Trent Lott needs to be dealt with

[spdirty]

Arrogant son of a b****, who in the hell does he think he is? If I recall, many on talk radio were the only ones defending him during the aftermath of his stupid ass comment 3, 4 years ago. Just kills me the arrogance of these people. He can take his stupid southern gentleman schtick and shove it up his ass. He was a horrible majority leader and is a horrible senator. The people of Mississippi need to deal with this prick next time he's up for reelection.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/wa...q38uxSRhO18Guw

Senate Leaders Agree to Revive Immigration Bill
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By ROBERT PEAR and JEFF ZELENY
Published: June 15, 2007
WASHINGTON, June 14 — Senate Democratic and Republican leaders announced on Thursday that they had agreed on a way to revive a comprehensive immigration bill that was pulled off the Senate floor seven days ago.

The majority leader, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, and the minority leader, Mitch McConnell, Republican of Kentucky, said they expected the bill to return to the floor before the Fourth of July recess.

In a joint statement, Mr. Reid and Mr. McConnell said: “We met this evening with several of the senators involved in the immigration bill negotiations. Based on that discussion, the immigration bill will return to the Senate floor after completion of the energy bill.”

The immigration bill, ardently sought by President Bush, would make the biggest changes in immigration law and policy in more than 20 years.

It would increase border security, crack down on companies that employ illegal immigrants, establish a guest worker program and offer legal status to most of the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants.

The agreement does not guarantee that the bill will be approved by the Senate or become law.

Supporters of the bipartisan bill predict that some conservative Republicans will try to block a vote on final passage, because of concerns about the legalization program.

Predicting “procedural barriers,” Senator Charles E. Schumer of New York, the third-ranking member of the Senate Democratic leadership team, said, “Three or four senators will try to block every amendment.”

The House has held many hearings on immigration this year. House Democratic leaders, including Speaker Nancy Pelosi, have expressed concerns about major provisions of the Senate bill, including one that would give less weight to family ties in deciding who can immigrate to the United States.

A White House spokesman, Scott M. Stanzel, said, “We are encouraged by the announcement from Senate leaders that comprehensive immigration reform will be brought back up for consideration.”

The bill stalled on June 7, when supporters garnered just 45 of the 60 votes needed to end debate. Republican senators said that they had not been allowed to offer enough amendments.

Under the agreement reached on Thursday, the Senate will consider about 22 amendments, half from Republicans and half from Democrats.

Earlier in the day, trying to start the bill moving again in the Senate, Mr. Bush called for an immediate burst of $4.4 billion in spending to show that the government was committed to “securing this border once and for all.”

Senator Johnny Isakson, Republican of Georgia, described the call for $4.4 billion as “a good start.” But Mr. Isakson said Mr. Bush needed to do more to secure the border and to show that he was serious about enforcing immigration laws.

Comments by Republican senators on Thursday suggested that they were feeling the heat from conservative critics of the bill, who object to provisions offering legal status. The Republican whip, Trent Lott of Mississippi, who supports the bill, said: “Talk radio is running America. We have to deal with that problem.”

At some point, Mr. Lott said, Senate Republican leaders may try to rein in “younger guys who are huffing and puffing against the bill.”

Senator Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina, welcomed the president’s support for more spending on border security, but said, “There’s no reason why we should be forced to tie amnesty to it.”

Mr. Bush said the $4.4 billion would “come from the fines and penalties that we collect from those who have come to our country illegally” and apply for legal status.

Representative Duncan Hunter of California, a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, scorned such linkage.

“The idea that we will have border security only if it’s paid for by illegal immigrants is unacceptable,” Mr. Hunter said.

Matthew A. Towery, a political analyst in Atlanta who was once a campaign chairman for Newt Gingrich and is now chief executive of a polling firm, Insider Advantage, said: “Having George W. Bush come out and speak in favor of the immigration bill does not do any good for Republican senators. He just irritates the conservative base of the Republican Party, which has abandoned him on this issue.”

A new proposal floated on Thursday in an effort to deter the hiring of illegal immigrants would put biometric identifiers into Social Security cards. That change would make the cards more difficult to forge and counterfeit, Mr. Schumer said.

[ChargerChuck]

Originally Posted by spdirty

[B]Comments by Republican senators on Thursday suggested that they were feeling the heat from conservative critics of the bill, who object to provisions offering legal status. The Republican whip, Trent Lott of Mississippi, who supports the bill, said: “Talk radio is running America. We have to deal with that problem.”

Republican hypocrites, what a turnaround in Faux News America.

Isn't it interesting now how many Republicans (Bush backers) now claim to be independent voters?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by spdirty

Arrogant son of a b****, who in the hell does he think he is? If I recall, many on talk radio were the only ones defending him during the aftermath of his stupid ass comment 3, 4 years ago. Just kills me the arrogance of these people. He can take his stupid southern gentleman schtick and shove it up his ass. He was a horrible majority leader and is a horrible senator. The people of Mississippi need to deal with this prick next time he's up for reelection.

Whoa!

You rock, dude.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Originally Posted by ChargerChuck

Isn't it interesting now now how many Republicans (Bush backers) now claim to be independent voters?

Yep.

Watching them leap off the bandwagon in droves has been quite amusing.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by L.A. BRONCOS FAN

Yep.

Watching them leap off the bandwagon in droves has been quite amusing.

Us conservatives didn't leave the GOP. The GOP left us.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by spdirty

Us conservatives didn't leave the GOP. The GOP left us.

found out DixieCrats /Neo cons suck ass , Dems found this out back in the 60's
these are a dangerous bunch ......

[Spider]

Talk show host have gone over the top , Michelle Malkin told O'Reilly she would turn in a neighbor if she thought he was an illegal ...... even if he held down a job , didnt commit any crimes , raising a family , Michelle Maulkin and her ilk are very dangerous people , boarding on the lie of when we locked up Japanese Americans in WW2 .......
Tom Tancredo is beating a drum that is close to a Pandora's box , Lets dont let fear do our thinking for us , let us temper justice with mercy and not engage in another Salem witch hunt .............

[mosca]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Talk show host have gone over the top , Michelle Malkin told O'Reilly she would turn in a neighbor if she thought he was an illegal ...... even if he held down a job , didnt commit any crimes , raising a family , Michelle Maulkin and her ilk are very dangerous people , boarding on the lie of when we locked up Japanese Americans in WW2 .......

Somewhat of an oxymoron.

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Talk show host have gone over the top , Michelle Malkin told O'Reilly she would turn in a neighbor if she thought he was an illegal ...... even if he held down a job , didnt commit any crimes , raising a family , Michelle Maulkin and her ilk are very dangerous people , boarding on the lie of when we locked up Japanese Americans in WW2 .......
Tom Tancredo is beating a drum that is close to a Pandora's box , Lets dont let fear do our thinking for us , let us temper justice with mercy and not engage in another Salem witch hunt .............

They already did commit a crime coming here illegally.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

They already did commit a crime coming here illegally.

Not a criminal offense , just a civil disobedience ........so there is no crime ,snatched that hambone right off the plate I did , now if they reenter then it could be a felony ...........

[Spider]

So the part you put in bold is wrong , but then i already knew that ...... educating yourself on this issue is a must ..........
90% of what you hear about illegals is nothing more then the salem witch hunts ......

[Spider]

Of course the hardliners wont tell you this , the Illegal is their new boogie man ...... they have committed no crime , they have broke no laws , but Maulkin talks out of her ass cause her mouth should know better ........ and now you also know better

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Not a criminal offense , just a civil disobedience ........so there is no crime ,snatched that hambone right off the plate I did , now if they reenter then it could be a felony ...........

It's a federal crime. Although most are charged with a civil offense, or just "unlawful presence." It's easier to charge them with that so it doesn't back up our detention centers. Basically we're too lazy to enforce our own laws.

[DBruleU]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Of course the hardliners wont tell you this , the Illegal is their new boogie man ...... they have committed no crime , they have broke no laws , but Maulkin talks out of her ass cause her mouth should know better ........ and now you also know better

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME
Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees. Ý

Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

It's a federal crime. Although most are charged with a civil offense, or just "unlawful presence." It's easier to charge them with that so it doesn't back up our detention centers. Basically we're too lazy to enforce our own laws.

when they reenter it is a federal crime , 1 st offense is a civil matter ....... read up on it ,Clinton blocked a bill making it a federal crime back in the 90's ......... They Broke no laws`so therefore they are not criminals ..............

[Spider]

Originally Posted by DBruleU

http://www.americanpatrol.com/REFERENCE/isacrime.html

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION IS NOT A VICTIMLESS CRIME
Apologists for illegal immigration like to paint it as a victimless crime. But in fact, illegal immigration causes substantial harm to American citizens and legal immigrants, particularly those in the most vulnerable sectors of our population--the poor, minorities, and children.

Illegal immigration causes an enormous drain on public funds. The seminal study of the costs of immigration by the National Academy of Sciences found that the taxes paid by immigrants do not cover the cost of services received by them. We cannot provide high quality education, health care, and retirement security for our own people if we continue to bring in endless numbers of poor, unskilled immigrants.

Additionally, job competition by waves of illegal immigrants willing to work at substandard wages and working conditions depresses the wages of American workers, hitting hardest at minority workers and those without high school degrees. Ý

Illegal immigration also contributes to the dramatic population growth overwhelming communities across America--crowding school classrooms, consuming already limited affordable housing, and straining precious natural resources like water, energy, and forestland.

Bullshít thats just a op ed piece and scare tactic , most Undocumented workers ( done calling them illegals ) are working , Iraq war is more of a drain on our resources then undocumented workers

[Spider]

****ing Wal Mart and their dirty assed tactic of hiring a guy for 34 hours a week calling him part time , so they dont have to provide healthcare and low wages forcing Workers on public assistance is worse then any undocumented worker .........

[mosca]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Not a criminal offense , just a civil disobedience ........so there is no crime ,snatched that hambone right off the plate I did , now if they reenter then it could be a felony ...........

I understand what you're saying with the Salem Witch Hunt comparison. I'd rather not see this country go that way, and don't think it has to. No need for a paranoid culture reminicent of the Stasi with neighbors snitching on neighbors. What's required is enforcement of the laws. When illegals are encountered by law enforcement, instead of being let go (as happens all too often), they are deported.

But ... not a criminal offense? Illegal immigrants broke this country's immigration laws laws by entering and/or staying in the country. Not civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is a method of protest pioneered by Thoreau, and practiced by Ghandhi and MLK, among others.

[Spider]

Originally Posted by mosca

I understand what you're saying with the Salem Witch Hunt comparison. I'd rather not see this country go that way, and don't think it has to. No need for a paranoid culture reminicent of the Stasi with neighbors snitching on neighbors. What's required is enforcement of the laws. When illegals are encountered by law enforcement, instead of being let go (as happens all too often), they are deported.

But ... not a criminal offense? Illegal immigrants broke this country's immigration laws laws by entering and/or staying in the country. Not civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is a method of protest pioneered by Thoreau, and practiced by Ghandhi and MLK, among others.

maybe but it is a civil offense , Civil disobedience is what it is , If one is caught he is detained and deported , if he comes back then it is a criminal offense , so if one is disobeying a civil ruling , then what else can you call it besides civil disobedience ?

[mosca]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

maybe but it is a civil offense , Civil disobedience is what it is , If one is caught he is detained and deported , if he comes back then it is a criminal offense , so if one is disobeying a civil ruling , then what else can you call it besides civil disobedience ?

If you wanna call it that, fine, the phrase 'civil disobedience' just brings to mind other things, that's all.

As for the criminal/civil thing, if they entered the country illegally (which many of these people did), they are in violation of criminal law. Those not caught in the actual process of entering are lucky that's its a civil matter, but like you said, after being detained and deported, if they are caught when they try coming back it will be considered a criminal offense.

At the end of the day, laws are being broken whether they be criminal or civil.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Bullshít thats just a op ed piece and scare tactic , most Undocumented workers ( done calling them illegals ) are working , Iraq war is more of a drain on our resources then undocumented workers

Naw **** that...If your going for the bull**** PC rhetoric, instead of calling them what they are, call them 'undocumented Americans' like ole Teddy does.

[spdirty]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

found out DixieCrats /Neo cons suck ass , Dems found this out back in the 60's
these are a dangerous bunch ......

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Talk show host have gone over the top , Michelle Malkin told O'Reilly she would turn in a neighbor if she thought he was an illegal ...... even if he held down a job , didnt commit any crimes , raising a family , Michelle Maulkin and her ilk are very dangerous people , boarding on the lie of when we locked up Japanese Americans in WW2 .......
Tom Tancredo is beating a drum that is close to a Pandora's box , Lets dont let fear do our thinking for us , let us temper justice with mercy and not engage in another Salem witch hunt .............

WTF are you trying to say Spider, that Michelle and Tancredo are now neocons? I thought Bush and his ilk were the neocons. And doon't say that Bush and Tancredo are one and the same. I bet if Bush ever tried to meet with Tancredo he would tell Bush to **** off.

Anyway, I don't find what Michelle did to be horribly awful, hell, I'd bet even LABF and slug would do the same thing. The witch hunt comparison is total bull****, Tancredo has always advocated that you don't need to massively deport all illegals, just deportation through attrition. They can't get a job, or benefits they will leave themselves. And what you don't understand is that most of the people are not so much pissed at the illegals themselves, we understand what most of their motives are, what we are more pissed off about than anything is the broken promises of '64 and '86, as well as '06 when that 700 mile fence that was approved was defunded, and the fact that we know the gov't has absolutely no intention to enforce the laws of the land.

Sh*t, wonder how you'd feel spider if you decided to buy a new rig or a bigger house for your family and you found out that your identity was stolen and your credit all screwed up...so one of these 'undocumented workers' can get ahead for themselves. Happens all the time my friend...just another one of the undesirable effects of illegal immigration.

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Not a criminal offense , just a civil disobedience ........so there is no crime ,snatched that hambone right off the plate I did , now if they reenter then it could be a felony ...........

Sorry, Kemo Sabe, but you and I would face prison time for tax evasion, identity theft and possesion/ use of forged documents.

So, please don't give me that "load of ****", I'm not buying. If they pass an amnesty bill, I want a couple of "get out of jail free cards" for future use!

[TailgateNut]

Originally Posted by §Pide®

Bullshít thats just a op ed piece and scare tactic , most Undocumented workers ( done calling them illegals ) are working , Iraq war is more of a drain on our resources then undocumented workers

I call BS on your response. The article Dbrule posted hits the nail square on the head. Just log onto any school district site in the Dever area and you will see the amount of growth of the hispanic population in schools and the amount of free education/lunches provided at the expense of the "tax-paying" american puplic. When my son went to elementary school in Westminster (over 10 years ago) it was predominately caucasian with less than 5% free "hand-outs". That figure is now at almost 50%. When my daughter attended a couple of years ago we had to provide enough school supplies each year to supply at least 3-4 students. Why is this? Because the majority of mexican immigrants are like ****ing rabbits, they have more children than they can provide for with their income, knowing that we "the wonderful US will take up the slack with social welfare". Why do I and other law abiding citizens have to take up the slack, just so YOU can buy cheap lettuce.

The same issue is apparant in the neighborhoods. When I first moved here, 90+% of the homes were single family occupied, whereas now you drive through the various neighborhoods and find homes with multiple families living in single family residences. They can't afford to buy a home on a single income, so they pack several families into one home. Being in an Un-incorporated area there is little I can do other than realize one of the reasons my property values are declining are the ILLEGALS who have migrated their asses into My Neighborhood, My Life and MY WALLET.

So you can sit back and enjoy your unaffected life in rural Wyoming and keep fighting for "their cause" until they make their way into your LIFE and WALLET!

Their existance in our schools is one reason our educators are struggling to meet the academic requirements. Their are having to teach "english as a second language" in addition to their regular curriculum. It is, in fact hurting the overall educational process.

Take off the DAMN BLINDERS, and see the monster which is ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

It is estimated that approximately 220-250 thousand ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are currently in Colorado . The current population of Colorado is 4.7 million which means that the ILLEGAL portion equals 5% (+-) of the overall population. I personally think that the govement estimate has been suppressed to minimize the actuall #s. In addition, I'm sure that when the sensus questionaires were sent to the homes of ILLEGALS, they honestly answered and returned them to the goverment !

Look at the Number for California, Texas and NY and you'll be amazed! Then multiply those numbers by at leats 2 (my low estimate of Lying).

The goverment wants us to believe there are 20 million ILLEGALS in the US. I think they are Full Of ****!

[Spider]

Originally Posted by mosca

If you wanna call it that, fine, the phrase 'civil disobedience' just brings to mind other things, that's all.

fair enough .....

As for the criminal/civil thing, if they entered the country illegally (which many of these people did), they are in violation of criminal law. Those not caught in the actual process of entering are lucky that's its a civil matter, but like you said, after being detained and deported, if they are caught when they try coming back it will be considered a criminal offense.

At the end of the day, laws are being broken whether they be criminal or civil.

here is where we disagree , you cant lump Criminal with civil ...........