslug's excerpt of it. NYC's tactics in some instances have not made the ATF happy.

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

in W*GS world , W*GS pulls out a gun kills all the Bad guys and we all live happily ever after

In your world, the "Bad guys" obey the law.

[Spider]

W*GS by day light a mild mannered weatherman ,but at night , when a cry for help is shouted , W*GS turns into ........Super Ted Nugent , Charlton Heston , crime fighter , pulling his gun and fighting Injustice ........

[Bronco Bob]

Originally Posted by W*GS

Read the entire article, not just Beerslug's excerpt of it. NYC's tactics in some instances have not made the ATF happy.

Is this directed to me? W*gs, please attempt to answers a question directly
once in your life. How would you enforce the laws differently than what the
ATF is trying to do in the article Beerslug posted. What does Bloomberg have
to do with the question I asked?

[W*GS]

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

How would you enforce the laws differently than what the ATF is doing in the lead article that Beerslug posted?

I wouldn't - however, we have to tread carefully so that the RKBA isn't violated. Would you feel comfortable with (say) a bookstore keeping a record of what books you've purchased for later perusal by the State?

Originally Posted by Bronco Bob

Detail your scenario for the ATF enforcing the current gun laws to keep drugs dealers, muggers, car jackers, and people like Cho from getting guns.

For one thing, the laws against straw purchases are already there - and if you read the article, you'll see that almost all gun shops enforce those laws. Also, if you believe that "drugs dealers, muggers, car jackers" depend on gun shops to get their guns, I've got a bridge to sell you.

As for Cho, that was a mistake in VA law. But again, we need to be careful - it's not clear to me that a given individual's interaction with a mental health facility or doctor automatically rescinds that individual's RKBA. In Cho's case, his mental problems should have prevented him from getting his weapons.